Amfa Vs. Twu Debate

[j7915]

AMFA is a failure at Northwest? I seem to remember AMFA was the union that fought and won major wage and benefit increases at Northwest. If I remember correctly, they set the ball in motion at other airlines in getting major benefit and wage increases for the mechanics. Wasn't it the IAM and the EVIL TWU that gave everything away that AMFA got for us in 2001? CIO are you a surviving member of JIM JONES' cult? How much TWU Kool-Aid do you drink daily? CIO,when are you gonna realize that one of these days the EVIL TWU is gonna spike your Kool-Aid with cyannide just like your buddy JIM JONES did.

I seem to recall that it was the UAL pilots that set the bar at 25% pay raise, and then of course busted the company. They acted like company owners determined to raid "their" kitty bank, they did and they busted it.

You are all asking for "proof" that even without AMFA's contract at NWA the TWU have negotiated raises. Now even after the reductions thanks to the economy after 9/11, I am still above the previous contract. So my conclusion is that we now have about one third to half more than what would have been negotiated without AMFA and more than if we had not ratified the contract in 2001.

Which the TWU recommended, seeing as they faced the company negotiators that was probably the balanced package, at the time.

I have noticed that AMFA never seems to recommend or give opinion on their contracts, so except for the insiders there is no way to tell whether all possible wheeling dealing had been exhausted.

 

[PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH]

If it wasn't for AMFA taking it all the way to PEB and threatening to walkout on strike, we at AA would have gotten another 6 year 1% raise per year EVIL TWU special in 2001. Oh that's right! We gave up the farm back last spring and we now have 6 year 1%raise EVIL TWU special. While Northwest mechanics didn't give away anything. WAY TO GO TWU! YEAH! CONCESSIONS ALL THE WAY! GO TEAMTWU GO!

 

[Hackman]

I seem to recall that it was the UAL pilots that set the bar at 25% pay raise, and then of course busted the company. They acted like company owners determined to raid "their" kitty bank, they did and they busted it.

You are all asking for "proof" that even without AMFA's contract at NWA the TWU have negotiated raises. Now even after the reductions thanks to the economy after 9/11, I am still above the previous contract. So my conclusion is that we now have about one third to half more than what would have been negotiated without AMFA and more than if we had not ratified the contract in 2001.

Which the TWU recommended, seeing as they faced the company negotiators that was probably the balanced package, at the time.

I have noticed that AMFA never seems to recommend or give opinion on their contracts, so except for the insiders there is no way to tell whether all possible wheeling dealing had been exhausted.

I don't see the comparison between mechanics and pilots j7915. You've said this before and you are still way off the mark. If your going to use pilots as a comparision, then what we as mechanics have lost is even more apparent. A@P's use to be paid on average 60% to 70% of what a fly boy made back in the 60's and 70's. Today we have are not even 20% to 30% of a the average topped out wide body captain. The sad reality is we have the responsibility of a pilot, but we have been dumbed down so long by the industrail unions that we are stuck in a huge rut, which is why we are getting into one union to try to dig ourselves out. Its time for a change.

The AA mechanics are not getting the snap back like the AA pilots are, why is that? I'll tell you. The pilots have a real union, and AA mechanics have a dues collection agency.

AMFA brought the industry wages up far beyond what twu has EVER done with the contract at NWA, plain and simple. This is something the twu and the iam could not do, proven year over year over year.

You believe you are above the 1995 contract? You can't be serious, you have got to be stoned out of your mind. Have you seen the charts of inflation compared to our wages over the years? Its sickening! You need to get your twu rose colored glasses replaced buddy.

"So my conclusion is that we now have about one third to half more than what would have been negotiated without AMFA and more than if we had not ratified the contact in 2001."

MY GOD, SOMEBODY GET THIS MAN SOME HELP !!!!

AMFA does not have to recommend contracts, with open negotiations, a full contract in writing before voting, and commication channels that are open instead of closed, the members can make up there own mind!

