AMT morale in the toilet

[Wretched Wrench]

SRPs and OSM were nothing more than a pilot program to replace A&P mechanics with non-A&Ps. They are called AMTS just like us. Its all part of the plan to ease the transition away from independantly liscenced A&P mechanics to company controlled airman certificates.

Actually, AA had unlicensed mechanics long before the advent of SRPs and OSMs. Lots and lots of unlicensed workers at TUL, for example. AA believed that the combination of the demographics and the large number of unlicensed workers gave them a more compliant workforce.

Certainly, there were other financial incentives provided by OK and the city of Tulsa, but the move from a heavily unionized culture in New York to the _______ culture in OK was of at least equal importance. Friendly (and cheaper) judges didn't hurt, either.

The SRP/OSM program was just their way of paying unlicensed people less.

It's all about cheap labor.

 

[Bob Owens]

Actually, AA had unlicensed mechanics long before the advent of SRPs and OSMs. Lots and lots of unlicensed workers at TUL, for example. AA believed that the combination of the demographics and the large number of unlicensed workers gave them a more compliant workforce.

Certainly, there were other financial incentives provided by OK and the city of Tulsa, but the move from a heavily unionized culture in New York to the _______ culture in OK was of at least equal importance. Friendly (and cheaper) judges didn't hurt, either.

The SRP/OSM program was just their way of paying unlicensed people less.

It's all about cheap labor.

I agree.

Unliscened mechanics were not a problem because they recieved mechanics pay, the only thing they didnt get was liscence pay.

There wasnt much of an advantage to having an unliscenced mechanic vs an A&P because they pay difference was minimal. In the case of some workers it was impractical to require an A&P-welders, machinists, etc. Some of those classifications were underpaid relative to their peers outside the industry so there is no way they could be accused of providing downward wage pressure. However with the advent of SRPs and OSMs, where the targeted source was unskilled workers the opposite is true.

With the SRP/OSM FAR66 pogram the object is to replace A&Ps with lower paid AMTs that will have (company issued)FAA certificates. It will actually be sold as a tightening of qualifications instead of what it really is.

 

[High Iron]

Bob Owens spake:

If they couldnt get mechanics the airlines would simply try to change standards, push through part 66 and do away with A&Ps. They would then claim that the government changed liscencing proceedures and that all the people working on their aircraft are certified by the FAA.

Ding ding!! The dirty little secret. As they become "jobs Americans don't want to do" due to the falling wages, that's the next course of action, though it's been fluidly morphing that way for a while now. Change the rules. Why not? We've got the best government money can buy. The whole diluting of oversight for standards would be effectively "laundered", and all the peripherally informed ( at best! ) minions and other apathetic dunderheads will keep aping the mantra "...Well if the FAA says they're safe, then they're safe...."

 

[Hopeful]

Bob Owens spake:

If they couldnt get mechanics the airlines would simply try to change standards, push through part 66 and do away with A&Ps. They would then claim that the government changed liscencing proceedures and that all the people working on their aircraft are certified by the FAA.

Ding ding!! The dirty little secret. As they become "jobs Americans don't want to do" due to the falling wages, that's the next course of action, though it's been fluidly morphing that way for a while now. Change the rules. Why not? We've got the best government money can buy. The whole diluting of oversight for standards would be effectively "laundered", and all the peripherally informed ( at best! ) minions and other apathetic dunderheads will keep aping the mantra "...Well if the FAA says they're safe, then they're safe...."

There will be a shortage of A&P's down the road. After all, who the hell wants to get into this business.
Believe it or not, there was a time when the aircraft mechanic was considered to be the "top" of the blue collar work force in terms of pay and prestige. But deregulation coupled with anti union airline management and government changed it all. "IT'S TIME TO DESTROY THE EVEIL GREEDY UNIONS, BUT NOT AIRLINE EXECUTIVES."

The FAA is a JOKE! Here, you have an agency that is supposed to ensure airline safety AND promote air travel.
Well, how can you promote air travel without enabling lower airfares and how you can you enable lower airfares WITHOUT
lowering costs AND how can you lower costs without attacking labor?

 

[High Iron]

There will be a shortage of A&P's down the road. After all, who the hell wants to get into this business.
Believe it or not, there was a time when the aircraft mechanic was considered to be the "top" of the blue collar work force in terms of pay and prestige. But deregulation coupled with anti union airline management and government changed it all. "IT'S TIME TO DESTROY THE EVEIL GREEDY UNIONS, BUT NOT AIRLINE EXECUTIVES."

The FAA is a JOKE! Here, you have an agency that is supposed to ensure airline safety AND promote air travel.
Well, how can you promote air travel without enabling lower airfares and how you can you enable lower airfares WITHOUT
lowering costs AND how can you lower costs without attacking labor?

...Which is why I'm not exactly bullish on the future prospects of that profession. Shortage nothwithstanding. The "shortage" will be filled by a combination of "guest workers", outsourcing, and a broader definition 😉 of just who is qualified.

