Kc Informational Meeting

[MCI AFL-CIO]

I would like to say, "nice to have met you also". However, you apparently still cower behind your alias, because you DID NOT identifiy yourself to me, thus we DID NOT MEET as far as I am concerned. Do you understand the proper and accepted way to "meet someone"?


Dave, Im sorry Dave, I thought a handshake and nice to meet you and giving my name was proper procedure? Yeah Dave you slammed me, ok, I give, Guess I was not that valuable of a guest for you to remember me, Thats ok Dave, I have always been genuine to you onthis board, now I see the real you comes shinig thru, It Is true, people who live in glass houses should not throw stones


I never said "get over it" when it came to your senioirty. I said "it would be a minority issue

MyApologies Dave, It was Don Rodgers who stood at the front desk saying "Get Over It"..............you were the one who said, And I appreciate your answer, You said " I am an honest man, I wont come here and say somethingyou want to hear, I will tell you the truth and the truth is if your number 1 goal at contract talks is to win back senority issues and Tulsas number 1 goal is to obtain more vacation, under AMFA we would listen to the majority"
Dave forgive me, Im not coming here to preach over my senority, that is not a major concern to me, I never plan to leave MCI, and Im happy with my senority here, the point Im trying to make here is, what you asnwered for me "In a majority Rule Union Structure" meaning, that AMFA will listen but will not always answer you, correct? Translation: if another local has more members, under AMFA they work the majority?


I also told everyone that "AMFA is not the solution to your seniority" problem. Would you rather me speak what you want to hear, or the TRUTH? AMFA is the answer to our eroding profession, not a white knight to fix the TWA/AA Seniority issue. If you are looking for that white knight, I would suggest you go to the Federal Courts.



Dave, I appreciate you telling the audience that AMFA is not the solution, but I disagree with your response that AMFA is the choice to our eroding profession......in my opinion and I know your going to"slam" me again, but our profession is eroded because of the constant RAID by AMFA
Dave once again, Im not concerned with the senority issue, its over, "GET OVER IT"



Contrary to what you are propagating, AMFA support cannot be guaged on meeting attendance. Your own TWU phone survey will prove that true. So will the NMB ballot soon enough


Dave, I am not propagating anything, I stated that while this meeting at MCI was billed as informational, it was AMFAs way of finding what support there was at MCI, why else would the top brass be here? If in deed it was an informational meeting, that could have been handled by you, Don Rodgers, Dan Cunningham, and Chuck Schalk. Dave, I am for democracy, Im for an election, I do not hide behind or run from this, I feel secure in knowing the outcome, either way, I and you will survive, what worried me Dave, is that while we have the TWU, we have resistance, and IF we have AMFA, we will have resistance, neither a pleasantry? Is this a value of life?



Yes, I was shocked by the F word when used by Seham. But everything he was making reference to when used was fact! You are probabaly correct about TWU meetings and bad language.



Dave, true Im a grown man, but I will not use that lnaguage to describe or infatuate an audience, I do not want an open apolgy from Lee Seham, we all know how valid that would be, dont we? Sure its easy to saw sorry but to actually mean it? the harm is done, he was blowinghis own horn I know , He got carreid away, and what was it..............2 minutes after Kevin gave the guidelines? Oh boy, we want him as our lawyer, he dont understnad guidelines and he makes rules?

does using that language to you Dave when he was stating a fact make it ok to say? With zero tolerance at AA Dave, How many members have been fired just by walking by 2 individuals and hearing ina general conversation that word used?
What would his consequences be Dave if I did come forward with my name and hear is unfaithful apology?




Sorry if you were offended, if I knew your name and address, I would get you a personal apology from Lee. Of course you are not man enough to go there. So let's just say, that your complaints (attendance, flag, pledge, prayer) have some validity, but if we addressed those, you would just hide behind your alias and complain about something else

Dave did I hit a nerve? why the unfriendly remark about my being a man? go where Dave? Its ok for him to talk that way because he is PROPER, he is AMFA,
Dave besides his language, what else did I complain of? I only gave my opinion, my notes of the AMFA meeting at MCI, You agree they are valid then you SLAM me again and again, What good would it do to announce my name Dave, You already forgot me, my handshake didnt leave a lasting impression?
Dave, of the AMFA meetings you have attended, did the membership, recite the Pledge? have a moment of silence? or is it that this was an informational meeting so its ok, to not even salute the flag?

Dave, thank you for the apology, genuine, sincere, Dave, I wil say here, and I am genuinely Sincere Dave, I am not perfect, but you will never hear me call you a name, unless in greatness, you will never hear me use vulgar language around or in the presence of women, and usually not in presence of men, its not needed, and I will never say a discouraging word to anyone and wish death or harm to another, never hear a threatening word from me Dave



Now I have answered a few questions of yours WILL YOU NOW ANSWER SOME FROM ME?


Dave ask away, Im not an officer, but I will try to answer and If I can I will get an answer, thats in my opinion is what this board is to used for, not for namecalling

 

[deadbolt]

Was there a flag there??? I have an AMFA flag would you like to salute that, like les howard???


Here is what you will always have with the TWU! No Questions!

SENIORITY QUESTIONS & ANSWERS - 7-22-2002
To: all Local Presidents 501-590
Seniority Integration Arbitration decision for Fleet Service/Maintenance/Stores/Simulator Technicians
Background

Single Carrier Update

In December 2001, the TWU petitioned the NMB (National Mediation Board) to declare "single carrier" status at AA and TWA LLC. On March 27, 2002, the NMB determined that AA and TWA LLC are a single transportation system for purposes of labor representation. Included in the ruling was an opportunity for the IAM, within thirty (30) days (4/26/02), to provide a showing of interest of 35% or more to the NMB, which would then trigger an election for the representation. On April 29, 2002 the NMB formally notified AA that the IAM did not provide a showing of interest by the deadline and therefore vacated the representation of the IAM and certified the TWU as the bargaining representative for the Fleet Service Clerks, Aircraft Mechanics, Facility/Auto Mechanics, Stock Clerks and Simulator Technicians at TWA LLC. Dispatchers were already represented by the TWU at TWA LLC. The NMB is still determining the proper NMB class or Instructors or craft for the Technical Specialists, Ground School Instructors and Pilot Simulator Instructors. All of these groups at AA continue to be represented by the TWU; their representation status at TWA LLC will not change until the NMB completes its process as to those groups.

Seniority Arbitration Decision Update

On January 17, the IAM and the TWU informed American that they had agreed to enter into binding arbitration regarding the seniority integration of their respective members. This arbitration took place in Philadelphia on February 27, 28, March 1 and 11th, 2002. We have now received the decision and these talking points are to assist you in understanding the decision and responding to employee inquiries.

Arbitration Decision - Seniority Integration

Richard Kasher Esq, the arbitrator, has decided the following for the integration of the seniority lists of the TWA LLC Mechanic and related employees into the respective AA/TWU employee groups:

1. STL/MCI stationed employees (all classifications):

* Will retain TWA LLC job (Occupational) seniority so long as the employee remains at the station and in the classification;

* If employee relocates to another station outside STL/MCI due to a transfer or reduction in force, employee will have a 4/10/01 Occupational Seniority date or a percentage of their seniority depending on the location they transfer to and when. (To be explained further below).

* AA employees at STL will be blended in Occupational seniority based on their AA Occupational Seniority with the TWA LLC employees within the appropriate classification.

* MCI includes the overhaul base only. MCI terminal will be viewed as a separate station outside of the MCI overhaul base(See below).

Arbitrator's rationale:

* The arbitrator was guided by his obligation per Section 3 and 13 of the Allegheny-Mohawk labor protective provisions (which were incorporated into the TWU/AA contract) to treat TWA employees in a fair and equitable manner. He also was required to do this in a way, which did not adversely impact the rates of pay, hours, and working conditions of American Airlines employees. At STL and MCI, there were very limited American Airlines operations prior to the acquisition of TWA. TWA, however, had extensive operations which the IAM helped preserve. The arbitrator felt these factors gave ex-TWA employees substantial equity in and the right to exercise seniority for positions in these locations.

2. For stations outside STL/MCI:

* A 4/10/01 Occupational seniority date for those locations at which TWA LLC 's ASM (Available Seat Miles) as a percentage of AA's ASMs and TWA LLC's ASMS as of April 2001 is less than 10%.

Example: City ABC:

TWA LLC: ASMs as of 4/9/01 = 50,000
AA: ASMs as of 4/9/01 = 550,000
Total TWA LLC/AA: ASMS as of 4/9/01 = 600,000

Formula = 50,000/600,000 = 8.3%

Arbitrator's rationale:

* As stated above, in looking at the contributions in terms of assets, newtwork and/or jobs, Mr. Kasher decided to use an ASM ratio approach for the out stations. He decided on a 10% threshold since, in his opinion, TWA LLC's contributions below that level was deminimis and therefore awarded a 4/10/01 Occupational seniority date.

* The Company is in the process of determining which stations fall below or above the 10% threshold and will publish this list as soon as the analysis is complete. However, the arbitrator made clear that only April 10, 2001 seniority will be provided to incoming TWA employees at the TUL and AFW overhaul facilities and at Dallas, Chicago, and Miami.

* At stations above the 10% threshold, TWA LLC employees will retain 25% of their TWA LLC seniority so long as certain conditions are met:

* At each location, this seniorty credit will apply to TWA LLC employees stationed at that location once all AA employees on layoff status with recall rights and who retain recall rights to an AA classification and status at that location have been offered recall to the status and classification at that location they had been laid off from as of the date of this decision. Recall of AA employees is not mandated by this award. Recall of AA employees will be determined by operational and staffing requirements for that location.

* Upon satisfaction of 1. above, the TWA LLC employees with recall rights to the location will be recalled to fill vacancies within that classification based on their TWA LLC seniority.

Example: Station DEF: = 25%

* All AA employees have been recalled to status and classification at the station
* AA has 10 vacancies at station DEF
* TWA LLC employees with recall rights will be proffered the vacancies based on their full TWA LLC seniority order

After all jobs have been filled through 1. above and additional jobs are vacant, those jobs will be proffered to TWA LLC employees and, if accepted, the TWA LLC employee will retain 25% of his/her TWA Occupational Seniority within that station for as long as he/she remains in the station.

3. Up until the time 1. above is satisfied, TWA LLC employees who are working in either a FT or PT capacity in a classification held as of the date of the award will be provided a 4/10/01 Occupational seniority date.

The above ASM calculation does not apply to the TULE overhaul base or AFW.

Arbitrator's rationale:

* As stated above, in looking at the contributions in terms of assets, network and/or jobs, Mr. Kasher decided to use an ASM ratio approach for the out stations at which the threshold was met. This approach is used to establish the level of jobs TWA LLC employees brought to the combined carrier. In theory, the additional jobs would not have been available to AA employees had it not been for the TWA acquisition. He decided on a 10% threshold since, in his opinion, TWA LLC's contributions above that were significant and deserved consideration for seniority. However, this seniority recognition is conditioned on the recall of AA employees, since it would adversely impact an AA employee on the master seniority list if it was imposed prior to the recall of AA employees. The 25% (twenty-five percent) credit of TWA LLC seniority is based upon the arbitrator's finding that as of April, 2001, TWA ASMs represented 21% (twenty-one percent) of American Airline's total ASMs. The arbitrator also factored in an additional 4% credit in view of the additional job opportunities provided to American Airline's employees by the "synergies" or additional operations created by the AA/TWA combination.

Following are answers to a few specific questions your employees may have:

FLEET SERVICE CLERKS - TWA LLC - General

Q. What happens now?

A. Now that the arbitrator has rendered his decision on seniority and the TWU has been certified as the bargaining representative for the Fleet Service employees at TWA LLC, the stage is set to integrate the two Fleet Service work groups, AA and TWA LLC. TWA LLC Fleet Service employees will officially become AA employees effective with the integration, which is expected to be completed by the end of May, 2002.

Q. Does this mean between the date of the decision and date of full integration, I am still considered a TWA LLC employee? Am I represented by the IAM or the TWU? What contract do I fall under?

A. You will remain a TWA LLC employee for this period as it relates to our information systems. However, for all other purposes you will be considered an AA employee represented by the TWU. The transition within our information systems to show you as an AA employee will occur by the end of May 2002. The IAM/TWA LLC agreement was modified back in January 2002 to mirror the AA/TWU Fleet Service, with certain exceptions, including the seniority Article. Now that the seniority decision is behind us and the TWU is the bargaining representative, the AA/TWU agreement applies.


FLEET SERVICE CLERKS - STL

Q. I am a FSC in STL with 25 years of TWA LLC seniority, what happens to my Occupational Seniority if I leave STL and transfer voluntarily or involuntarily to another AA station as a Fleet Service Clerk? If I transfer to MCI?

A. As long as you remain in STL as a Fleet Service Clerk, you will maintain your current TWA LLC seniority for purposes of Occupational seniority under the AA/TWU agreement.

If you were to leave STL, via a transfer or reduction in force, your Occupational seniority date at that station will be 4/10/01 or a percentage of your seniority depending on the location you transfer to and whether all current AA employees at that location have been recalled. If you transfer or through a reduction in force go to MCI it will be your full TWA LLC seniority.


Q. Will the AA employees at STL be blended in Occupational Seniority for bidding shifts, etc. or will they be placed ahead of TWA LLC Fleet Service whose Occupational Seniority at AA is junior to TWA LLC employees at STL? What happens when AA employees transfer into STL?

A. AA and TWA LLC employees within a classification will be blended together in Occupational seniority with TWA LLC employees retaining their full TWA LLC seniority so long as they remain at STL. This will include AA employees who subsequently transfer into STL.

Q. If I am in MSP and have a partial TWA LLC seniority and subsequently transfer to STL, do I go back to my full TWA LLC seniority in STL?

A. The partial credit for TWA LLC seniority at MSP will require that all AA employees within your classification and at your station have been recalled. Once that is satisfied and you are credited with 25% of your TWA LLC seniority and you subsequently transfer to STL, you will receive your full TWA LLC seniority at STL.

Q. I am Crew Chief at STL and the decision says we preserve our TWA LLC seniority, however, the way in which my Crew Chief seniority at TWA LLC is determined at AA does not comply with the AA/TWU agreement. What Occupational seniority will I have if I remain a Crew Chief in STL?

A. The determination of Occupational seniority for Crew Chiefs at TWA LLC was based on length of time as a Crew Chief. At AA, it is based on the time in the non-Crew Chief classification as well as the Crew Chief. Therefore, to comply with the AA/TWU contract, your seniority will be adjusted to reflect your seniority within the non-Crew Chief classification and Crew Chief classification.

Example: TWA LLC Crew Chief - FSC
TWA LLC FSC Crew Chief seniority 3/5/88
Non - Crew Chief FSC seniority (Basic Job Seniority) 2/5/78
AA Occupational seniority as a Crew Chief: 2/5/78



FLEET SERVICE CLERKS - TWA LLC - Other than STL/MCI based

Q. How will I know my station is one that exceeds the 10% ASM threshold?

A. The Company will be computing the ASMs for each station where TWA LLC and AA employees are stationed. Once the analysis is complete we will notify the TWU and the IAM of the stations that exceed the threshold and then will communicate the results to the employees. We can safely say at this time that LAX/SFO and JFK exceed the 10% threshold.

Q. If I am an employee at a station where it exceeds the 10% threshold, when can I expect to have my 25% seniority credit?

A. It is hard to say at this point and it will vary by location since it is dependent on the recall of AA employees with recall rights at that station. Since recall is based on the operation and the staffing needs of that station it will depend on that stations recall list and growth. We know some stations in some classifications have already recalled all AA employee with recall rights. Therefore, as soon as there are vacancies at those stations former TWA LLC employees, as they fill those vacancies, will receive the 25% seniority credit.

AIRCRAFT MAINTENANCE TECHNICIANS/STOCK CLERKS - TWA LLC - General

Q. What happens now?

A. Now that the arbitrator has rendered his decision on seniority and the TWU has been certified as the bargaining representative for the Mechanic and related employees at TWA LLC, the stage is set to finalize the terms of the integration of the two work groups, AA and TWA LLC.

Q. Does this mean between the date of the decision and date of full integration, I am still considered a TWA LLC employee? Am I represented by the IAM or the TWU? What contract do I fall under?

A. You will remain a TWA LLC employee for this period of time as it relates to our information systems, however, for all other purposes you will be considered an AA employee represented by the TWU. The transition within our information systems to show you as an AA employee will occur by the end of May 2002. The IAM/TWA LLC agreement was modified back in January 2002 to mirror the AA/TWU Mechanic and related contract, with certain exceptions, including the seniority Article. Now that the seniority decision is behind us and the TWU is the bargaining representative, the AA/TWU agreement applies. However, particularly for AMTs and other classifications, there are issues that arise from falling under the AA/TWU agreement that must be resolved with the TWU before the full integration of the workforce can be completed.

Q. Will there be a furlough of TWA LLC employees as a result of the seniority integration decision?

A. The need for future furloughs will be determined based on the operational and business needs of the Company, not by the seniority award in the arbitration. Although, seniority determines who may get laid off as a result of a reduction in force, it is business necessity, not relative seniority, which drives the decision to further reduce the workforce. If there is a decIsion to reduce the workforce within Aircraft Maintenance we will communicate that decision to the TWU and the employees.


AIRCRAFT MAINTENANCE TECHNICIANS/STOCK CLERKS - TWA LLC-STL/MCI

Q. I am an AMT in STL or MCI with 25 years of TWA LLC seniority, what happens to my Occupational Seniority if I leave STL and/or MCI and transfer voluntarily or involuntarily to another AA station as an AMT? If it is between the base at MCI or STL?

A. As long as you remain in STL or the base at MCI as an AMT, you will maintain your current TWA LLC seniority for purposes of Occupational Seniority under the AA/TWU agreement.

If you were to leave STL or MCI, via a transfer or reduction in force, your Occupational seniority date at that station will be 4/10/01 or a percentage of their seniority depending on the location they transfer to and when. If you transfer or through a reduction in force go from STL to the base at MCI or vice versa it will be your TWA LLC seniority.

Q. I am Crew Chief at STL and the decision says we preserve our TWA LLC seniority. However, my Crew Chief seniority at TWA LLC does not comply with the AA/TWU agreement. What Occupational Seniority will I have if I remain a Crew Chief in STL?

A. The determination of Occupational seniority for Crew Chiefs at TWA LLC was based on length of time as a Crew Chief. At AA, it is based on the time in the non-Crew Chief classification as well as the Crew Chief. Therefore, to comply with the AA/TWU contract, your seniority will be adjusted to reflect your seniority within the non-Crew Chief classification and Crew Chief classification.

Example: TWA LLC Crew Chief - AMT
TWA LLC AMT Crew Chief seniority 3/5/88
Non - Crew Chief AMT seniority (Basic Job Seniority) 2/5/78
AA Occupational seniority as an AMT Crew Chief: 2/5/78


SIMULATOR TECHNICIANS - STL

Q. I am a Simulator Technician at TWA LLC, what will my seniority be while stationed at STL? When the simulators relocate to DFW and I transfer with the work, what will my seniority be at DFW?

A. As long as you remain in STL you will maintain your current TWA LLC seniority for purposes of Occupational Seniority. Upon transfer or relocation to GSW (DFW), your seniority date will be 4/10/01.

Note: if you have any further questions E-mail [email protected]