What a concept j7915! Can you imagine it? Not being led around by your nose ring by a worthless "we'll get 'um next time" union that only wants you for your money. I just might get use to that.

 

[TWU informer]

You can spin all you want, the simple fact is amfa has failed to perform since taking over at NW and has cost the Industry dearly. It was amfa who has allowed the increase in outsourcing and the elimination of permanent positions. They do not have the balls to step up and call for picketing for the injustice that has been done.

Amfa has the highest percentage of members on layoffs than any other Union for Mechanics. Is this what you want to be a part of?

Amfa has continued to admit the language in our contract is no good and AA will take full advantage of this if Amfa was ever to get in!! See massive Layoffs and closing of Maintenance Bases, This is obvious to anyone with smarts.

Spin? Those TWU Documents are NOT Spin.

And now you resort to the fear that because the TWU has weak language AA will use that against us if we go AMFA? Now that is a new twist on TWU failures! IT sounds like you are admitting the TWU is a company union and why that is fact.

 

[Steve Connell]

Calvin, welcome to the forum. I see the boys have been treating you as expected, or at least as I expect them. I also use SBC and it is the server address that they have captured. The last 3 digits should change on most usages if you log on with a common modem. Those that are fortunate enough to have cable will have a permanent I.P. (Internet Protocol) address assigned unless going through a firewall. It is also an option to manually change your IP address if desired.

Regardless, there are those here that will assume you are numerous people, all you have to do is mention you do not think along the same lines as they. They assume no one new would think of registering here.

Dave, what has AMFA succeeded with at NWA since it's birth? PDX? How many arbitration cases are pending? Surely these must be in the 100's. Oh yeah, don't forget to send money to AMFA and Dennis (hit PayPal).

Also Calvin, I do not know your seniority date with TWA but thanks to these fine people here you have 4/10/01. Now, go assist them in attaining their goals.

Had it not been for the concessionary package asked for by AA last year there would be no cause for alarm. Yet you speak of years of neglect from the TWU. How would you know neglect if you never attend a meeting?

Hope to see you good people on the 15th for the only debate that carries any weight.

 

[TWU informer]

Dave, what has AMFA succeeded with at NWA since it's birth? PDX? How many arbitration cases are pending? Surely these must be in the 100's. Oh yeah, don't forget to send money to AMFA and Dennis (hit PayPal).

Steve,

I'll steup to the plate and answer this question of yours. In fact, I will give you a direct comparison of the AMFA vs IAM at Northwest Airlines. This is a comparison of the rejected T/A that the IAM brought back and tried to sell to the Northwest Mechanics compared directly to the gains they achieved by going AMFA. These facts don't lie do they Steve?

Read it and weep Steve...



CHECK OUT THE IMPROVEMENTS AMFA MADE COMPARED TO THE IAM AT NWA

 

[Raptor]

Hey guys thanks for helping with the seniority numbers thing it looks like I have two sets of numbers from two different people one is we had 19,000 in August 01 and now have 14,500 which would leave 4500 Title 1 gone another one is 16,629 on April 19, 02 and now we have 12,099 which would be 4,530 Title 1 gone, basically anyway you look at it there is over 4000 Title 1 employee's gone, yes some are retiree's, a few terminations and Deaths but that is also the case with the Numbers at Northwest. bottom line boys I think we can all agree that there are alot of Mechanics gone at both Airlines, there are some differences though, and I will just name a few important ones, #1 all the Mechanics on layoff at Northwest were laid off illegally and against their job protection clause in their contract, all those Mechanic jobs are in Arbitration that means basically that AMFA is sueing Northwest for breach of contract and if they win, all those Mechanics will be back.

#2. The Mechanics at Northwest do have the second best contract in the industry.

At AA #1 we also had a job protection clause but the TWU gave away the Mechanics Job protection and their 12,500 layoff pay, therefore there is no chance of them being recalled do to Arbitration as they we LEGALLY sent packing thanks to our new concession.

