AMT morale in the toilet

[Hopeful]

So have no independent confirmation on the $400 million and someone "in his office" told you? Did this person see his payslip?

So would you trade your union representation and seniority protection for his salary and bonus? Do you want his responsibility or lack of OT pay potential? If not, you shouldn't complain.

Nice try,
Someone in his office told me of his bonus last year.
My nephew who is with a rather large financial frim on Wall Street knows about the AMR execs. bonus.

HIS RESPONSIBILTY?

Yea he has a high school diploma, and that's it!

I have no desire, nor have I ever had, over the past 30 years to go into management. I never complained about what ANYONE earned. Nor did I ever care.

It is only since the concessions we gave back, that my distaste for the greedy ones has blossomed.

Who do you think feels the effects of concessions more?

Arpey and CO with their mid to high six figure incomes and millions in stock? Or the person working on the floor?

 

[TWU informer]

So have no independent confirmation on the $400 million and someone "in his office" told you? Did this person see his payslip?

So would you trade your union representation and seniority protection for his salary and bonus? Do you want his responsibility or lack of OT pay potential? If not, you shouldn't complain.

Sure, I can hire a few consulting firms, PR firms, and other outside services to run the company for his salary and bonus, and would gladly accept the responsibility to hire them also. Sign me Up!

Our-pay has even attempted to recruit the union leaders to run the company on top of the outside consulting firms. I get the feeling the man doesn't really know how to run the airline, so he hires and recruits outsiders, or anyone else willing to step forward to do it for him.

 

[Oneflyer]

Nice try,
Someone in his office told me of his bonus last year.
My nephew who is with a rather large financial frim on Wall Street knows about the AMR execs. bonus.

HIS RESPONSIBILTY?

Yea he has a high school diploma, and that's it!

I have no desire, nor have I ever had, over the past 30 years to go into management. I never complained about what ANYONE earned. Nor did I ever care.

It is only since the concessions we gave back, that my distaste for the greedy ones has blossomed.

Who do you think feels the effects of concessions more?

Arpey and CO with their mid to high six figure incomes and millions in stock? Or the person working on the floor?

I find it difficult to believe that AA has any level 6s with only a high school degree.

And to who feels the effects more, quite frankly it doesn't matter. Say one AMT has a 10 million dollar trust fund from a dead aunt and one has 4 kids and a disabled wife, who was effected more by the consessions? Would you suggest you change their salary?

The fact that management gets bonuses doesn't change whether or not the consesssions were economically necessary. They were absolutely necessary.

As for AMRs executive bonus plan, the plan is flawed terribly and I would never purchase AMR stock, partially because of the bonus plan. Ultimately, if shareholders don't like the plan, they will sell the stock, which will make the plan worthless, because it is a purely stock price based plan.

 

[Hopeful]

I find it difficult to believe that AA has any level 6s with only a high school degree.

And to who feels the effects more, quite frankly it doesn't matter. Say one AMT has a 10 million dollar trust fund from a dead aunt and one has 4 kids and a disabled wife, who was effected more by the consessions? Would you suggest you change their salary?

The fact that management gets bonuses doesn't change whether or not the consesssions were economically necessary. They were absolutely necessary.

As for AMRs executive bonus plan, the plan is flawed terribly and I would never purchase AMR stock, partially because of the bonus plan. Ultimately, if shareholders don't like the plan, they will sell the stock, which will make the plan worthless, because it is a purely stock price based plan.

You examples are ridiculous!

First of all, a Level 6 is CRAP!
Do you know how many mechanics I started with over 30 years ago moved up to become managers and even directors with nothing more that high school diplomas??????????
Most graduated Aviation High School and then obtained their A&P certificates. Some people are so hung up on this LEVEL bull crap..
Some of these people deserved their promotions while others
couldn't tie their shoe laces without a manual, but were "liked" by upper management!

Now, to your example about one mechanic with a large trust fund and another with a disabled wife...

This has nothing to do with OBSCENE executive bonuses.

I bet if an executive with an OBSCENE salary had a disabled wife, that EXECUTIVE could well afford round the clock care for his spouse.



