AMFA Organizing Drive to Replace Association

[JimmyBop]

AMFA took over from the iam in 2003 after UAL declared bankruptcy - not the most ideal situation I'm sure most of you would agree.

At that time AMFA was saddled with the unenviable task of doing our first "negotiations" not under section 6, but under chapter 11 - as I'm sure many of you know, the bankruptcy courts are not where you make gains, you just do your best to stop the bleeding and the cutting. Like most other carriers, we lost people - our pensions were seized by the government ( in MX case just prior to what would've been a more advantageous phase in date ) we lost work as well as wages/benefits reductions

In 2008 the teamsters launched a campaign to remove AMFA - the organizers were former iam officials from the mechanic ranks. They essentially sowed the seeds of mistrust among the membership, and played up to them with free t shirts, lanyards, pics of hoffa, and other teamster swag. They made promises of great teamster power, and triple vesting pensions in their Western Conference plan, as well as the teamster medical plan teamcare - needless to say none of it ever materialized - Our members who had thrown out the iam, fell prey to iam die hards in teamster jackets - they bought back into bigger is better, and we've essentially paid the price ever since - Less of a voice, not more - Less representation, not more .... and our latest RIF due to COVID was a disaster - not in the fact that people got furloughed, but in the way the furlough took place - teamsters may be great for the trucking industry .... the airlines, not so much.

If you have a specific issue concerning our time in AMFA or the teamster campaign, let me know and I'll tell you what I know.

Exactly what is going on now. AA mechanics promising IAM mechanics a guaranteed bump up in 401k company match so they give up their guaranteed pension for 4 years despite the fact that AA in a pandemic will tell them "not our problem, see you at the end of the contract...and then some" and all the other empty promises they have been telling card drive after card drive...all orchestrated by the top dogs at AMFA. DON'T SIGN AN AMFA CARD!

 

[Rogallo]

 

[InfoSeeker]

Exactly what is going on now. AA mechanics promising IAM mechanics a guaranteed bump up in 401k company match so they give up their guaranteed pension for 4 years despite the fact that AA in a pandemic will tell them "not our problem, see you at the end of the contract...and then some" and all the other empty promises they have been telling card drive after card drive...all orchestrated by the top dogs at AMFA. DON'T SIGN AN AMFA CARD!

JB can you please explain what you mean by your statement of: AA mechanics promising IAM mechanics a guaranteed bump up in 401k company match. If I remember from a previous thread a question was brought up concerning the IAM pension contributions if the IAM was voted out, and I think the answer was that the IAM would not accept them because they were no longer represented by the IAM. The big question to be asked is what would happen to the IAM guys contributions that are currently going into the IAM pension if AMFA is voted in, and if not accepted by the IAM would those guys now default to the AA 401k plan. If these type of questions can be answered it would benefit the IAM guys in making a decision if a vote to replace the current representation does come up.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

AA mechanics promising IAM mechanics a guaranteed bump up in 401k company match so they give up their guaranteed pension for 4 years despite the fact that AA in a pandemic will tell them "not our problem, see you at the end of the contract...

JB can you please explain what you mean by your statement of: AA mechanics promising IAM mechanics a guaranteed bump up in 401k company match. If I remember from a previous thread a question was brought up concerning the IAM pension contributions if the IAM was voted out, and I think the answer was that the IAM would not accept them because they were no longer represented by the IAM. The big question to be asked is what would happen to the IAM guys contributions that are currently going into the IAM pension if AMFA is voted in, and if not accepted by the IAM would those guys now default to the AA 401k plan. If these type of questions can be answered it would benefit the IAM guys in making a decision if a vote to replace the current representation does come up.

If the majority of those in the iam plan wanted to stay in it, why wouldn't you just stay in it? Unless something has changed in the plan, iam membership (or lack there of) is NOT a deal breaker

Either way, if you have contractual language that contributions are to made to a retirement vehicle and that for what ever reason changes on the receiving end ... AA wouldn't simply get to keep the money - that was a lie we were told at UAL when trying to vote out the iam as well.

 

[JimmyBop]

If the majority of those in the iam plan wanted to stay in it, why wouldn't you just stay in it? Unless something has changed in the plan, iam membership (or lack there of) is NOT a deal breaker

Either way, if you have contractual language that contributions are to made to a retirement vehicle and that for what ever reason changes on the receiving end ... AA wouldn't simply get to keep the money - that was a lie we were told at UAL when trying to vote out the iam as well.

