AMT morale in the toilet

[Wretched Wrench]

I guess AA pays you by the word. At first I thought you just didn't have a life.

 

[Hopeful]

Define how you are using "care" in this situation. I am aware of the dictinary definition, but in what ways do you want someone to show he "cares" in the sense you mean? Of course I care in the sense that it would be nice to see everyone make a gazillion dollars a year and live a life of leisure, with service providers available to cater to their every whim. But I also know enough about economics to know that that is an impossible dream (for example, who would the service providers be in that scenario?).

However, if you mean "care" in some other more active way, if the "working class" (and I would be interested in seeing your definition of that too -- what income level are you talking about?) isn't willing to do anything about their situation, then it means their situation isn't all that bad, or "the working class" is otherwise too lazy or complacent. If they don't care about their situation, why should anyone else?
Doesn't bother me in the slightest. I have trouble seeing how that will improve your situation, though, and so it seems rather pointless. Maybe you could turn that anger into something more productive, like going back to school to further your education so more job opportunities are available to you? Just a thought; it's your life.

And your theory also doesn't jive with the altruism I keep seeing posted here about how people "love" airplanes and the airline industry in an almost mystical way. Where's the love in your philosophy of destruction?

By the way, I no longer consider you to be "qualified" to be an airline mechanic. Someone who wants to destroy his employer is no longer fit to be working for that employer. Consider yourself replaceable by someone who is indeed qualified and willing to work for less than you do.

Airline management destroyed what once was a proud profession!
I am at the stage if my life, where AA could shutdown, and iI can still live comfortably. Thank you very much!

By the way, isn't it time for you to sharpen that pencil that you push and that helps you make a decent living?

What I really wish for you in the New Year, is for people like yourself, to be involved in an air disaster. You or your loved ones will be the first to head for the lawyers and courts looking for justice!

 

[Oneflyer]

Airline management destroyed what once was a proud profession!
I am at the stage if my life, where AA could shutdown, and iI can still live comfortably. Thank you very much!

By the way, isn't it time for you to sharpen that pencil that you push and that helps you make a decent living?

What I really wish for you in the New Year, is for people like yourself, to be involved in an air disaster. You or your loved ones will be the first to head for the lawyers and courts looking for justice!

You have issues that quite frankly a pay decrease didn't cause.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that after deregulation no one in the airline business makes as much money.

 

[Hopeful]

You have issues that quite frankly a pay decrease didn't cause.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that after deregulation no one in the airline business makes as much money.

Airline management created MANY issues airline workers have been forced to deal with.

And it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that airline EXECUTIVES ARE STILL GETTING COMPENSATED AS IF AIRLINE DEREGULATION NEVER HAPPENED!

 

[MCI transplant]

Follow along. This bit of melodrama has been tried before in this thread and found lacking.

AMTs do not "put their freedom" on the line every day. They, like anyone else, may risk their freedom if they are acting criminally (i.e., knowingly and willfully doing something wrong to harm someone else). But other than that, it is a misleading talking point dreamed up by some union rep desparate for attention.

<_< -----Why do you keep harping on a AMT's "freedom"? When you should be expounding on the fact that he may be putting the life's of you and yours on the line "Daily"!------ Like the man said, if a AMT screws up, you just don't pull over to the side of the road, at 32,000 FT., and call a tow truck! Yet you are willing to compromise Safety by pinching Penny's! Ever hear the saying,"You get what you pay for?" Well, this seems to be exactly the path you are advocating!---- Going to jail, after the fact, is the least of an AMT's worries, if he screws up!!!!!-----

 

[Hopeful]

<_< -----Why do you keep harping on a AMT's "freedom"? When you should be expounding on the fact that he may be putting the life's of you and yours on the line "Daily"!------ Like the man said, if a AMT screws up, you just don't pull over to the side of the road, at 32,000 FT., and call a tow truck! Yet you are willing to compromise Safety by pinching Penny's! Ever hear the saying,"You get what you pay for?" Well, this seems to be exactly the path you are advocating!---- Going to jail, after the fact, is the least of an AMT's worries, if he screws up!!!!!-----

Bear doesn't have a clue about FAR's!

 

[Bear96]

<_< -----Why do you keep harping on a AMT's "freedom"?

Follow along. 700UW brought up "freedom." It is others here who "harp" on BS like, "Every day poor innocent hard-working AMTs go to work, do nothing wrong, yet still end up thrown in jail for years on end, all because they want to make it safe for people to fly! (Sniff.)" (Yet no one can seem to actually provide a real example of something like that happening.) Break out the violins.

When you should be expounding on the fact that he may be putting the life's of you and yours on the line "Daily"!------Like the man said, if a AMT screws up, you just don't pull over to the side of the road, at 32,000 FT., and call a tow truck!

Gee, my hero.

(BTW, are you talking about the same AMTs who say they want to do what they can to drive customers away from AA? Which is it?)

If I drive down the road and stop at a red light and choose not to run over a pedestrian who is legally in the crosswalk and kill her, should that pedestrian kiss my feet and thank me?

Please, don't do me any favors. Just do your job. Just do what you are ogligated to do by law and by company policy in exchange for your paycheck. Get it?

Yet you are willing to compromise Safety by pinching Penny's! Ever hear the saying,"You get what you pay for?" Well, this seems to be exactly the path you are advocating!----

Oops, back to the reading comprehension issue, I see.

Please post where I said I am willing to compromise safety. (Hint: I never said or implied such a thing.)