So let me get this straight...I, as a mechanic, lost about $120,000 over the life of the six year concessionary contract, but the greedy executives have no shame in accepting thousands and in some cases, millions in bonus pay?

Do you realize AMR is still $19-20 billion in debt?

Do you know what D. Martinez, VP of line maintenance told the local presidents? THE BONUS payout is managements and we intend to take every cent of it BECAUSE WE HAVE A CONTRACT!

You do knw what happened to our contract don't you, oneflyer?

 

[Wretched Wrench]

I find it difficult to believe that AA has any level 6s with only a high school degree.

And that shows how uninformed you are. My station alone is an example. Has been for years.

Oh, wait. You said only a high school degree. Does A&P school count? How about "some college"? Junior college or trade school? We all know there are ways to pad your education credentials.............Or do you mean, "I find it difficult to believe that AA has any level 6s without a bachelor's degree from an accredited, real, brick and mortar school"? I am reluctant to name names publicly, but most assuredly, there is a passel of level 6s without brick and mortar bachelor's degrees.

I will tell you that many of them would benefit from some organizational behavior and human relations courses. One of my sons is at Stanford Graduate School of Business right now, and is having his eyes opened. The same stuff is being taught at lesser schools, as well, and has been for years.

 

[eolesen]

I find it difficult to believe that AA has any level 6s with only a high school degree.

I don't find it difficult at all. There are more than a few who started out as FSC's, res/ticket agents, FA's, etc. and wound up working their way up into a L6.

Now, if you're telling me there's an entry level L6 with just a high school diploma, I'd be shocked unless they also had 15-20 years of work experience relevant to the position.

As for AMRs executive bonus plan, the plan is flawed terribly and I would never purchase AMR stock, partially because of the bonus plan. Ultimately, if shareholders don't like the plan, they will sell the stock, which will make the plan worthless, because it is a purely stock price based plan.

I recently sold my last batch of options, in part because I'm also not pleased with how AMR's board and executive committee didn't learn much from last years debacle, but mostly because I'm a greedy bastard and wanted to cash out while it was riding in the 30's....

 

[flyastrojets]

I know of at least one Level 8 who was working on their degree...not sure if they completed it or not.

Back in the RDU hub days, the last Level 8 hub director only had a high school diploma. And if you look through the executive bios on AA.com, I think you'll find at least one senior officer who "attended" or "studied" at a certain college, which I read to mean did not graduate. However, that is only pure speculation on my part.

But back to the topic at hand.... I only worked at Eagle and then AA from 93 to 04. I spent 4 years in the AA M&E organization. I don't ever remember a time in those 11 years when AMT morale was what would meet my definition of good, only less p*ssed off as opposed to more p*ssed off.

I suppose if I knew what the answer was, I'd still be at AA. Having sat in both seats, I'm no management apologist or union sympathizer (in my mind at least). But something has gone seriously off course at AA in the last year. I had really hoped that senior management would learn a lesson last year after the bonus plan details came out, but I guess I was wrong.

While I don't think anyone has a cure for the fringe element of rabble-rousers out there, I believe that doing the right thing in regards to the PUP (or whatever it's called) plan last year could've won over a lot of the fence sitters and wait-and-see folks. Instead, we still have a flawed compensation plan in place for a very limited number of people, and enough p*ss and venom being banted about to launch a space shuttle. In conversing with several of my former colleagues (none of whom I would consider to be angry unionists), there is quite a bit of frustration in all work groups and even a good bit of middle and lower management (translation: the people who actually have to work with frontline folks who get the work done) about how things have turned out.

Now, there's a lot more than this stupid bonus plan that needs to be fixed, but I surely think that would be a good place to start.

 

[TWU informer]

flyastrojets,

What on Earth are you talking about?

Our-Pay hired an outside firm to "repair" damaged labor relations.

There is nobody disgruntled, everyone is happy now because Overland Resource Group says so.

We really don't mind that we cannot pay our bills, we have very little paid time off left, and our out-of-pocket expense for medical continues to rise.

Employees at AA are greatful that we did not hit the Bankruptcy Court and lose our jobs, thus any bone-us the higher ups get is all just the price we have to pay to remain slaves to the unreplaceable AMR Paycheck.