AA is under no obligation to negotiate with AMFA as there is a binding agreement in effect for the next 4+ years. They agreed to fund the IAM pension and up the 401k contribution to the TWU side for current workers. And to think that AA will open up any contract terms during this cash bleed period is foolish. AMFA and their supporters know this and it is why they cannot refute the fact that the IAM pension contribution would go away and the company is under no obligation to make up the difference. The best the AMFA organizers and supporters can come up with is their belief that the IAM pension is going under (a lie) and its not that big a deal. Many of the TWU pro-AMFA mechanics have disdain over the difference that exists and so they spin it to try and convince IAM members to sign cards. I dare them to put out a statement saying that AA is obligated by law to up the 401k match to the TWU level should AMFA prevail and the IAM stop future contributions to the pension for members who chose to leave the IAM.

 

[InfoSeeker]

AA is under no obligation to negotiate with AMFA as there is a binding agreement in effect for the next 4+ years. They agreed to fund the IAM pension and up the 401k contribution to the TWU side for current workers. And to think that AA will open up any contract terms during this cash bleed period is foolish. AMFA and their supporters know this and it is why they cannot refute the fact that the IAM pension contribution would go away and the company is under no obligation to make up the difference. The best the AMFA organizers and supporters can come up with is their belief that the IAM pension is going under (a lie) and its not that big a deal. Many of the TWU pro-AMFA mechanics have disdain over the difference that exists and so they spin it to try and convince IAM members to sign cards. I dare them to put out a statement saying that AA is obligated by law to up the 401k match to the TWU level should AMFA prevail and the IAM stop future contributions to the pension for members who chose to leave the IAM.

JB in your opinion what do you think will happen to the IAM members contributions to the pension fund if the IAM pension fund does not accept those contributions if members vote to change reprsentation? And I agree with you that AA is not under any obligation to negotiate with AMFA the terms of the current contract, but the contractual contributions will have to continue and if the IAM will not accept them maybe the best thing would be for the IAM members to default to the 401k with the same terms that are in currently in place. Your thoughts on this issue please, without any bad mouthing of the TWU members or the AMFA supporters, so that a conversation can be had in case a representational change is made. Thanks and stay safe.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

AA is under no obligation to negotiate with AMFA as there is a binding agreement in effect for the next 4+ years. They agreed to fund the IAM pension and up the 401k contribution to the TWU side for current workers. And to think that AA will open up any contract terms during this cash bleed period is foolish. AMFA and their supporters know this and it is why they cannot refute the fact that the IAM pension contribution would go away and the company is under no obligation to make up the difference. The best the AMFA organizers and supporters can come up with is their belief that the IAM pension is going under (a lie) and its not that big a deal. Many of the TWU pro-AMFA mechanics have disdain over the difference that exists and so they spin it to try and convince IAM members to sign cards. I dare them to put out a statement saying that AA is obligated by law to up the 401k match to the TWU level should AMFA prevail and the IAM stop future contributions to the pension for members who chose to leave the IAM.

And again I ask ... if the majority of iam turned AMFA mechanics decided they did not want to leave the iam pension fund WHY WOULD THEY HAVE TO?

twu/amfa stays 401k - iam/amfa stays iampf if the majority of those involved tells AMFA leadership they wish to stay in the plan, I seriously doubt AMFA would remove them against their will.

Just to be clear - unless there has been a major change at the iam pension fund - you DO NOT have to be an iam member to participate - those in charge of the iam union proper ARE NOT in charge of the iampf. So if UNION leadership is threatening the loss of your pension, go around them to the source - the iampf.

That makes a great question for AMFA leadership before signing a card if you're concerned - we asked it during our AMFA drives and you should too.


I am also curious why anyone would believe the iampf wouldn't take AA MX monies when its contractual and especially considering how bad a shape the fund is in?


AA MX - if you haven't already - do your own homework. Ask the iampf directly, and ask AMFA national directly - do not let the other unions try to handcuff you with lies about your pensions

 

[chellow]

With IAM pension in the Red. I doubt they will not take the x IAM members money.... Remember their membership pool is shrinking...they need mony to pay off the retired members. Unfortunately I see that pension plan defaulting, and it is not protected like corporate Define pension plans by the government.

