AMFA Organizing Drive to Replace Association

[Duke787]

View attachment 15621

Samuelson is highly successful, effectively forced association rather then a vote. Got a contract passed (at beginning of pandemic, when we can all see the impending doom, I doubt it would have passed otherwise) he successfully got the IAM members a better contract which number about a 1/3 of twu members, unfortunately the contract isnt better then UALs or SWAs

what a hero

 

[Topcat187]

Samuelson is highly successful, effectively forced association rather then a vote. Got a contract passed (at beginning of pandemic, when we can all see the impending doom, I doubt it would have passed otherwise) he successfully got the IAM members a better contract which number about a 1/3 of twu members, unfortunately the contract isnt better then UALs or SWAs

what a hero

I don't personally think either of their contacts are better. Whether anyone likes it or not, I think the AA contract is better.

Now the Association itself I'm not thrilled about, but that's a whole other story.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

WOW you beat SWAAMT with this info. Watch out he may delete your post like he keeps doing mine. Congrats. Now lets see if AMFA can get [as

LOL You sound just like Trump. "LARGE CARD QUANTITY" . Why to need to keep saying it. Dont get your panties in a bunch. Just messing with you like I always do and did. I actually miss your big mad at the world self. I know you want to know who I am but I cant let you know. SWAAMT will get mad. We know how many people he has gotten kick off this board for not drinking his coolaid. I only mess with him because he takes this crap too serious. Life it too short. If we do vote AMFA in office there is not one person in Miami that will be new to step up. It will be the same guys. I wish Some new people would step up but you and me both know that wont happen. I have been in Miami for almost 30 years and it has been the same guys running. The Jimmy boys or the Richie boys. This is why I keep saying NO ONE CARES. Hey when this is over find a Girl Friend and Go enjoy your Self. But you have to stop being so damn pissed off 1st..

OAM; REALLY Again with the BS Trump stuff, There are pictures of the quantity of cards that were turned in, Are you expecting me to tell you the actual number or percentage? Whom ever decides to run against the current group, which group are You going to support? Or have you yourself become so cynical that you are one of the sheep. I am not trying to insult you in any way, you just keep saying all this defeatist attitude stuff and No ones cares maybe its just you.. You know being in MIA for 30 yrs that each group of Local Officers has had their own type of crap, that happened. From what you have said here I am going make a guess on who you are. You are Truth Be Free from the past. My hints were ORD and 30yrs in MIA. I may be wrong. If I am correct I am really surprised I thought better of that person.

I am NOT pissed off, NOT in the slightest bit. What ever happens going forward at MIA is NOW on the guys who work there. They can listen to the current officers BS and get lead down a road of mistrust and Not care or They can decide to make a change, see what happens. Set aside what has been and say what IF.

My Aviation days are over, my life going forward and what I do and who I do it with is my choice, I have for a long time set all the BS aside, I don't take it home.
This AMFA Card drive and getting a VOTE for the M&R class and craft is my last act of defiance toward the TWU.

Your statements NOT MINE, No one cares so I assume that means you as well.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

WOW you beat SWAAMT with this info. Watch out he may delete your post like he keeps doing mine. Congrats. Now lets see if AMFA can get [as

LOL You sound just like Trump. "LARGE CARD QUANTITY" . Why to need to keep saying it. Don't get your panties in a bunch. Just messing with you like I always do and did. I actually miss your big mad at the world self. I know you want to know who I am but I cant let you know. SWAAMT will get mad. We know how many people he has gotten kick off this board for not drinking his coolaid. I only mess with him because he takes this crap too serious. Life it too short. If we do vote AMFA in office there is not one person in Miami that will be new to step up. It will be the same guys. I wish Some new people would step up but you and me both know that wont happen. I have been in Miami for almost 30 years and it has been the same guys running. The Jimmy boys or the Richie boys. This is why I keep saying NO ONE CARES. Hey when this is over find a girlfriend and Go enjoy yourself. But you have to stop being so damn pissed off 1st..

