AMFA Drive started in Tulsa ?

[Buck]

And that same representative advised you to vote yes on the July 2010 TA that would have raised us to number two behind WN if we had voted yes. Did you forget that? Remember we are following the path of vote no until we get something better? At least that's what Bob, Schalk, Ruiz, Rojas, Petersen, and Pike said. I am still waiting for that kick ass deal!

If this was the business world, they would have made a unilateral decision like most management does. Not ask the employees if they agree with the raise they just got for them. Since we are in a union you got to vote no. Now you are blaming the Int'l for something that they advised we take because they believed BK was a definite possibility. You and the other no voters chose believe the Quorum of Fools (Owens, Ruiz, Pike, Schalk, etc...) that BK was a threat and there was riches to be had if we voted no. So far, almost five years later, we now have a bad LBO that we voted down with the prospect of an even more hideous deal due to abrogation. But Bob and his buddies are saying keep voting no because the pay day is coming. Right.

So the Int'l advises vote yes on a deal that would have raised our comp to number two in the industry and kept outsourcing at 10% and Bob recommends vote no and we are faced with number eight in pay and 40% outsourcing and you say fire the Int'l reps? Okay.

Question Overspeed: When you calculate the wage rankings in the industry, do you use algebra and factor in the OSM?

 

[TWU informer]

Very good, I agree. Now, answer this... How many members ( active on payroll ) does AMFA have? How many members ( unemployed ) does AMFA have ? So the question is how many did they have before the hardline " our way or the highway" and now?

TWU M&R headcount has dropped by more than 5,000 since 2003 concessions for jobs. By October TWO Maintenace Bases will be shuttered. How is that concessions for jobs program working the AMT's? How many will be unemployed by August?
How many TWA members were there before they became represented by TWU? Again, is the Union's job to hire, fire, or employ AMT's?

Ask the same questions regarding the TWU as you keep asking over and over about AMFA!!!

Do you drink Fear-Berry flavored Kool-Aid daily that makes you unable to see the failures of industrial unionism?

 

[strikeforce]

And that same representative advised you to vote yes on the July 2010 TA that would have raised us to number two behind WN if we had voted yes. Did you forget that? Remember we are following the path of vote no until we get something better? At least that's what Bob, Schalk, Ruiz, Rojas, Petersen, and Pike said. I am still waiting for that kick ass deal!

If this was the business world, they would have made a unilateral decision like most management does. Not ask the employees if they agree with the raise they just got for them. Since we are in a union you got to vote no. Now you are blaming the Int'l for something that they advised we take because they believed BK was a definite possibility. You and the other no voters chose believe the Quorum of Fools (Owens, Ruiz, Pike, Schalk, etc...) that BK was a threat and there was riches to be had if we voted no. So far, almost five years later, we now have a bad LBO that we voted down with the prospect of an even more hideous deal due to abrogation. But Bob and his buddies are saying keep voting no because the pay day is coming. Right.

So the Int'l advises vote yes on a deal that would have raised our comp to number two in the industry and kept outsourcing at 10% and Bob recommends vote no and we are faced with number eight in pay and 40% outsourcing and you say fire the Int'l reps? Okay.

Show me exactly where the INTL advised a Yes vote? And, one that followed with Yes video's? Didn't Local 514 vote down the July 2010 T/A? What vote was Hewitt backing at that time?

The INTL couldn't sell either one....because they were both POS agreements.

 

[Frank Szabo]

Question Overspeed: When you calculate the wage rankings in the industry, do you use algebra and factor in the OSM?

 

[strikeforce]

And that same representative advised you to vote yes on the July 2010 TA that would have raised us to number two behind WN if we had voted yes. Did you forget that? Remember we are following the path of vote no until we get something better? At least that's what Bob, Schalk, Ruiz, Rojas, Petersen, and Pike said. I am still waiting for that kick ass deal!