#2 We at AA are NO. 6 in the Industry in pay and benefits and we allways will be if we stay with the TWU.

Both companys have huge layoffs there is not much difference there the real differences come with items 1 and 2 there are many others these are just two big ones.

As for the pointless Mechanic debate on the 15th what I really want to know is how many TWU supporters will be there on PAID UB from the TWU because we all know that none of them would be there on their own time and their own dime.
This question is something us AMFA supporters need to find out as we can surely use it against the TWU.

Who wants to be in a Union where the Leaders are afraid to face the membership ?

 

[Steve Connell]

I'll steup to the plate and answer this question of yours. In fact, I will give you a direct comparison of the AMFA vs IAM at Northwest Airlines

Now does this also pertain to the 50% that are furloughed? Did they benefit from these more than I did as one that is not employed by NWA? Fact is, I have something in common with 50% of the mechs at NWA, I DON'T WORK THERE EITHER!

Oh yeah, takes a bit more than that to make me weep, but you're getting close!

 

[Raptor]

Well Steve one thing is for sure you don't have something in common with all the TWA and AA Mechanics that don't work at AA anymore do you, You still work here they don't :angry:
and that really does suck !!!

The poll I put out has some very interesting results it seems 90% of us have no faith in our Leaders.

Will the TWU International send a Officer to debate Delle ?

No the TWU Leaders are cowards and are afraid to face the Mechanics and Delle in a public forum. [ 18 ] [90.00%]

Yes the TWU will send a Officer to debate Delle as they are not afraid to face the membership or Delle in a public forum. [ 2 ] [10.00%] this is a really low percentage

Total Votes: 20

 

[Buck]

20 Votes, that is almost enough to fill the hotel room the TWU rented to debate themselves.

 

[TWU informer]

Now does this also pertain to the 50% that are furloughed? Did they benefit from these more than I did as one that is not employed by NWA? Fact is, I have something in common with 50% of the mechs at NWA, I DON'T WORK THERE EITHER!

Oh yeah, takes a bit more than that to make me weep, but you're getting close!

Show us proof that 50% are furloughed at NWA Steve.

You've been listening to BS from the TWU again.

There are currently 2808 on layoff Steve, an Arbitration Decisions are pending over the NWA Management use of Force Majeure.

Any others missing from NWA payroll is due to stand-in-steads, employee refusal to accept job protections by relocating, terminations, retirements, voluntary leaves, ect.

Steve, if you are going to put your credibility on the line, double check the TWU BS before you spew it as fact!

Tell us Steve, using the TWU way of figuring employee loss, how many TWA employees have been eliminated since AA/TWU took control of your lives? Be honest pal, there are not lawsuits pending over seniority for no reason.

Your question was "what has AMFA succeeded at NWA since birth" and you received a factual answer. Can we get the same from you now?

 

[mojo13]

As for the pointless Mechanic debate on the 15th what I really want to know is how many TWU supporters will be there on PAID UB from the TWU because we all know that none of them would be there on their own time and their own dime.
This question is something us AMFA supporters need to find out as we can surely use it against the TWU.

Let me ask you this, if TWU is the bargaining union for the members on the property of American Airlines why shouldn't they pay UB? So what if they pay it? If they are getting UB, then they are not drawing off AA unless they take a PVD. Why should the members have to take a PVD? It is your association that has caused this debate to be necessary.

 

[Raptor]

Ya I agree buck, but they will only come if they are PAID

 

[TWU informer]

mojo,

If the card drive is stalled and nobody supports AMFA like the TEAM TWU and TWU informer claims, then why is this debate necessary?

Is somebody telling lies again. LOLOLOL

 

[mojo13]

mojo,

If the card drive is stalled and nobody supports AMFA like the TEAM TWU and TWU informer claims, then why is this debate necassary?

Is somebody telling lies again. LOLOLOL

I don't recall saying that the drive was stalled, I am just saying what is the big deal if TWU pays its members UB to be there? They are protecting their interests.