 

[Old Azz Mechanic]

OAM; REALLY Again with the BS Trump stuff, There are pictures of the quantity of cards that were turned in, Are you expecting me to tell you the actual number or percentage? Whom ever decides to run against the current group, which group are You going to support? Or have you yourself become so cynical that you are one of the sheep. I am not trying to insult you in any way, you just keep saying all this defeatist attitude stuff and No ones cares maybe its just you.. You know being in MIA for 30 yrs that each group of Local Officers has had their own type of crap, that happened. From what you have said here I am going make a guess on who you are. You are Truth Be Free from the past. My hints were ORD and 30yrs in MIA. I may be wrong. If I am correct I am really surprised I thought better of that person.

I am NOT pissed off, NOT in the slightest bit. What ever happens going forward at MIA is NOW on the guys who work there. They can listen to the current officers BS and get lead down a road of mistrust and Not care or They can decide to make a change, see what happens. Set aside what has been and say what IF.

My Aviation days are over, my life going forward and what I do and who I do it with is my choice, I have for a long time set all the BS aside, I don't take it home.
This AMFA Card drive and getting a VOTE for the M&R class and craft is my last act of defiance toward the TWU.

Your statements NOT MINE, No one cares so I assume that means you as well.

I am cant let you or anyone on this site know who I am. I guess you believe everything I have said. I may be old or I may be very young. I may have also stretch the truth a little here and there. Will you guys stop taking things so serious. I will give you a little hint of who I am. You were scared to work on my crew. Every Eastern Airline person was scared to work for me. Think hard.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

I am cant let you or anyone on this site know who I am. I guess you believe everything I have said. I may be old or I may be very young. I may have also stretch the truth a little here and there. Will you guys stop taking things so serious. I will give you a little hint of who I am. You were scared to work on my crew. Every Eastern Airline person was scared to work for me. Think hard.

OAM;

Your clue doesn't help me at all, I was never scared to work on anyone's crew, I did have C/C that I would not want to work for but to seperate it down to Eastern guys I am drawing a blank. I worked for 7 different C/C I think during my time in MIA, But scared Never. If your not a C/C then you are talking nonsense. We all go where seniority takes you, and then its a choice of either this C/C or another and the guys on that crew and shift. For you to say you made guys on your crew that were X Eastern scared is a Laugher.

No I don't believe All of what you have said far from it. You have made some valid points with your comments about the guys here in MIA but the other rhetoric you have said is just that. Making a decision on the Bargaining unit that represents you is serious, that affects the wage earning potential that you and every other mechanic has to Think about. Your Career and future is serious maybe NOT for you but a lot of guys are worried about how this change will affect the benefits and the rest of the stuff they are accustomed to having without thinking about it.

 

[iluvaa]

Phuck the association AMFA now

 

[swamt]

Samuelson is highly successful, effectively forced association rather then a vote. Got a contract passed (at beginning of pandemic, when we can all see the impending doom, I doubt it would have passed otherwise) he successfully got the IAM members a better contract which number about a 1/3 of twu members, unfortunately the contract isnt better then UALs or SWAs

what a hero

Just wondering what type of attempts he and others will make in order to try desperately to stop a possible vote between AMFA and the current Asso.?
I would be willing to bet that the TWU/IAM leaders were going ape shite when the AMFA press release came out about the filing with the NMB on Fri. They were scrambling all weekend about how to derail a vote. Losing AA as mechanic representation will kill (I think) all airline mechanic representation by the TWU or IAM. Something the entire industry needs.
I hope this all goes well for the AA'ers to get a class and craft union in for the mechanic and related. It's what most all the Pilots and F/A's did long ago at all airlines and there is a huge reason for that, because their representation focuses on one thing the "Pilots" and the "F/A's" as will AMFA for the "mechanics and related" but not 12 other groups all thrown into the same representation, too many different classes and crafts.
Looking forward to the NMB's announcement in the near future...

