Amfa Informational Meeting

[AMFAMAN]

I believe the TWU does do way to many pajama parties and cocktail get togethers with the company...but so would your AMFA elected officials...AA would laugh them into court. There is no "win" scenerio with AA.

[post="262271"][/post]​

So when does it stop or better yet when do we stop it. It cannot change under the twu, as that has been proven for years. Hell, Jim Little just recently stated that communication is the only problem with the union. I think we can agree, pajama parties are more of a problem than communication. So I ask, what should we do 2007? I'm not going to sit here, do nothing, throw in the towel on the industry and just watch the years go by. You got a better idea 2007, I'm listening.

 

[DECISION 2007]

So when does it stop or better yet when do we stop it.

You will stop, or "it" will stop as soon as AA matches 3rd party labor wages and benefits. If you feel, AMFAMAN, bringing in AMFA is your way of fighting the industry change, the fight to bring unionism back to the floor, then who am I to tell you better brother. However , I have yet to see AMFA show signs of possessing the ability to change the price of crude oil, or to demand higher cost/seat mile.

I have seen this happen in my short tenure with AA AMFAMAN. I have been witness to the union changing with times. I , for one, would have rather seen TWA go belly up, or possibly survive on it's own, than to have been involved with a union that goes to Christmas parties, company parties, and dinner get togethers with my elected union officials. Should unions be adaptive, absolutely! However brother, I do not see this style of union management working to the betterment of unionism. Now the union is involved with "anything that is for the betterment of the company"...I just quoted a union steward when asked why would my upper union officials be going out to dinner with upper management...did the union pay the bill, I wonder.

Is it not, in most contracts, that the company is responsible for providing a 40 hour workweek? How many joint committees does your local have? JLT? ALT? JCC?...and more?

My idea AMFAMAN, whether better or not is debateable also, would be to perform an operation and seperate the Siamese Twins...the AA and the TWU. I believe this has to occur prior to another step forward. Do you think Dave Campbell and Pat Stewart laugh aloud when alone? I do.

 

[AMFAMAN]

Do you think Dave Campbell and Pat Stewart laugh aloud when alone? I do.

[post="262285"][/post]​

That's not all they do but some things are better not said. I've heard about the wild headquarters parties that took place when we signed off on the 95 contract. :down:


Many of us have tried the operation of separating these twins but have never succeeded. We have gone the convention route of changing the twu. We got guys in office with good intentions only to be run over by the Intl. The members stick up for the officers, next thing you know the compAAny is pulling checks out of that station and laying off members.

One of my main reason for pushing AMFA going back to 1998 is to bring unionism back to the floor at AA. This as a result of seeing what the twu was doing in the 90's. Yes the concessions accelerated the drive but for years we have had solid core support. I do believe that with new leadership that is accountable to the membership, the AMFA at AA could be a strong union.

BTW...Currently we have at least 3 or 4 committees with about a dozen off the clock(paid by the company) to hold hands with the company. Hell, even Mike Quill has to be rolling in his grave at that crap.

I am sorry that TWAers had to witness this style of unionism that the twu is proud of. I have many friends who worked for TWA and each of them says the same thing; "I wish you just let us die on our own."

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

As stated earlier Ken, it's all about the dues money, AMFA, TWU, IAM, IBT, they are all concerned about that monthly intake. Do you honestly believe that AA would rather have the TWU than AMFA because of the mean AMFA reputation you seem to think they hold? Accountability? So you believe that because the AMFA REPS CAN BE BOOTED OUT QUICKLY THAT YOU'LL EVER SEE IT? Name one AMFA rep in any AMFA local, that has lost his job, internationally or not , due to a democratic vote. This is the one item you continually throw out, is it really used by AMFA as much as it is used by AMFA's organizers? Without bashing AMFA, Ken, AMFA really hasn't gained to hell of a lot for any airline it currently reps, now has it? They have done what? Extended a contract, they have gone from the "NO CONCESSIONS" stance to a much more humble stance.

All unions have their strong points and their weaknesses. The unions are not our current problem within our profession. The cost of crude oil and the cut throat antics of competing airlines combined with the outsourcing is our downfall. The TWU, IAM , IBT, AMFA, will not see a return of the union power afforded in the 60's or the 70's. There have been way to many other factors thrown into play, such as the continual decline of union membership...what are we now? 13% or so?