 

[JimmyBop]

If the majority of those in the iam plan wanted to stay in it, why wouldn't you just stay in it? Unless something has changed in the plan, iam membership (or lack there of) is NOT a deal breaker

Either way, if you have contractual language that contributions are to made to a retirement vehicle and that for what ever reason changes on the receiving end ... AA wouldn't simply get to keep the money - that was a lie we were told at UAL when trying to vote out the iam as well.

According to the fund website...
Is the IAM National Pension Fund a part of the IAMAW Union?
The IAM National Pension Fund is a separate entity from the IAMAW Union. While the National Pension Plan is funded by contributing employers, it was created for the sole benefit of IAM members who have negotiated the plan into their collective bargaining agreements.

 

[1AA]

With IAM pension in the Red. I doubt they will not take the x IAM members money.... Remember their membership pool is shrinking...they need mony to pay off the retired members. Unfortunately I see that pension plan defaulting, and it is not protected like corporate Define pension plans by the government.

You just described a Pyramid scheme.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

According to the fund website...
Is the IAM National Pension Fund a part of the IAMAW Union?
The IAM National Pension Fund is a separate entity from the IAMAW Union. While the National Pension Plan is funded by contributing employers, it was created for the sole benefit of IAM members who have negotiated the plan into their collective bargaining agreements.

If you were at the website you should've kept reading ...

https://www.iamnpf.org/about-us/faqs-about-us#is-participation-in-the-plan-limited-to-iam-members

Is participation in the plan limited to IAM members?

No. Companies with participating IAM members can include other collectively bargained and certain non-union or special-class employees in the plan.

FYI - this was the very next question under the one you quoted.

 

[dfw gen]

According to the fund website...
Is the IAM National Pension Fund a part of the IAMAW Union?
The IAM National Pension Fund is a separate entity from the IAMAW Union. While the National Pension Plan is funded by contributing employers, it was created for the sole benefit of IAM members who have negotiated the plan into their collective bargaining agreements.

i think this bears repeating:

Is the IAM National Pension Fund a part of the IAMAW Union?
The IAM National Pension Fund is a separate entity from the IAMAW Union. While the National Pension Plan is funded by contributing employers, it was created for the sole benefit of IAM members who have negotiated the plan into their collective bargaining agreements.
If you were at the website you should've kept reading ...

Is participation in the plan limited to IAM members?
No. Companies with participating IAM members can include other collectively bargained and certain non-union or special-class employees in the plan.
FYI - this was the very next question under the one you quoted.

 

[swamt]

Exactly what is going on now. AA mechanics promising IAM mechanics a guaranteed bump up in 401k company match so they give up their guaranteed pension for 4 years despite the fact that AA in a pandemic will tell them "not our problem, see you at the end of the contract...and then some" and all the other empty promises they have been telling card drive after card drive...all orchestrated by the top dogs at AMFA. DON'T SIGN AN AMFA CARD!

Wrong! Misinformation.
No one is guaranteeing anything. AA as well as AMFA (if they did win an election) could refuse to open the contract until Amendable date is reached. If AMFA does prevail AMFA has said they would look at nego an equal match to a 401K for all members, not separate plans for members in the same work group as they have currently.
JimmyBop, stop with the lies and misinformation. Nothing that is going on at AA about the card drive and new representation is orchestrated by the top dogs at AMFA, PERIOD. So far it has been only a grass roots efforts by employees and members of AA and the asso. doing the organization of the card drive at AA for a mechanics class and craft union. Those gentlemen do have contacts with AMFA National to answer ongoing questions and answers.

If you were at the website you should've kept reading ...


FYI - this was the very next question under the one you quoted.

Exactly why they should NEVER listen to the asso. members and what they say. Do your own homework, as the asso. and even AA will tell you what you wanna hear not the real info.

i think this bears repeating:

Is the IAM National Pension Fund a part of the IAMAW Union?
The IAM National Pension Fund is a separate entity from the IAMAW Union. While the National Pension Plan is funded by contributing employers, it was created for the sole benefit of IAM members who have negotiated the plan into their collective bargaining agreements.
If you were at the website you should've kept reading ...

Is participation in the plan limited to IAM members?
No. Companies with participating IAM members can include other collectively bargained and certain non-union or special-class employees in the plan.
FYI - this was the very next question under the one you quoted.

It does bears repeating. Because the asso members will say anything to scare the membership away from voting for AMFA when a vote is announced.

 

[767 mechanic]

Just wanted to let everyone know that we have filed the cards with the NMB.

 

[chellow]

Just wanted to let everyone know that we have filed the cards with the NMB.

The best news all year from AA.