 

[Old Azz Mechanic]

Why do you guys keep jumping to a vote happening. You are forgetting that you have to get past the NMB. They are bought and paid for. Let take it one step at a time. I have to try to change up the way I say things. Because you younger guys think different. I guess I have been trying to have a little to much fun on here. That is just who I am. SWAAMT I pick on you the most because you care the most. Amfa in Miami I just pick on you because I like you. I was just like you for years but then I got smart and stop trying to change people that dont want to be changed. Some explained Miami to me along time ago.This guys dont know what UNION is or means. Their Parents didn't work UNION jobs. Most of their parents are from South America. They where taught that the boss is like family. That is the biggest problem here. They will NEVER understand Union. The eastern guys and Pan am guys are all pissed that they lost their jobs and had to leave home to transfer back here and then was stuck on nite shift without too much chance to get off. The Richie and Poof, Made a deal to get most of them on day shift with the promise that they would kiss management azz and pump out airplanes no matter what. This is why they will never turn on the current scamming boys that you always talk about. This is why NO one ever runs against them. The are also bought and paid for my the company but its like the 3rd world mentality that most of their parents came form. Kiss the boss azz and you get a lolly pop (or pizza).
This is me being serious. You know everything I just said it the truth. It cant be changed so this is why I DONT CARE and why all the other good guys DONT CARE EITHER.

Sorry for the long post but I just wanted a few of you to understand the history of Miami and the rest of AA.

 

[swamt]

I misposted this in the downsizing thread, it belongs here in the AMFA Organizing thread:

Yes come today (this morning) I am sure we will get loads of folks reporting all the uptick in fear mongering, threats, and misinformation that will flood the rank and file from the Asso., TWU, and IAM and maybe even some from AA. Since announcement came over the weekend, and the filing was Fri., pretty sure we will get earfulls starting on Mon.
Just remember guys "DO NOT" just believe everything you are told about what will happen or going to happen. DO your own homework, and research and get the info yourselves. This includes any AMFA supporters telling you anything, find supporting structure that backs it all up. The propaganda machine will come on full force from the anti-AMFA galleries as it always does. It did at NWA, SWA, ALK, United, Horizon etc. everywhere where there was a representational vote for AMFA being held, and so far at all carriers listed AMFA prevailed. Usually the anti-AMFA propaganda will get so badly full of lies and misinformation that they usually help the AMFA get in with all their ridiculous made up stories, lies, and misinformation.
The Pensions questions? Go to the source to get answers. Goto the IAM pension fund website, call their contacts and ask all the questions if AMFA became the new representational union at AA. You guys WILL NOT lose your pensions. And YES, even though a representational change was made with the union you can and will still be able get the contributions should the majority of the members would want to keep it, and why wouldn't they at least until a new retirement package could be worked out "EQUALLY" across the board for all in the contract by AMFA after Amendable date is achieved. I would say more than likely the same match the other group will have in their 401K's will be moved over to all.
Stay strong, stay united and keep everyone informed. Answer all members questions no matter how small, verify everything for everyone, and AMFA will prevail the winner IMO, stay true and be professional and honest with backing support to show for anything that may come up. Still alot more work to do, but well worth it guys.
I think one of the biggest hurdles coming is the legibility list confirmations. The TWU/IAM/Asso as well as the company (AA) will knowingly pad the legibility list like they always have in the past. AMFA organizers are well prepared for it this time around and are expecting to have to trim that legibility list down (with evidence) and prove it to the NMB. The next couple moves will get very intense and busy for the organizers and AMFA National.
I am excited that the cards made it to the NMB. I am confident the will be an election coming the the Mechanic and Related at AA. Just gotta get thru these last, say, month, month and a half maybe...

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

As Most of you should of seen by now the ASSociation has fired it's first shot across the bow with all the BS that has happened with AMFA over all the YEARS.

Don't ask yourself what happened with AMFA, REMEMBER WHAT THE TWU HAS DONE FOR YOU, AND THE REASON YOU ALL SIGNED A CARD.