If this was the business world, they would have made a unilateral decision like most management does. Not ask the employees if they agree with the raise they just got for them. Since we are in a union you got to vote no. Now you are blaming the Int'l for something that they advised we take because they believed BK was a definite possibility. You and the other no voters chose believe the Quorum of Fools (Owens, Ruiz, Pike, Schalk, etc...) that BK was a threat and there was riches to be had if we voted no. So far, almost five years later, we now have a bad LBO that we voted down with the prospect of an even more hideous deal due to abrogation. But Bob and his buddies are saying keep voting no because the pay day is coming. Right.

So the Int'l advises vote yes on a deal that would have raised our comp to number two in the industry and kept outsourcing at 10% and Bob recommends vote no and we are faced with number eight in pay and 40% outsourcing and you say fire the Int'l reps? Okay.

Maybe you were one of the few that knew AA was going BK. The other 99.9% of the membership weren't privy to that information. I recall that the TWU inserted a brochure that gave the INTL authroity to strike if voting NO. Why didn't the INTL insert a BK threat letter....if they obviously knew AA would file BK if I voted NO?? That's because.....nobody knew AA was going to file BK until the pilots rejected their proposals.

 

[Frank Szabo]

That certainly was nice of you, Mr. Buck, to spell "algebra" and "OSM" for overspeed.

... or is that "p'osm"?
[sharedmedia=core:attachments:9473]

 

[TWU informer]

It was a joke, so many have said Im a TWU officer in sheeps clothing..So I wanted to play the part. You know, play along

AMFA has provided and alternative to Industrial Unionism to all AMT's since the early 1960's. In contrast, all AFL-CIO Unions are bound by the "No-Raid" clause/provision that affords the union member zero competition in representation and no alternative to a failing form of Unionism.

And although, given your reasons for bashing AMFA, you will disagree with me on this, the fact is, it is not within the Union Function to employee, hire, or fire any AMT's of the industry. That happens to be the function of Corporations, Share Holders, i.e. the rich that the AFL-CIO and the TWU appear to have hatred for and against. Class Warfare is not the answer here.

Go review what NWA Management was demanding from the AMT's of AMFA when that strike happened there. Those demands were not far off from what has been voted against here at AA. Only real difference is we have no option to legally strike and those AMT's were given permission by the NMB to do so. You keep mumbling about AMFA having a my way or the highway approach, when in fact it was NWA Management that was taking that approach in those negotiations, asking for larger cuts that you are about to witness right here at AA soon. Go read the facts about what the Management demands were and quit blaming AMFA AMT's for taking a stand against the Corporate Greed that James C Little and the TWU only talk about challenging. You blame a group of AMT's for taking the ultimate stand against Corporate Greed, and instead favor the roll-over approach and want the skilled to fund employment for those are not skilled or needed from the view of the corporate level.

The United Airlines AMT's would not be represented by the Teamsters right now if not for AMFA, because the No Raid clause would have prevented a change from the IAM to the Teamsters without the AMFA representation in the interim.

Just as AA has taken a take or leave it approach to AMT negotiations since 2008, so too was NWA Management prior to that strike at the carrier.

Industrial Unionism is a valid form of representation as long as you agree that your skill and responsibility has no more value than a non-skilled employee. If you favor giving concessions from a craft or skilled group to maintain employment for the non-skilled. If you agree with this idea, then you are indeed an industrial unionist and have no interest in craft unionism, but then I would have to ask you where do you draw the line,and where is your limit of charity production?

Nowhere in the TWU Consitution under "objectives" does it say that this Union's direction is too give away pay and benefits to save of create jobs. In fact the TWU Constitution states just the opposite under objectives of the organization.

I would love to hear your explanation and understanding about where you developed the idea that Union's function is to hire, fire, or provide employment for workers? We live in a Capitalist Society, and you desire to create some form of hybrid government that is half socialism, half captialism, while maintaining all of your freedoms. IF you wish to convert this Government from Capitalism then by all means have at it. But as long as the ruling majority in the USA determines that we are to remain a Capitalist Society, then you should really consider dropping the ideas or demands of a Hydrid form of Unionism or Government.

Given the AFL-CIO Raid clause, AMFA is the only current option that would allow for ALL AMT's to belong to one Union. Does strength in numbers only apply when it is the skilled mixed into the unskilled majority? Or would a strength in numbers combined with a strength in skill form of Unionism be better for the profession?
Just Sayin....

