AMFA Drive started in Tulsa ?

[Overspeed]

AMFA would not have brought back the LBO, claimed to be neutral and then crossed their fingers hoping the thing passed.
AMFA would not allow itself to used as the weakest link in order to win another six years of concessions and undermine the other two unions. AMFA would be standing firm with the flight attendants and the pilots.

The TWU does not represent the best interest of the mechanics class and craft. Let's get this done already!

Be sure to send some cards to SEA.

Let’s see –AMFA would have never brought back this POS LBO. Except they did in 2005, and Delle recommended it. AMFA is run by the members. Did the members approve Delle’s half million dollar pay out. Were the NWA members allowed to vote on the Company LBO before they went out on strike. AMFA will protect our work, but over the last decade they managed to lose more heavy overhaul and Title II work than any organization in the history of the industry. Did AMFA stand up to the Company during the United bankruptcy? You better look at the record. They agreed to termination of the pension plan and overseas outsourcing.

If you are saying we should follow the AMFA path have you looked across the way at NWA hangar? Do you remember how they were replaced the day after the strike by contractors? Only just recently non-union DL mechanics will start doing some work in that hangar of they haven't already.

 

[nitronutt]

I must have missed the questions, so let me address these. I am not happy with the direction of AA, we need to seperate ourselfs from the other airlines and continue to do all maintenance inhouse. The Union, well... I think they needed to add some stronger language to help the membership. However, there is a middle road but I dont think we are there. Due to the damage of both corporate and unions the AMT have suffered. We as AMT's should be respected more than a BMW or Mercedes mechanic but as you read the comments in the Tulsa world we are degraded. The Tulsa maintenance base, I have to say after Carmine retired it has been a downward spiral. Again, I will ask this...What has AMFA done for the AMT and employment of AMT's ? Instead of being critical of my AMFA question just answer it

 

[nitronutt]

Let’s see –AMFA would have never brought back this POS LBO. Except they did in 2005, and Delle recommended it. AMFA is run by the members. Did the members approve Delle’s half million dollar pay out. Were the NWA members allowed to vote on the Company LBO before they went out on strike. AMFA will protect our work, but over the last decade they managed to lose more heavy overhaul and Title II work than any organization in the history of the industry. Did AMFA stand up to the Company during the United bankruptcy? You better look at the record. They agreed to termination of the pension plan and overseas outsourcing.

If you are saying we should follow the AMFA path have you looked across the way at NWA hangar? Do you remember how they were replaced the day after the strike by contractors? Only just recently non-union DL mechanics will start doing some work in that hangar of they haven't already.

Finally, Someone who has some of the same comments and views as myself... So, show me what AMFA has done for our profession ! Dont say they do it for the love of the AMT because Im not seeing it.

 

[TWU informer]

I must have missed the questions, so let me address these. I am not happy with the direction of AA, we need to seperate ourselfs from the other airlines and continue to do all maintenance inhouse. The Union, well... I think they needed to add some stronger language to help the membership. However, there is a middle road but I dont think we are there. Due to the damage of both corporate and unions the AMT have suffered. We as AMT's should be respected more than a BMW or Mercedes mechanic but as you read the comments in the Tulsa world we are degraded. The Tulsa maintenance base, I have to say after Carmine retired it has been a downward spiral. Again, I will ask this...What has AMFA done for the AMT and employment of AMT's ? Instead of being critical of my AMFA question just answer it

AMFA has provided and alternative to Industrial Unionism to all AMT's since the early 1960's. In contrast, all AFL-CIO Unions are bound by the "No-Raid" clause/provision that affords the union member zero competition in representation and no alternative to a failing form of Unionism.

And although, given your reasons for bashing AMFA, you will disagree with me on this, the fact is, it is not within the Union Function to employee, hire, or fire any AMT's of the industry. That happens to be the function of Corporations, Share Holders, i.e. the rich that the AFL-CIO and the TWU appear to have hatred for and against. Class Warfare is not the answer here.

Go review what NWA Management was demanding from the AMT's of AMFA when that strike happened there. Those demands were not far off from what has been voted against here at AA. Only real difference is we have no option to legally strike and those AMT's were given permission by the NMB to do so. You keep mumbling about AMFA having a my way or the highway approach, when in fact it was NWA Management that was taking that approach in those negotiations, asking for larger cuts that you are about to witness right here at AA soon. Go read the facts about what the Management demands were and quit blaming AMFA AMT's for taking a stand against the Corporate Greed that James C Little and the TWU only talk about challenging. You blame a group of AMT's for taking the ultimate stand against Corporate Greed, and instead favor the roll-over approach and want the skilled to fund employment for those are not skilled or needed from the view of the corporate level.