1. Our dues will STOP going to the Association and go to AMFA, so money is NO longer an issue.

2. You will have a voice and a say as to what happen with your Local and everything else.

3. Your contract and future contracts will NOT be tied to the FLEET or Stores Divisions of the TWU.

4. YOU Personally get a Ballot to vote for the officers of the National. Unlike the TWU/IAM convention appointed leaders

5. TWU/IAM are part of the AFL-CIO, ask them why haven't changed the RLA (Railway Labor Act) to improve the Mechanics status in all these years?

6. Why didn't the TWU put up this much fight when other groups left the TWU?

7. Why is Tulsa smaller NOW than it was yrs ago?

8. Why did the TWU allow AA to close AFW?

9. From 2003 to now HOW MANY mechanics have been laid off How many SRPs, How many shops have closed and work outsourced?

10. What Happened to TAESEL, aka Engine shop?

11. Why in 1991 did the TWU use your years of vesting for your FUTURE RETIREMENT BENEFITS as a bargaining tool to go from 12 years to top out in pay rate to 5 years, when Federal Law made it 5years to be vested for retirement in Jan of 1989.

12. I AM NOT TRYING TO CAUSE ANY RIFT BETWEEN THE IAM/TWU GUYS WITH THIS STATEMENT. Why with a joint contract which is the ASSOCIATION, is there separate medical and other benefits

With just these few questions I am Hoping that you get my drift, the industry we all have worked in for yrs has changed and through all the years and economical
down turns people have lost jobs, airlines have gone out of business, and so on. At NWA they went on STRIKE, which was voted on by the membership. Just Like at Eastern we voted to go on STRIKE. How much of the Title 2 guys got cut this time? How much of their work is being outsourced? What about all the seat Mods that are being done outside of AA. Continental filed BK how many times and are where are they, United filed BK with IAM & AMFA in place. USAir filed BK 2X with the IAM what did they lose in those filings. Look and ask what Happened to PANAM under the TWU's watch? How much of what we had in years past is NO Longer and that is what the TWU has allowed AA to Take.

All this kind of stuff will be thrown out by the TWU/IAM just to save your DUES.

DON'T FALL FOR IT STAY THE COARSE AND BRING AMFA HERE TO AA.

 

[Paul Too]

The negative onslaught against AMFA begins as predicted!

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

This is the Letter Put out by the TWU/IAM Association since we filed

Tiny Raider Association Threatens Mechanics at American Airlines
I am wondering if all the mechanics who signed cards to bring us a VOTE are Threatened? And if so HOW SCARED are You?

A small and poorly-resourced association claimed on Friday that it secured the requisite support among mechanic and related workers at American Airlines to call for a representation election. The Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (amfa) filed what is known as an application for investigation for a representation dispute with the National Mediation Board (NMB) Friday afternoon. The NMB will now determine if a dispute actually exists.

The NMB will now await a list from AA of the eligible voters that the company believes is within the M&R class and Craft. Also the Association will do everything it can to also figure a way to dispute the total numbers we have at this time.

In its announcement, amfa claimed that changes in union representation will “not impact your current collective bargaining agreement.” That is one of their lies. A change in representation will end the guaranteed medical insurance benefits and defined pension plan for every former LUS mechanic and related worker. And if amfa were successful in a representation vote, all American Airlines mechanic and related workers will risk their industry best scope language, since amfa has the worst record when it comes to protecting the work of its members.

What the TWU/IAM Fails to tell you is the current contract remains in place until it becomes ammedable, so the scope language remains the same. As far as the Defined Pension Plan as they call it, it is a IAMNPF a pension ran by and started by the IAM, If the LUS employees switch to AMFA as Part of the M&R workgroup
IT IS CORRECT THAT, NO FURTHER PAYMENTS WILL BE ACCEPTED INTO THE FUND SINCE THEY ARE NO LONGER IAM EMPLOYEES. THIS IS WHAT THEY STATED DURING THE IBT DRIVE AT USAirways. Contractually AA will have to figure out along with the IAM and AMFA how the money that is promised to the LUS guys will be distributed to each of them. The current pension funds They can't lose so AGAIN that will have to be addressed as to how those funds will be set aside since NO-ONE CAN TAKE YOUR PENSION. If you read the current contract the IAM medical plan is phased out over the next few years in some way or another. The ASSociation also put language in the contract saying if you change representation you will lose it all. That is challengeable in the courts.

