American looking to "right-size" the company and staffing levels for the Fall and 2021

[1AA]

EOlesen

Did you do the math on how much they would save keeping the Jr guys shedding the top pay and the 5 weeks vacation, 401k obligations, medical the older mechanics use, Every company projects out costs, long term with all the savings it's better to shed high paying jobs & benefits. The union is the loser, lower dues per mechanic with the 8-9 yr topout progression.


$60k vers $115k
1 week vacation vers 5-6 weeks vacation
medical cost young vers OLD
401k

2012 AA filed for BK then went out and bought a new fleet of aircraft. (for the future)

Those aircraft orders were already in place before AA went into BK. Those aircraft orders stayed in place and the financing was not altered. That was suspicious because the financing rates and agreements were immune to all the BK changes. We had our contracts changed, pensions frozen and so on. The largest commercial aircraft order in aviation history was untouched. Another example on the working man getting screwed and the powerless unions fighting big business and the BK courts losing out. Did we really need to lose the prefunding? How many more union members would have taken an early out if prefunding was left untouched like the aircraft orders? I would have strongly considered taking an early out knowing my medical was covered until the age of 65.

 

[swamt]

The paper and internet job boards are full of jobs.

So can you clarify what you mean by there are not enough jobs out there now?

Or were you referring to aircraft mechanic jobs? Even at that an airline mechanics various disciplines (hydraulics, electrical, sheet metal. pneumatics, diesel engine technology) would open a lot of doors for them career wise. So I don't believe your claim about there not being enough jobs out there right now.

I know a friend of a friend...... he has not been able to find a job for over 20 years.

To be frank, your friend of a friend is just a lazy bum. There has been a many jobs available in the last 20 years. And like AIM said, SWA-AA-Delta-United all have hired many AMT's in the last 20 years. Hundreds if not thousands of AMT's have rold thru SWA alone especially when we bought AT and added the 4th Heavy Maint. line in Dallas, brought C-Checks back to Dallas and hired for the new maint program for boosting overnight maint from 18 to 40.
Surely that was sarcastic LuLu...

How exactly is this smart? If the goal is to get 2,000 folks to leave at $80,000 per head (just pulling a number out of a hat) you're looking at $160M just in salary, and probably another $20-40M for health benefits. I can't imagine the cost of furloughing the bottom of the list will cost anywhere near that, nor do I really believe that "goodwill" is going to ever be realized with a layoff of 20-40% of the workforce.

The cost savings in the long run are much better for the co. You are only paying a one years salary to an already topped out man. The medical after the year or two is much cheaper cost to a company, when a younger new employee comes on board than all the medical attention we all need when we are over 40-45 and above. Other items some are not thinking about are the cost of unemployment benefits with active employees, workers comp., plus with up to 8 weeks paid off compared to 1 week or two adds up as well. It takes 18 years to get up to the 5 weeks vac here. Another factor is the "productivity" goes way up when new hire takes the place of an older veteran, we all know this. A new hire will not meet the same cost of pay as a veteran until the 6th year at top out, so SWA saved 5 years in salary. And no 100% vested in anything until 5 years also.
Trust me Southwest is smart. If offering the EO packages were costing more than keeping them they would not be offering them, period. SWA is always looking at 5-10 years out. If this was costing them more money, they simply would not be doing it...

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Those aircraft orders were already in place before AA went into BK. Those aircraft orders stayed in place and the financing was not altered. That was suspicious because the financing rates and agreements were immune to all the BK changes. We had our contracts changed, pensions frozen and so on. The largest commercial aircraft order in aviation history was untouched. Another example on the working man getting screwed and the powerless unions fighting big business and the BK courts losing out. Did we really need to lose the prefunding? How many more union members would have taken an early out if prefunding was left untouched like the aircraft orders? I would have strongly considered taking an early out knowing my medical was covered until the age of 65.

1AA No matter when the order was placed my point was that AA projects out costs, so giving a package to the older guys, and NOT Laying off the Jr guys makes it better for AA.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

ALUS78

And by that statement just proves that the company your are talking about has NO union leadership, because if they did NO-ONE would take the O/T until
they called the guys back. If it's AA or USAir just proves what I have said many times here IGM is the thinking here and that most NOW will stab their mom in the back for a paid lunch.

NO Unionism here at AA that is why it's time for the industrial unions TWU/IAM to be gone from MY class and craft.

What is wrong with taking the overtime?

Look EVERYONE who works in this industry knows airlines are a very volatile business. American Airlines pays a very good wage. If people don't prepare for layoffs (because they KNOW they are coming) or have a plan B that is on them. Why should I turn down extra money because of other people's poor financial decisions and planning? So you have a huge house, a new $75,000 dollar truck, and a boat, and I should give a F about you getting laid off why? Because you made the intelligent financial decision to bury yourself in debt and make yourself entirely dependent on AA wages when you know they lay off?

I promise you I would not turn down an opportunity to provide for my family for any coworker. You can call me IGM all you want, does not bother me one bit.

Coworkers for the most part are NOT your friends (trust me on this I speak from experience) they are just people you are stuck with 8 or more hours a day. I mean be honest, how many of your coworkers do you actually associate with outside of work, and out of those how many would you actually call friends? You owe them NOTHING UNION brothers and sisters or not.