 

[Wretched Wrench]

There will be a shortage of A&P's down the road. After all, who the hell wants to get into this business.

There will always be people to occupy the positions. There is an unlimited supply of cheap labor streaming across our borders and reproducing. The supply of bodies will allow the airlines to lower wages and requirements and the positions will be filled.

No hay problema.

 

[eolesen]

The fact that you are here means you havent gotten over it completely yet.

Hey, I've still got to have a hobby, and this is a lot more fun and less expensive than building model railroads, collecting beer cans, or spending my weekends at an Indian casino.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

While I do not disagree that airline managements industry wide would like nothing more than alot of cheap un-licensed maintenance, there seems to be some confusion about FAR Part 66.

Point of clarification.

The previous Part 66 NPRM did not seek to replace A&Ps with un-licensed workers.

The Part 66 NPRM introduced the AMT(T) and ARS(1-2-3) classifications to replace the A&P.

The training requirements for certification under the NPRM actually increased as compared to todays A&P requirements. Additionally, the was a recurrent training requirement (ala pilots) to keep your certificate active.

While the NPRM addressed IA and instructors requirements differently the cross over to AMT from A&P was as follows.


AMT = A&P General Aviation/Experimental

AMT(T) = A&P Commercial ie heavy transport-turbine

ARS = R&E/ Avionics techs the (1-2-3) was a determination on the portability of the certificate. Some were company based while others(like the FCC) went with the mechanic.


The revision was shot down in the NPRM phase and FAR Part 66 was never officially written. However, certain OSVs and MROs bastardized the term and started applying it to "anyone" who performed any sort of maintenance on an aircraft.


If FAR Part 66 had actually been adopted, it would've been a great benefit to A&P(AMTs).

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

...Which is why I'm not exactly bullish on the future prospects of that profession. Shortage nothwithstanding. The "shortage" will be filled by a combination of "guest workers", outsourcing, and a broader definition 😉 of just who is qualified.

Your comment will happen only if people like yourself do nothing to prevent it. The time has come for informing the public about what a skilled AMT is/does. The unions should be leading this fight. But alas AMFA is the ONLY union that is fighting for AMTs.

 

[Bill]

Your comment will happen only if people like yourself do nothing to prevent it. The time has come for informing the public about what a skilled AMT is/does. The unions should be leading this fight. But alas AMFA is the ONLY union that is fighting for AMTs.

Alas.....amfa "disregarded" more than half of their AMTs and pointed them right towards the unemployment line.

SOME FRIGGIN' FIGHT ALRIGHT!!!

What's their "fight" now?????

 

[High Iron]

Your comment will happen only if people like yourself do nothing to prevent it. The time has come for informing the public about what a skilled AMT is/does. The unions should be leading this fight. But alas AMFA is the ONLY union that is fighting for AMTs.

Short of starting a revolution 😀 , there's not much that can be done directly. Seriously though, the problem has been incremental in the making, and thus won't go away in one fell-swoop either. This is to say that the way to change this is to change the political landscape. Don't be apathetic about government/politics. Pressure your representatives and senators to enforce immigration laws and other wedge-issues. A populist sentiment is growing amongst the middle class and it's giving the monied elites the heebee-jeebies, even as they scoff or rationalize away the fact we're being had. Of course you know it's not just the airline employees under assault, and as discontent spreads it becomes more recognizable that the "rain" people are feeling is urine from above, and that economic concerns will finally edge out the fluff of sports and other pop-culture BS that was distracting so many from the important issues.

Common sense, and a bit of tactical shrewdness would dictate that the best way for the economic elites to preserve their position would be for the middle class to feel reasonably secure and/or content. Not a good time to burn bridges just yet.......

 

[Wretched Wrench]

.....economic concerns will finally edge out the fluff of sports and other pop-culture BS that was distracting so many from the important issues.

Kinda like Juvenal's Bread and Circuses, huh?

 

[Bob Owens]

Kinda like Juvenal's Bread and Circuses, huh?

I dont know if its that or the fact that the truth is too painful for most to deal with, easier to loose oneself in the tube watching sports etc.

 

[High Iron]

Kinda like Juvenal's Bread and Circuses, huh?

Only the time period has changed. Humans haven't. ( much )

 

[Hackman]

Alas.....amfa "disregarded" more than half of their AMTs and pointed them right towards the unemployment line.

SOME FRIGGIN' FIGHT ALRIGHT!!!

What's their "fight" now?????

How has AMFA "disregarded" half their AMT's Billdo??? By not agreeing to draconian concessions demanded by NWA management???

I know, they need to follow the twu track record of 25 years of concessions for jobs. How many people does the twu have on layoff after the massive concessions of 2003???

Another question for you bubba; When is the twu going to make the compAAny "Show us the Shared Sacrifice"???I guess they already have, with PLI, CI, JLT, and "pajama parties".

Or was that just a another slogan on a twu bubba club t-shirt??? :blink: 🙄 :blink: