AMT morale in the toilet

[MCI transplant]

<_< ----- I believe the issue here has totally been missed! The issue is that we as AMTs are under compensated for the responsibility we take every day! Day in, and day out! I'll make a startling statement here! I feel a AMT earns his pay every time he signs off an "Airworthy Item"! What other profession can be fined by the Government, thrown in jail, or both? What other job can the Government pull your license,in affect, taking away your livelihood? What other job takes the lives of others in their hands, every day? Yet pays less than ordinary laborers? ------ And yes Mr.Bear! That Aircraft doesn't move one inch until a licenced AMT signs the "Airworthiness Release"!!! ----- Now! How much is all this worth to you Mr.Bear? National average? Below national average? Above national average?--- 😉

 

[Bear96]

<_< ----- I believe the issue here has totally been missed! The issue is that we as AMTs are under compensated for the responsibility we take every day!

That's more of a "whine" than an "issue."

The REAL issue is, WHY are AMTs "undercompensated" (in your opinion).

What other profession can be fined by the Government, thrown in jail, or both? What other job can the Government pull your license,in affect, taking away your livelihood?

Ah, I see we have moved on to the "martyr" schpiel.

Please provide an example of an AMT actually serving time in jail for an on-the-job screw-up.

As to other jobs where the government can pull your license or certification and in effect take away your livelihood, how about nurse, doctor, lawyer, teacher, bus driver, truck driver, taxi driver, pilot, engineer, hairdresser / beautician, electrician (in some states) . . .

What other job takes the lives of others in their hands, every day?

Doctors, nurses, bus drivers, taxi drivers, air traffic controllers, auto mechanics, police officer, firefighters, paramedics, many armed forces positions, nuclear plant operators (think Homer Simpson), school crossing guards, ADA meat inspectors . . .

Yet pays less than ordinary laborers?

Assuming that is true, why on earth do you do such a mind-bogglingly incredibly important job -- the most important job in the universe, bar none (to hear you talk) -- for such little pay?

------ And yes Mr.Bear! That Aircraft doesn't move one inch until a licenced AMT signs the "Airworthiness Release"!!!

Lots of things have to come together, thanks to the labor of lots of people (pilots, F/As, fuelers, dispatchers, ATC), before an aircraft moves one inch. Enough with the self-inflated, "no job is more important than mine" drivel. You are but a cog in a big, complicated wheel, no more or less important than any one of the other teams necessary to come together to make an airline.

----- Now! How much is all this worth to you Mr.Bear? National average? Below national average? Above national average?--- 😉

Like any job, it's "worth" as much as the market will support. No more, no less.

 

[A/C FIXER]

Please provide an example of an AMT actually serving time in jail for an on-the-job screw-up.


Bears, IIRC the mechanics who pencil whipped the o2 canisters on Valuejet went to the joint, albeit they were released when the charges were dropped. As a matter of fact 1 was arrested here in TUL while at work for AA. The Feds came on the property, cuffed him and took him away.

 

[Bear96]

So you are verifying that no one was actually "thrown in jail," as the earlier post alleged?

 

[A/C FIXER]

So you are verifying that no one was actually "thrown in jail," as the earlier post alleged?

I believe the 1 in question was in jail for a month or so before being released. But the fact remains that he was still put in jail, regardless of the amount of time.

 

[Bear96]

By the way, of course any professional (or anyone else) risks jail time for actually doing something illegal. Here's an example of that for doctors:

Doctors Serving Jail Time

And of course we have all seen the news lately about the Enron officers.

That's far different from MCI transplant's implication that an aircraft mechanic risks actual jail time for innocently signing off on a logbook in the regular course of business and having no reason to suspect that he or she is doing anything wrong.

However, if anyone has an actual example of that, post it and I will be glad to admit I am wrong.

I believe the 1 in question was in jail for a month or so before being released. But the fact remains that he was still put in jail, regardless of the amount of time.

Link?

 

[Chuck Schalk]

Like any job, it's "worth" as much as the market will support. No more, no less


Mr Bear, What is it that makes a job its worth and what is the support that drives the market worth?

 

[Bear96]

Like any job, it's "worth" as much as the market will support. No more, no less
Mr Bear, What is it that makes a job its worth and what is the support that drives the market worth?

The compensation and quality of work life an employer must offer to attract and retain sufficient numbers of qualified people for the position, adjusted for the influences of unionization, is what the job is "worth" in labor market terms.

I don't understand the last part ("what is the support that drives the market worth").

 

[A/C FIXER]

By the way, of course any professional (or anyone else) risks jail time for actually doing something illegal. Here's an example of that for doctors:

Doctors Serving Jail Time

And of course we have all seen the news lately about the Enron officers.

That's far different from MCI transplant's implication that an aircraft mechanic risks actual jail time for innocently signing off on a logbook in the regular course of business and having no reason to suspect that he or she is doing anything wrong.

However, if anyone has an actual example of that, post it and I will be glad to admit I am wrong.
Link?

See if this works, there are quite a few links to the Valujet crash. http://www.camc.ca/en/OurProducts/SafetyMa...s/article4.html

 

[Bear96]

See if this works, there are quite a few links to the Valujet crash. http://www.camc.ca/en/OurProducts/SafetyMa...s/article4.html

I have read a lot about it, but I still can't find anything that indicates one of VJ's mechanics actually went to jail over it (including this article).

 

[A/C FIXER]

I have read a lot about it, but I still can't find anything that indicates one of VJ's mechanics actually went to jail over it (including this article).

Since Valujet outsourced their maintenance, Valujet didn't have any mechanics per-se, these guys were from Sabretech. The article still shows that these guys were charged and 1 flew the coop, it says something about "pre-trial release", I'm no Lawyer but that tells me someone was in jail and had to go before a judge for a hearing.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ----Let me get this straight Mr. Bear, Your saying that all of the following take peoples lifes in their hands day in, and day out?----- Doctors, Nurses, Bus Drivers, Taxi Drivers, Air traffic Controllers, Engineers, Electrocutions (in some States), Firefighters, Paramedics, Nuclear Plant Operators, and FDA Meat Inspectors!---- Well, let me point one thing out here! With the exception of "maybe" the Taxi cab driver, and I'm not sure of that, all of the above are compensated to a large degree more than the average AMT!!! ---- I rest my case!!

 

[Bear96]

Since Valujet outsourced their maintenance, Valujet didn't have any mechanics per-se, these guys were from Sabretech. The article still shows that these guys were charged and 1 flew the coop, it says something about "pre-trial release", I'm no Lawyer but that tells me someone was in jail and had to go before a judge for a hearing.

How does it tell you that? "Pre-trial release" means there had not yet been a trial. Therefore, no one could have been sentenced to prison yet.

In any case, you are losing sight of the point. Sure, if some airline mechanic acts CRIMINALLY, that is, knowingly and willingly does something horrible enough, yes, that person might face jail time -- as with any other job. Think of teachers. A teacher might go to jail for molesting a student. Does that mean that it is accurate for teachers to imply they risk going to jail every day they go to work and simply do their jobs? No.

Similarly, an airplane mechanic simply and innocently signing off on a logbook and then having something unexpected and not reasonably foreseeable happen (i.e., not acting CRIMINALLY) does not lead to jail, unlike what a lot of the "martyr mechanics" here want others to believe.

 

[Bear96]

<_< ----Let me get this straight Mr. Bear, Your saying that all of the following take peoples lifes in their hands day in, and day out?----- Doctors, Nurses, Bus Drivers, Taxi Drivers, Air traffic Controllers, Engineers, Electrocutions (in some States), Firefighters, Paramedics, Nuclear Plant Operators, and FDA Meat Inspectors!----

As much as airplane mechanics do, yes (and in many cases, much more so).

let me point one thing out here! With the exception of "maybe" the Taxi cab driver, and I'm not sure of that, all of the above are compensated to a large degree more than the average AMT!!! ---- I rest my case!!

What is your "case"?

I'm missing your point. I have never said that compensation is, or should be, related to how often someone takes the lives of others in his hands, as you seem to think. That is almost irrelevant to determining how much a job is "worth" in the labor market.

Assuming for the sake of this discussion that it is accurate to say that airplane mechanics are compensated less than the others to a "large degree," that simply means that for some reason, people are willing to work for lower wages as an airplane mechanic than they are in the other positions. Compensation has nothing to do with taking lives into hands.

You guys really think you are some sort of mythical selfless heroes in dangerous jobs that are "worth" what, a million dollars per year, don't you? Perhaps this detachment from the reality of your place in the overall labor market, and apparent lack of understanding of basic economics, explains a lot about the unionized airplane mechanic mentality. It's really not wise to go through life and base career decisions on such bad information.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Bear, you wrote, "Yes, I want your profession to go to the lowest possible cost that will still attract qualified people. Since you would no doubt consider yourself qualified, and you have made it quite clear that things still aren't bad wage enough to make you consider leaving, I see more room for cutting."

Excuse me but this quote seems a bit ignorant. You want the man or woman, who repaired the aircraft you are flying on at 32,000 feet going around 500 MPH to be the lowest paid but still qualified? This sounds like a comment someone who flew NWA while SCABS "worked" on the aircraft only to have wheels fall off in flight. You can not have both, lowest paid AND quality.

It is ignorance such as this that prevents you, either intentionally or accidentally, from seeing the truth behind those of us who remain because "things aren't bad wage enough to make you consider leaving". What don't you comprehend about a group of individuals who took the time and money to become skilled to do what an AMT does? What don't you understand about doing a job and being compensated FAIRLY for your responsibilities?

With you posts/comments it seems as if you come across an adversity, no matter how big or small, you would simply "cross the street" and start over someplace else only till adversity crossed your path again.

Yes, there are other jobs out there an AMT can cross over to. But I will fight to protect and promote my craft. That way I know that ignorant individuals such as yourself remain safe at 32,000 feet while brushing up against the speed of sound. Oh, I'll also make sure your aircraft's tires remain attached for landing.