The United Airlines AMT's would not be represented by the Teamsters right now if not for AMFA, because the No Raid clause would have prevented a change from the IAM to the Teamsters without the AMFA representation in the interim.

Just as AA has taken a take or leave it approach to AMT negotiations since 2008, so too was NWA Management prior to that strike at the carrier.

Industrial Unionism is a valid form of representation as long as you agree that your skill and responsibility has no more value than a non-skilled employee. If you favor giving concessions from a craft or skilled group to maintain employment for the non-skilled. If you agree with this idea, then you are indeed an industrial unionist and have no interest in craft unionism, but then I would have to ask you where do you draw the line,and where is your limit of charity production?

Nowhere in the TWU Consitution under "objectives" does it say that this Union's direction is too give away pay and benefits to save of create jobs. In fact the TWU Constitution states just the opposite under objectives of the organization.

I would love to hear your explanation and understanding about where you developed the idea that Union's function is to hire, fire, or provide employment for workers? We live in a Capitalist Society, and you desire to create some form of hybrid government that is half socialism, half captialism, while maintaining all of your freedoms. IF you wish to convert this Government from Capitalism then by all means have at it. But as long as the ruling majority in the USA determines that we are to remain a Capitalist Society, then you should really consider dropping the ideas or demands of a Hydrid form of Unionism or Government.

Given the AFL-CIO Raid clause, AMFA is the only current option that would allow for ALL AMT's to belong to one Union. Does strength in numbers only apply when it is the skilled mixed into the unskilled majority? Or would a strength in numbers combined with a strength in skill form of Unionism be better for the profession?
Just Sayin....

 

[Frank Szabo]

Finally, Someone who has some of the same comments and views as myself... So, show me what AMFA has done for our profession ! Dont say they do it for the love of the AMT because Im not seeing it.

When one responds to their own posts, it's rather difficult to NOT have the same ideas, that is, unless one is in dire need of anti-psychotic medications.

Tell me - what do the voices have to say about your attitude?

 

[nitronutt]

Again, let me say Im not happy about the benefit and pay loss of 2003. However, Im going to tell you instead of being angry maybe we need to look to the 2003 contract as an investment in your continued employment for 9 years. One thing I see for sure is when its time to negotiate the airlines are in a downward cycle. Also, not only the airlines but the whole economic situation. Where are you going? MRO, NO THANKS

 

[nitronutt]

When one responds to their own posts, it's rather difficult to NOT have the same ideas, that is, unless one is in dire need of anti-psychotic medications.

Tell me - what do the voices have to say about your attitude?

TWU member to Hall come in, You have a copy? Help me with my next post... Thats what I hear in my head. HA

 

[TWU informer]

TWU member to Hall come in, You have a copy? Help me with my next post... Thats what I hear in my head. HA

Wrong again, I need no help with my thoughts and postings here. And I sure don't need a group of unaccountable baffoons to save me from myself.

 

[strikeforce]

Finally, Someone who has some of the same comments and views as myself... So, show me what AMFA has done for our profession ! Dont say they do it for the love of the AMT because Im not seeing it.

What AMFA will give you is.....a voice in the process. AMFA allows observers at negotiations, TWU doesn't. AMFA, like AMP, gives the membership the ability to recall and remove officers....good luck with the TWU.

based on just those two reasons....I want AMFA!

All of the legacy carriers have or will have outsourced the majority of work, but let's go on record of wage and benefit protections for their remaining workers....YOU cannot dispute the fact that AMFA protects your wallet. AMT's at SWA are the highest paid amongst the legacy carriers. TWU has not only sold your job out, they kept your wallet stagnant, and now with the almost 100% increase in medical contributions...your purchasing power is in the toilet. My friend at SWA just got a "paid lunch"....when was the last time you had that with the TWU? They have more holidays, vacation days, full pay for sick days, double time OT, 2.5X for holidays. It goes on and on. What has the TWU given you......1/2 pay for sick days, 5 holidays at 1.5X your pay, 1 less vacation week for the last 9 years, 1.5X for all OT & Field work, OSM's, SRP's....which mean you lose pay when in these positions, AMFA & SWA has NO osm's or srp's. AMFA is the obvious winner here. Go ahead and keep the TWU....you might keep your job, but at what cost to your wallet??