The reality is, amfa is a weak organization that does not have the strength and resources to take on the largest airline on the planet. According to its latest financial report, amfa has a total of $2.2 million. To fight an airline like American, which has tens of billions of annual revenues, you need a lot more than a couple of million in the bank.
Our Union Dues will STOP going into the TWU coffers and go to AMFA so with that said Money will Not be a Factor.

Also, amfa has the distinction of being the industry leader in negotiating contracts that allow the absolute most aircraft maintenance work to be outsourced. Their irresponsible agreements have caused the greatest reduction of Mechanic and Related workers in the history of the industry. To compare, there are about SIX TIMES more mechanics per aircraft at American Airlines (due to the best scope language in the industry) than Southwest Airlines, where amfa represents only 2,700 members, out of their total membership at all their carriers of approximately 3,500 members. And, TWU-IAM Association members enjoy better pay, better benefits and better working conditions.

In the 2003 AMFA Organizers Failure as they put it since it is the employees NOT AMFA. we had approx 19k TWU M&R employees. How many do we have NOW? Approx 12k so that means that the TWU has lost 6k members why don't they explain those loses?

This filing follows the failed 2013 attempt by amfa to raid American Airlines –an effort that was firmly rejected by the NMB.

There was an attempt by the AMFA Organizers here at AA to get enough cards to bring AMFA here But as you ALL Remember the TWU brought in the IBT to dilute the number of cards then they the IBT filed cards before the AMFA organizers could get to Washington with the collected cards. So the NMB said we were to Late since AA had given the NMB the list required and that is why they denied the cards, so there was NO Filing.

With the uncertainty that our industry faces today, to be represented by a weak, poorly resourced association like amfa is downright dangerous.

And, amfa has a long and documented history of failures:

Lets go back into History, How many bk filing did Continental have? what did the IAM represented M&R workers lose in those?
How many times has United filed for BK, and they were represented by the IAM as well. What happened to the M&R workers there?
How about the USAirways M&R workers what did they lose under the IAM each time that happened?
What happened to the stock and other benefits I as ONE of the EASTERN Airlines M&R work group?
How about the Pension and lack of wage earning potential the TWA guys lost over a 15 year min. time frame while AGAIN under the IAM
What happened to the M&R guys at PanAm since they were twu, what did they lose?

•Due to massive outsourcing and poor representation, United Airlines mechanic and related workers decertified amfa in 2008, after only five years of bad representation and over 6 thousand jobs lost to outsourcing.

"YES" AMFA was voted out at United during a BK filing at UAL and a RAID by the IBT when UAL had opened and subsequently closed the Newly built maintenance base in INDY. The IBT promised to force UAL to re-open the base and get all the jobs Back. That Did NOT HAPPEN. And since UAL guys have collected AMFA cards and created a union to attempt to bring new representation to the M&R work group. ALTA is the name of that Union.

•amfa has lost all heavy maintenance, plant maintenance, and cleaning since their raid at Alaska Airlines.

The TWU has let AA reduce the number of mechanics in Tulsa the biggest to the low point it is at today, How did that Happen I wonder?

•Since 2004, amfa went from representing close to 20,000 mechanic and related members to about 3,500 in 2020.

As I stated above AA went from 19k M&R employees to approx 12k just at AA have them give you the numbers they have lost thoughout the Industry as they have supplied amfa's numbers?

•amfa negotiated contracts allowed for such a high level of outsourcing that, in a 48 month period, mechanic and related headcount at Northwest Airlines decreased from 10,000 to 3,800.

•amfa led the 3,800 remaining on the famed “suicide strike” at Northwest Airlines. Because of amfa’s go it alone philosophy, and their refusal to allow members to vote on offers that had the potential to save their members jobs, the strike was broken and not a single amfa member returned to work.