If Mechanic A and Mechanic B are both qualified, and Mechanic A is willing to work for $30K/yr but Mechanic B insists on $60K, I will pick Mechanic A. If Mechanic C is NOT qualified but is willing to do the job for $20K, I will still go with Mechanic A -- EVEN THOUGH I HAVE TO PAY HIM MORE. See the diff?

Going to jail, after the fact, is the least of an AMT's worries, if he screws up!!!!!-----

Then why do y'all keep bringing up the "they might be thrown in jail" non-issue?

Bear doesn't have a clue about FAR's!

Yes, I obtained my commercial pilot and flight instructor certifications without ever hearing the term "FAR."

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Oops, back to the reading comprehension issue, I see.

Please post where I said I am willing to compromise safety. (Hint: I never said or implied such a thing.)

If Mechanic A and Mechanic B are both qualified, and Mechanic A is willing to work for $30K/yr but Mechanic B insists on $60K, I will pick Mechanic A. If Mechanic C is NOT qualified but is willing to do the job for $20K, I will still go with Mechanic A -- EVEN THOUGH I HAVE TO PAY HIM MORE. See the diff?

It seems the part thats lost on you is this...

Mechanic A is a new hire willing to work for less, but he has little practical experience.

Mechanic B is a 15-20 year mechanic, who knows the ins-outs/ups-downs of (pick your favorite Aircraft) and commands a higher wage.

BOTH are "qualified" ie licensed. However, they are NOT the same. Airlines want to outsource their experienced mechanic B for qualified mechanic A. As the outsourcing frenzy continues, airlines will simply continue seeking out the next OSV mechanic A,(who is "qualified" but willing to work for less), and continue the deterioration of their experience base, mechanic B.

You want to keep picking up mechanic A because hes qualified, and willing to work for less, it is of course your choice. Just not a particularly wise one.

Enjoy your flight.

 

[Hopeful]

Yes, I obtained my commercial pilot and flight instructor certifications without ever hearing the term "FAR."

I suppose only pilots are help accountable when people die!

I suppose only pilots are worth a six figure salary!

 

[Bear96]

It seems the part thats lost on you is this...

Mechanic A is a new hire willing to work for less, but he has little practical experience.

Mechanic B is a 15-20 year mechanic, who knows the ins-outs/ups-downs of (pick your favorite Aircraft) and commands a higher wage.

BOTH are "qualified" ie licensed. However, they are NOT the same. Airlines want to outsource their experienced mechanic B for qualified mechanic A. As the outsourcing frenzy continues, airlines will simply continue seeking out the next OSV mechanic A,(who is "qualified" but willing to work for less), and continue the deterioration of their experience base, mechanic B.

You want to keep picking up mechanic A because hes qualified, and willing to work for less, it is of course your choice. Just not a particularly wise one.

Enjoy your flight.

What if A is as equally experienced as, or even more experienced than, B, and the wage A is requesting is comparable to other people of A's and B's experience, but B just refuses to acknowledge that his expectations are unrealistic in today's world?

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

What if A is as equally experienced as, or even more experienced than, B, and the wage A is requesting is comparable to other people of A's and B's experience, but B just refuses to acknowledge that his expectations are unrealistic in today's world?

"What if....."

If I was to entertain your question as realistic, then yes, you'd have a point. That said, I think its rather obvious how unrealistic your premise is.

 

[Bear96]

"What if....."

If I was to entertain your question as realistic, then yes, you'd have a point. That said, I think its rather obvious how unrealistic your premise is.

Unrealistic? I think AMFA's pathetic situation over at NW shows just how out of touch the Mechanic B's of the industry are concerning the reality of the market value of their skills.

 

[MCI transplant]

Unrealistic? I think AMFA's pathetic situation over at NW shows just how out of touch the Mechanic B's of the industry are concerning the reality of the market value of their skills.

<_< ---- You weren't around in 1966 were you? We had five of our Major Airline Mechanics Unions go out on strike at the same time! Guess what! Brought this country to a standstill! Now I know the Government wouldn't let this happen again, but it does illustrate a point about value of skill!

 

[Bear96]

<_< ---- You weren't around in 1966 were you? We had five of our Major Airline Mechanics Unions go out on strike at the same time! Guess what! Brought this country to a standstill! Now I know the Government wouldn't let this happen again, but it does illustrate a point about value of skill!

I think that illustrates the power of solidarity more than the "value of skill."

In any case, what is your point about something that happend FORTY YEARS AGO? How is that relevant to this discussion? Why don't you all go on strike again if that is the solution to your problems? Heck, even if the government says it is illegal, they can't fire ALL of you, right? (Since you're so irreplaceable and all.)

BTW -- some friendly advice -- a lot of things have changed since the middle of last century.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Unrealistic? I think AMFA's pathetic situation over at NW shows just how out of touch the Mechanic B's of the industry are concerning the reality of the market value of their skills.

Absolutely Unrealistic.

The wage and benefit increases achieved as a result of the NWA PEB in March of 2001, and UALs in January of 2002(despite 9-11) clearly showed the results of the very market forces you constantly espouse. This was, in large part, the result of an increasing shortage of aircraft mechanics.

Along comes 9-11, and the industry goes into a tail spin. Between bankruptcy and industry wide downsizing, thousands of experienced mechanics hit the streets. As the vast majority of those furloughed were caught completely off guard, they in turn, out of neccessity, take up positions at OSVs at substantialy reduced rates. It was in this glut of mechanics, that NWA was able to fall back on and gain the advantage in the strike. Nothing more.

This conflux of 9-11 and resultant bankruptcy/downsizing is an aberation, and not truely reflective of the aircraft mechanic market.

I think your statement shows how "out of touch" you are with the mechanic situation in this industry.