 

[odie01]

TWU M&R headcount has dropped by more than 5,000 since 2003 concessions for jobs. By October TWO Maintenace Bases will be shuttered. How is that concessions for jobs program working the AMT's? How many will be unemployed by August?
How many TWA members were there before they became represented by TWU? Again, is the Union's job to hire, fire, or employ AMT's?

Ask the same questions regarding the TWU as you keep asking over and over about AMFA!!!

Do you drink Fear-Berry flavored Kool-Aid daily that makes you unable to see the failures of industrial unionism?

And the headcount continues to drop on a daily basis, we are losing mechanics to Boeing, Southwest, L3, GE, ect, ect. Yep it's pretty gloomy out their,when you listen to the 514 armchair economists.

 

[Vortilon]

And that same representative advised you to vote yes on the July 2010 TA that would have raised us to number two behind WN if we had voted yes. Did you forget that? Remember we are following the path of vote no until we get something better? At least that's what Bob, Schalk, Ruiz, Rojas, Petersen, and Pike said. I am still waiting for that kick ass deal!

If this was the business world, they would have made a unilateral decision like most management does. Not ask the employees if they agree with the raise they just got for them. Since we are in a union you got to vote no. Now you are blaming the Int'l for something that they advised we take because they believed BK was a definite possibility. You and the other no voters chose believe the Quorum of Fools (Owens, Ruiz, Pike, Schalk, etc...) that BK was a threat and there was riches to be had if we voted no. So far, almost five years later, we now have a bad LBO that we voted down with the prospect of an even more hideous deal due to abrogation. But Bob and his buddies are saying keep voting no because the pay day is coming. Right.

So the Int'l advises vote yes on a deal that would have raised our comp to number two in the industry and kept outsourcing at 10% and Bob recommends vote no and we are faced with number eight in pay and 40% outsourcing and you say fire the Int'l reps? Okay.

Overspeed, you are going to be steam rolled. There has never been a problem at DFW getting AMTs to sign AMFA cards. The cards just keep coming.

 

[aapitbull]

The TWU has gone on record in Bankruptcy court that AA AMT's are at the bottom of the industry....that's what your negotiation representative claimed in court. They would have been fired if they were in the business world.

Wrong reply

 

[Lloyd Grey]

AMFA has the top two contracts in the passenger airline industry.

There has never been a better time than NOW to conduct an AMFA card drive.

I've been pro AMFA since '88

 

[aapitbull]

Very good, I agree. Now, answer this... How many members ( active on payroll ) does AMFA have? How many members ( unemployed ) does AMFA have ? So the question is how many did they have before the hardline " our way or the highway" and now?

Well where shall we draw the line on members lost do you want to include only the BK in the 2000's or should we go back to the fact that the TWU represented the mechanic's at Pan Am and the F/A's at Eastern etc etc etc.

 

[Deleted member 14439]

And the headcount continues to drop on a daily basis, we are losing mechanics to Boeing, Southwest, L3, GE, ect, ect. Yep it's pretty gloomy out their,when you listen to the 514 armchair economists.

AMT on my dock got a call from GE yesterday.

 

[Frank Szabo]

And the headcount continues to drop on a daily basis, we are losing mechanics to Boeing, Southwest, L3, GE, ect, ect. Yep it's pretty gloomy out their,when you listen to the 514 armchair economists.

With the people leaving, it should make for some rather pretty colored-crayon charts and graphs coming from Centrepork - such a shame it doesn't give the true picture of the company's situation.

 

[nitronutt]

Ok, So let me get this straight.. The unions do not hire, fire or retire employees but they will agree to outsource and trade jobs for wages. Just saying... I think that is what I am hearing. Lets be the highest paid AMT's but we are only going to employee 2000. Im thinking I'll take the fifth highest paid and 9000 Amt's. Still have not received the AMFA numbers I am looking for. AMFA is highest paid but when all the numbers equal 1/3 of AA's AMT's who cares. Most of us will not have a job !