I believe this Ken, I believe the TWU does do way to many pajama parties and cocktail get togethers with the company...but so would your AMFA elected officials...AA would laugh them into court. There is no "win" scenerio with AA.

[post="262271"][/post]​

2007, money does make the world go around. We can agree on that. And yes, unions like companies need it to survive. However, I believe that the twu has lost their priorities. They have put the needs of the international in front of those of the membership. Like a company a union will lose money and make money over time. The more members the more money; pretty basic. But at what price does a union pay, like the twu has, to sell out their members? I do believe that AA prefers the twu over AMFA. With a union like the twu having pajama parties and diners with the company why would AA want anyone else?

I do not think AMFA has a "mean reputation". I do believe that they bring more credability to the table than the twu does. As for accountability in AMFA people have been removed from office because they did not perform to the membership's wishes. Who they are is easy for you to find out. Just ask the AMFA International.

I know for a fact that AMFA faced the most anti-labor management at NWA and a nasty NMB as well as a PEB and still got their members a huge raise after the iam said they got the last nickel prior to the iam being removed. I know they have listened to their members at Alaska and SWA.

I can also comprehend that fuel is a negative force currently affecting our industry and cut throat idiotic actions by management does not help. But I am tired for being the endless cookie jar to which the company puts their hand into when they get hungry.

As for unions not having the power they enjoyed in the past there is only one place that blame, (for lack of a better term), can rest. And that is with the leadership of the afl-cio. Can it be regained? Who knows. But it will not happen with people who do nothing and accept whatever is done to their profession.

2007, what makes you think pajama parties will continue when AMFA comes on the property? These twu pajama party participants go because the twu has given true AMTs no hope in protecting their profession and mostly self serving individuals are the ones the twu has to do their bidding.

If you believe that there are too many pajama parties and cocktail parties why do you still support the twu? You have seen how the twu will not "change from within" first hand 2007. I am not attacking your belief I'm just wondering why you support the real destructive force against our proud profession.

 

[Buck]

Why can you not answer the question?

Question: Why does the TWU grant concessions when the airline is making money or losing money?

 

[Checking it Out]

Simple, The TWU Understands the industry and the membership. Amfa can only dream of this concept!

Amfa is the worst contract negotiators in the Industry by far!!!!!! Follow them down the path to self destruction?

How is the grievance going at Alaska concerning the closing of the maintenance base last Year?

As for the info meeting? I think it will be a farce as usual! Amfa has no chance to win an election at AA!

 

[Hopeful]

Where is the TWU on the outsourcing issue?






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Press Release Source: AMFA NATIONAL


AMFA Asks for a Congressional Hearing on Outsourcing
Thursday April 14, 2:20 pm ET


LACONIA, NH--(MARKET WIRE)--Apr 14, 2005 -- The Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association wants to make Congress aware of the anti-safety culture that has developed in most airlines in the U.S. To promote this awareness, AMFA is submitting a written request for a Congressional hearing on outsourcing to the Transportation and Infrastructure Aviation Subcommittee in the immediate future, said O.V. Delle-Femine, National Director of AMFA. Aircraft mechanics employed in the airline industry are preparing for the hearings.
ADVERTISEMENT


The magnitude of the safety issue was revealed when Northwest Airlines gave an aircraft mechanic, Ted Ludwig, a sixty-day suspension because he disclosed safety concerns in a public forum where reporters were present. Mr. Delle-Femine further says that NWA and UAL have in the past disciplined aircraft mechanics for uncovering maintenance discrepancies.

"Our job is to inspect and repair the aircraft when we find maintenance problems, regardless of the area," he said. "We are legally and morally bound by our training and by Federal Air Regulations to report any discrepancy, and should be able to do so without experiencing the intimidation and harassment we find in the industry today. Unfortunately, the Federal Aviation Administration avoids involvement by stating that discipline by the airlines is a labor-management problem, although the FAA has regulatory oversight over safety. We find ourselves alone fighting for the safety of the aircraft and against intimidation by the airlines and the bureaucracy of the FAA itself.

"The recent disturbing report of 28 undocumented workers arrested at TIMCO, at least one of whom had been working there for 10 years without proper papers, amplifies the inadequate inspection of outsourced repair facilities by the federal government, or by their own management. We believe that this is just the tip of the iceberg. The flying public would not fly on an aircraft if they knew it was piloted by an unlicensed pilot. Why would they fly on an aircraft maintained by unlicensed mechanics?

"We are dismayed at the pussyfooting by the Minnesota State Senators in their interrogation of NWA CEO Doug Steenland regarding his business plans and expansion that will greatly reduce jobs at the MSP base and exacerbate the problems associated with outsourcing. There were no hard questions for the NWA CEO by the Senators, which was extremely disappointing to our members," Delle-Femine said.

AMFA represents aircraft mechanics and related personnel employed at Alaska Airlines, ATA, Independence Air, Horizon Air, Mesaba Airlines, Northwest Airlines, Southwest Airlines and United Airlines.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Simple, The TWU Understands the industry and the membership. Amfa can only dream of this concept!

Amfa is the worst contract negotiators in the Industry by far!!!!!! Follow them down the path to self destruction?

How is the grievance going at Alaska concerning the closing of the maintenance base last Year?

As for the info meeting? I think it will be a farce as usual! Amfa has no chance to win an election at AA!

[post="262368"][/post]​

Hey! Look who is back spreading the twu mantra! cio, you are certainly dense. The twu understands the industry and the membership? Mixing illegal drugs can do harm. STOP!

Why would AMFA "dream" about the twu concept of having officials appointed instead of elected? Why would AMFA "dream" of the twu concept of removing officers because they represented their membership's wishes? Why would AMFA "dream" of the twu concept of the union controlling the contract and not the members?

Going through life an ignorant coward is no way to go through life.

 

[James T. Kirk]

Last update: April 13, 2005 at 9:08 PM
NWA to cut 600 jobs in July
Liz Fedor, Star Tribune
April 14, 2005 NWA0414



Northwest Airlines said Wednesday that it will cut 600 mechanics' jobs in the Twin Cities in July.

The news was not a shock -- the airline disclosed in mid-March that it would ground 30 DC-9 aircraft this year, triggering up to 900 job cuts among mechanics.

"I'm just surprised that this was announced the day after [Northwest CEO] Doug Steenland told the Senate committee about the condition of the airline," said Ted Ludwig, president of Local 33 of the Aircraft Mechanics Fraternal Association (AMFA).

By taking planes out of service, Northwest is reducing its need for the mechanics who do heavy maintenance.

Northwest management explained the layoff timetable in meetings with workers Wednesday, Ludwig said. About 450 jobs will be cut in line maintenance and another 150 jobs will be reduced in the shops that support that maintenance work, he added.

Bill Mellon, a Northwest spokesman, confirmed Wednesday that the airline had notified AMFA members about the pending 600 job cuts. Mellon added that layoff notices were previously announced for 140 positions. By July, Northwest expects to achieve 740 of the 900 job cuts in the Twin Cities.

Jeff Mathews, contract coordinator for AMFA, said the first group of AMFA members received reduction-in-force notices during the week of April 4.

High fuel costs and weak pricing power on airline tickets were cited as reasons for the airline's decision to shrink its fleet.

Steenland talked about those factors Tuesday when he testified before the Minnesota Senate Transportation Committee.

He stressed that the airline is attempting to transform its cost structure so it can compete with low-fare airlines and big carriers that have reduced their labor costs.

"Like the state of Minnesota, Northwest is in a position where our current cost of doing business exceeds the revenue we produce," he said.

Although Northwest is moving forward with the 740 job cuts in the Twin Cities, it is unclear precisely how many people will leave its payroll, since the mechanics' union contract includes job protection language. Some employees will accept layoffs. But others will exercise their seniority rights and take jobs elsewhere in the Northwest system.

"I'll be getting whacked here pretty soon," said Ludwig, who started working for the airline in late 1989. If he gets a layoff notice, he said, "I'm going to bump [others] as far as I can if they don't pay me severance."

Before the 2001 terrorist attacks, about 5,300 Northwest employees were represented by AMFA Local 33 based in Bloomington. By the end of March that number stood at about 3,100.

AMFA leaders are anticipating a battle with Northwest over which employees will get severance pay. Ludwig said it would be "disgraceful" if the airline doesn't pay members the severance guaranteed in the union contract. Northwest declined to comment on the difference of opinion on severance payments.

Liz Fedor is at

[email protected].

 

[Buck]

Simple, The TWU Understands the industry and the membership. Amfa can only dream of this concept!

Amfa is the worst contract negotiators in the Industry by far!!!!!! Follow them down the path to self destruction?

How is the grievance going at Alaska concerning the closing of the maintenance base last Year?

As for the info meeting? I think it will be a farce as usual! Amfa has no chance to win an election at AA!

[post="262368"][/post]​

Of course the question goes unanswered.

It is funny that you, CIO speak of contract negotiations. The TWU has a very concessionary record.

Can you answer a simple question?

 

[UAL_TECH]

[post="262437"][/post]​

Received: 04/14/05 17:59:54 EDT
Name: Ual Tech
E-Mail: [email protected]
Employer: See Name
Location: SFO
Message:

The AFA has made a bold move and threatened to rescind their contract as ‘The Company’ has not honored their obligations as is stipulated in the agreement (big surprise there). In an answer to this threat, ‘The Company’ will now seek abrogation of the AFA contract.

The AFA has just been ‘x’!!!

Look for the AFA to recant on their posturing (as they have always done in the past) and make good with their master.

All of this posturing is well and good but we are ‘all’ faced with the facts that not one Union has had the stones to back up their ‘threat’ of a strike for many years. Most of us speculated that after 3 (or 4?) rounds of capitulation from USAir that one of their Unions would have had the wherewithal to say ‘ENOUGH’!!!

(Much less discuss the Unions out of BK that have bobbed the knob)

However, they didn’t and now they are resigned to ‘their’ fate! But their lack of intestinal fortitude has contributed to the decimation of our futures. The baton is passed (once again) to the next group as we play musical chairs. We will ‘all’ (as the circle continues) play this game until “WE†have had enough and take a stand.

This reaction by ‘The Company’ is not only for the AFA, but serves as a warning for all the Union represented employees that have not agreed to ‘join in the plan’ (whatever that may be) here at the ‘Lazy U’. The final words from ‘The Company’ is for ‘ALL’ of us to ‘capitulate’ or ‘abrogate’, as it does not matter to them which way the axe falls. ‘The Company’ is in firm belief that ‘Da Judge’ will not only allow abrogation of our contracts but will block a strike action as well.

The current situation was not caused by ‘US’!!!

It is time that the ‘Battered Wife’ syndrome in the industry is stopped!!!

It is time for ‘US’ to stand erect!!!

JMHO,
UT

TM, Thanks for the space dude!
You are certainly welcome. - TM

UT

 

[Checking it Out]

Amfa= Largest percentage of members on layoff and the worse contract language negotiated in the industry!

 

[Decision 2004]

Amfa= Largest percentage of members on layoff and the worse contract language negotiated in the industry!

[post="262484"][/post]​

Kevin,

Tell us all again how the concessions saved 12,000 jobs and three maintenance bases at American Airlines.

That particular story of yours is my favorite and have not heard it in awhile!

Tell why we should trust one of the 46 S.E.R.P. Recipients (Carmine).

Tell how the membership voted 3 times against building a union hall, but it will happen anyway.

Tell us the current outsource percentage at AA.

Tell us limit on outsourced work.

Tell us why MCI couldn't get third party work to stay afloat but Tulsa can.

It is easy to throw stones, but what about your glass house?

 

[UAL_TECH]

Amfa= Largest percentage of members on layoff and the worse contract language negotiated in the industry!

[post="262484"][/post]​

Two or three more givebacks and we will be making as much as you!!!


Rumor is that the TWU is getting in shape to race across our picket line.
Yea, you all have my respect

B) UT

 

[Hopeful]

Simple, The TWU Understands the industry and the membership. Amfa can only dream of this concept!

Amfa is the worst contract negotiators in the Industry by far!!!!!! Follow them down the path to self destruction?

How is the grievance going at Alaska concerning the closing of the maintenance base last Year?

As for the info meeting? I think it will be a farce as usual! Amfa has no chance to win an election at AA!

[post="262368"][/post]​

I see you failed to mentioned the wonderful 1995 6 1/2% for 6 year industry leading contract.