NO Union goes on strike without a VOTE by its membership, the NWA guys voted, stuck, and lost it all just like the Eastern guys did AMFA didn't put them out of business they did that on their own, since the IAM SCABBED AND CROSSED THE PICKET LINE. Pilots and F/A did as well.

•amfa then voluntarily waived the white flag at Northwest and gave up its certification.

"YES" That is correct they did that since Delta took over and in order for the process of money due the AMFA represented M&R workgroup AMFA had to decertify so that there would be no Union vote at Delta and the process of money due the AMFA guys would get to them in a more speedy way.
( round about way of putting it all ) There is more to the process but since I don't have all the details that is what I recall.

•At Ozark Airlines, amfa’s finances were so bad it had to borrow money from its members.
•At Ozark, amfa subverted its own constitution and signed numerous letters of agreement without its members’ consent.

TOO Long ago and I have nothing to add to this ask some of the TWA guys who are still here at AA what happened at Ozark?

•When the IAM won representation rights following the merger of Ozark and TWA, amfa abandoned their offices without paying the bill. Then amfa left their loyal supporters with a $9,000 bill and never bothered to show in court to answer the charges. As a result,the court handed down a $15,000 judgement against amfa.

If You or anyone doesn't pay your bills you will be taken to court so WHAT?

•In every case, amfa’s first order of business is to shed any worker that is not an aircraft mechanic. They cozy up to management and sacrifice these members, weaken their bargaining power and get nothing meaningful in return. This is the most despicable trait of their anti-union history amfa will lie about, then live up to.

This is a BIG LIE, if you go to SWA contract book as well as Alaska's contract you will see that here we call them Title 2 they are still in the contract and PROTECTED BY AMFA. What has the ASSOCIATION Done this time with our Title 2 guys, what is happening with the work they did throughout all the years ?

These are just a few examples of amfa’s failures. There are many more.

Since I started in the industry in the 1970's I will start there at one point the INDUSTRY was represented about 85% by the IAM all of those represented carries for the most part are GONE, what happened to ALL of those IAM workers and what did they LOSE as each went under and what deals were made at the end of each of those carriers to save benefits and jobs so did the IAM KISS the Behind of Management as well?

Every TWU-IAM Association member should be very wary of the “amfa promise” because it has never been kept. In reality, by continually sacrificing SCOPE -rather than fighting management -amfa has cost thousands of mechanic and related workers their jobs in the airline industry and those left behind have suffered because of that.

Some One from Tulsa will have to put a Name to this BUT who was the leader of the Local who made a Video that we will getum next time we are going to dig deep into their pockets, Did the TWU ever do that "NO"

The TWU-IAM Association stands ready to defend American Airlines mechanic and related workers from the devastation to you and your family that amfa representation promises to bring.

The TWU/IAM stands ready sure to take your DUES and give you crap in return, They are going to put out as much stuff as they can do discredit AMFA in any way they Can. Other than AA and its M&R workgroup who does the TWU represent in the M&R class and craft? You all know this is about your dues money sincce we are the highest paid members within the TWU ranks so for us to switch they will lose Millions of Dollars. That is the only Reason they are concerned about our class and Craft.

Sorry this became so lengthy But I wanted to address each of the ambiguities the ASSOCIATION put out about History in our industry.

 

[JREwing]

With all due respect, the AMFA may want to find another member to argue the above points made by IAM/TWU. In no fan of any union, but your bold text responses are sooooo weak. Sounds more like politician talking points during a debate. You better come with better bullet point arguments than those.

 

[4A Mechanic]

With all due respect, the AMFA may want to find another member to argue the above points made by IAM/TWU. In no fan of any union, but your bold text responses are sooooo weak. Sounds more like politician talking points during a debate. You better come with better bullet point arguments than those.

With all due respect, the AMFA may want to find another member to argue the above points made by IAM/TWU. In no fan of any union, but your bold text responses are sooooo weak. Sounds more like politician talking points during a debate. You better come with better bullet point arguments than those.

And what stake do you have in this game? The twu/iam abomination has failed us miserably!