Heck I might even make a New Years resolution to volunteer to participate in one of those Overland JLT's, PLT's, or BLT's and get into some serious bootlicking instead complaining about what I used to have.

Afterall, Saddam is gone, Bin Laden has not been heard from lately, the Democrats won back control of Congress, and Our-Pay will not be leaving anytime soon for another company as long as we lick his boot. We really stuck it to Carty for shafting us, and look at him now over at Dell. We showed him!

I fail to see where anything is wrong at AA? 😉

 

[Wretched Wrench]

I know of at least one Level 8 who was working on their degree...not sure if they completed it or not.

Back in the RDU hub days, the last Level 8 hub director only had a high school diploma. And if you look through the executive bios on AA.com, I think you'll find at least one senior officer who "attended" or "studied" at a certain college, which I read to mean did not graduate. However, that is only pure speculation on my part.

But back to the topic at hand.... I only worked at Eagle and then AA from 93 to 04. I spent 4 years in the AA M&E organization. I don't ever remember a time in those 11 years when AMT morale was what would meet my definition of good, only less p*ssed off as opposed to more p*ssed off.

I suppose if I knew what the answer was, I'd still be at AA. Having sat in both seats, I'm no management apologist or union sympathizer (in my mind at least). But something has gone seriously off course at AA in the last year. I had really hoped that senior management would learn a lesson last year after the bonus plan details came out, but I guess I was wrong.

While I don't think anyone has a cure for the fringe element of rabble-rousers out there, I believe that doing the right thing in regards to the PUP (or whatever it's called) plan last year could've won over a lot of the fence sitters and wait-and-see folks. Instead, we still have a flawed compensation plan in place for a very limited number of people, and enough p*ss and venom being banted about to launch a space shuttle. In conversing with several of my former colleagues (none of whom I would consider to be angry unionists), there is quite a bit of frustration in all work groups and even a good bit of middle and lower management (translation: the people who actually have to work with frontline folks who get the work done) about how things have turned out.

Now, there's a lot more than this stupid bonus plan that needs to be fixed, but I surely think that would be a good place to start.

I think you have called it pretty accurately. I would only add that some of the "fringe element of rabble-rousers out there" were not always that way. They got that way gradually, and can be brought back into the fold gradually. Many of our militants became less bitter and more reasonable with our 91 contract with its improvements. Of course, they denied the company or the TWU any credit for it, giving full credit to AMFA, which might have been accurate. But, nevertheless, improved benefits and pay mitigated the scowl even if it did not put a smile on their face.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ----- Maybe someone should start a new thread called "What do you really expect form our new contract next year?"---- :unsure:

 

[AMFAMAN]

<_< ----- Maybe someone should start a new thread called "What do you really expect form our new contract next year?"---- :unsure:

Why waste the web space, you know the answer....Their going to reach into the compAAny's pocket and pull out a big "Just be happy you have a job brother." 😛

 

[Hopeful]

We are going to get JACK SQUAT!

Do you know why?

Because THEY DON'T HAVE TO GIVE US ANYTHING BECAUSE WE HAVE A WEAK UNION WHO WON'T DEMAND ANYTHING!

 

[MCI transplant]

We are going to get JACK SQUAT!

Do you know why?

Because THEY DON'T HAVE TO GIVE US ANYTHING BECAUSE WE HAVE A WEAK UNION WHO WON'T DEMAND ANYTHING!

<_< ---- So if we had the AMFA vote today, do you feel it would turn out the same way? :huh:

 

[Bear96]

We are going to get JACK SQUAT!

Do you know why?

Because THEY DON'T HAVE TO GIVE US ANYTHING BECAUSE WE HAVE A WEAK UNION WHO WON'T DEMAND ANYTHING!

Why should airline management listen to unions anymore?

Most unions have made it abundantly clear that they are no longer willing to strike for anything. The only one to stick its neck out made it abundantly clear that their so-called "skilled labor" is in fact easily replaceable with people just as "skilled" (or at least "good enough" -- i.e., "qualified") but who are willing to work for less.

 

[AMFAMAN]

<_< ---- So if we had the AMFA vote today, do you feel it would turn out the same way? :huh:

That would be a good question for MCI and Tulsa, the rest of us still are ready for a change. 😉