 

[nitronutt]

Wrong again, I need no help with my thoughts and postings here. And I sure don't need a group of unaccountable baffoons to save me from myself.

It was a joke, so many have said Im a TWU officer in sheeps clothing..So I wanted to play the part. You know, play along

 

[nitronutt]

What AMFA will give you is.....a voice in the process. AMFA allows observers at negotiations, TWU doesn't. AMFA, like AMP, gives the membership the ability to recall and remove officers....good luck with the TWU.

based on just those two reasons....I want AMFA!

All of the legacy carriers have or will have outsourced the majority of work, but let's go on record of wage and benefit protections for their remaining workers....YOU cannot dispute the fact that AMFA protects your wallet. AMT's at SWA are the highest paid amongst the legacy carriers. TWU has not only sold your job out, they kept your wallet stagnant, and now with the almost 100% increase in medical contributions...your purchasing power is in the toilet. My friend at SWA just got a "paid lunch"....when was the last time you had that with the TWU? They have more holidays, vacation days, full pay for sick days, double time OT, 2.5X for holidays. It goes on and on. What has the TWU given you......1/2 pay for sick days, 5 holidays at 1.5X your pay, 1 less vacation week for the last 9 years, 1.5X for all OT & Field work, OSM's, SRP's....which mean you lose pay when in these positions, AMFA & SWA has NO osm's or srp's. AMFA is the obvious winner here. Go ahead and keep the TWU....you might keep your job, but at what cost to your wallet??

Very good, I agree. Now, answer this... How many members ( active on payroll ) does AMFA have? How many members ( unemployed ) does AMFA have ? So the question is how many did they have before the hardline " our way or the highway" and now?

 

[strikeforce]

Finally, Someone who has some of the same comments and views as myself... So, show me what AMFA has done for our profession ! Dont say they do it for the love of the AMT because Im not seeing it.

The TWU has gone on record in Bankruptcy court that AA AMT's are at the bottom of the industry....that's what your negotiation representative claimed in court. They would have been fired if they were in the business world.

 

[strikeforce]

Very good, I agree. Now, answer this... How many members ( active on payroll ) does AMFA have? How many members ( unemployed ) does AMFA have ? So the question is how many did they have before the hardline " our way or the highway" and now?

How many of AMFA's members are making $100K/yr base, as compared to the TWU??

UA, AA, NW, DL, and even SWA made a decision to outsource a majority of OH....AMFA decided to exchange jobs for increased wages and benefits for remaining AMT's. Alaska did the same....and the remaining AMT's at Alaska are making more than AA amt's.

At AA, the company will most likely layoff 4K mechanics, but the remaining amt's will be below industry standards. That's the best the TWU can do for you!

 

[Overspeed]

The TWU has gone on record in Bankruptcy court that AA AMT's are at the bottom of the industry....that's what your negotiation representative claimed in court. They would have been fired if they were in the business world.

And that same representative advised you to vote yes on the July 2010 TA that would have raised us to number two behind WN if we had voted yes. Did you forget that? Remember we are following the path of vote no until we get something better? At least that's what Bob, Schalk, Ruiz, Rojas, Petersen, and Pike said. I am still waiting for that kick ass deal!

If this was the business world, they would have made a unilateral decision like most management does. Not ask the employees if they agree with the raise they just got for them. Since we are in a union you got to vote no. Now you are blaming the Int'l for something that they advised we take because they believed BK was a definite possibility. You and the other no voters chose believe the Quorum of Fools (Owens, Ruiz, Pike, Schalk, etc...) that BK was a threat and there was riches to be had if we voted no. So far, almost five years later, we now have a bad LBO that we voted down with the prospect of an even more hideous deal due to abrogation. But Bob and his buddies are saying keep voting no because the pay day is coming. Right.

So the Int'l advises vote yes on a deal that would have raised our comp to number two in the industry and kept outsourcing at 10% and Bob recommends vote no and we are faced with number eight in pay and 40% outsourcing and you say fire the Int'l reps? Okay.

 

[Buck]

Very good, I agree. Now, answer this... How many members ( active on payroll ) does AMFA have? How many members ( unemployed ) does AMFA have ? So the question is how many did they have before the hardline " our way or the highway" and now?

If you are referring to the numbers of employees, the union is not their employer.

If you are referring to the number of mechanics serving in the AMFA organization as officers etc. you will need to call the AMFA National.

Let me say this the two highest paid mechanic groups at the legacy carriers ( AA competitors and not Postal carriers ) are Southwest and Alaska Airlines, AA mechanics are dead last.