See, you see it as your responsibility as a UNION member to create an environment to increase or maintain headcount (a true testament to UNION conditioning). I don't feel that way. I feel a UNION members only responsibility is to make sure the employer provides fair compensation and benefits based on the current job market which doesn't have a damn thing to do with headcount.

From my point of view you are dead wrong worrying about people laid off. The fact is headcount should be reflective of business demand not some socialist agenda. Honestly you sound like a UNION tool when you push this garbage.

You sound like these fools that sacrifice pay and benefits for headcount. How has that been working out for you?

In all likelihood my wife will be getting laid of in October. She is topped out so that will be a major financial impact. But, you know what, I am not worried about it. Because I am not stupid enough to go bury myself in debt. I make sure that we stay within a budget where we can survive on any one current income or both of us working a lesser paying job if we should both happen to get hit, and I put away money on top of that. Enough to pay bills for 8 months so far without the benefit of unemployment. I plan on having a years worth by the end of September. The last thing I would expect is for someone to not take advantage of opportunities just to get my wife back to work a little faster.

Financial planning..... welcome to adulthood.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

To be frank, your friend of a friend is just a lazy bum.

Of course he is. That is the whole point.

I should clarify he is not an A&P. He is not an anything. That would take effort which is not his forte.

My only point was people who say they "can't" find work are people who choose not to find it.

TSurely that was sarcastic LuLu...

Not at all.

The lazy bastard is in his mid to late 40's and has literally never worked a day in his life.

 

[1AA]

1AA No matter when the order was placed my point was that AA projects out costs, so giving a package to the older guys, and NOT Laying off the Jr guys makes it better for AA.

I am only referring to your one statement that AA filed for BK and then placed orders for new aircraft.
That order is still in place today with the exception on delayed deliveries.

 

[Kev3188]

My only point was people who say they "can't" find work are people who choose not to find it.

+1

There are definitely jobs to be had out there right now- it's just that many of them are jobs some people think are "beneath" them.

I'm not looking forward to 10/1, but I'm relatively confident I can find something to at least keep the lights on while looking for something long term.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

+1

There are definitely jobs to be had out there right now- it's just that many of them are jobs some people think are "beneath" them.

I'm not looking forward to 10/1, but I'm relatively confident I can find something to at least keep the lights on while looking for something long term.

You seem very confident you will be laid off Kev3188.

I am not sure of your age or skill set but while you are off have you considered going to school?

I mean the timing is perfect.

You are getting laid off one month after the school year starts. Go to school for one month then when you get laid off apply for a Pell Grant (providing your income is low enough). I am betting the government will extend unemployment benefits long enough for you to finish out your schooling. If you find work you can target jobs that will work with your school schedule. A lot of places don't even have work search requirements anyway due to COVID. If you get called back before your schooling is done I guess you will have to make a decision on rather to finish or not.

That is one good thing I get to see from my tax dollars and that is helping my fellow American get a new start.

I would hit up a trade school. Heating and air perhaps. You might even find you don't WANT to come back. Just do a bit of research on your options and find out what is marketable and what the pay prospects are in your area and nationally.

Anyway something to consider.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

+1

There are definitely jobs to be had out there right now- it's just that many of them are jobs some people think are "beneath" them.

I'm not looking forward to 10/1, but I'm relatively confident I can find something to at least keep the lights on while looking for something long term.

Also if you are not interested in the school route I would start trying to find something NOW, not wait until you are laid off. You might be able to line a job up for 10/5.

Beat the rush, know what I'm saying?

 

[ALUS78]

ALUS78

And by that statement just proves that the company your are talking about has NO union leadership, because if they did NO-ONE would take the O/T until
they called the guys back. If it's AA or USAir just proves what I have said many times here IGM is the thinking here and that most NOW will stab their mom in the back for a paid lunch.

NO Unionism here at AA that is why it's time for the industrial unions TWU/IAM to be gone from MY class and craft.

Good luck telling people they shouldn't work ot.

 

[BigTex]

Good luck telling people they shouldn't work ot.

I think you prove his point

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

I think you prove his point

He never had a point.

What he had was a canned response resulting from years of conditioning by UNION propaganda.

Again, it is the same old story, sacrificing pay and benefits for headcount. I think history has very clearly proven that tactic does not work. I mean seriously.... how many times does that have to fail before you guys learn?

There is absolutely no reason why anyone should not work overtime.

 

[BigTex]

He never had a point.

What he had was a canned response resulting from years of conditioning by UNION propaganda.

Again, it is the same old story, sacrificing pay and benefits for headcount. I think history has very clearly proven that tactic does not work. I mean seriously.... how many times does that have to fail before you guys learn?

There is absolutely no reason why anyone should not work overtime.

I must have missed AMFA advocating for a cut in pay and benefits. I will keep looking for that in the comments...

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

What is wrong with taking the overtime?

Look EVERYONE who works in this industry knows airlines are a very volatile business. American Airlines pays a very good wage. If people don't prepare for layoffs (because they KNOW they are coming) or have a plan B that is on them. Why should I turn down extra money because of other people's poor financial decisions and planning? So you have a huge house, a new $75,000 dollar truck, and a boat, and I should give a F about you getting laid off why? Because you made the intelligent financial decision to bury yourself in debt and make yourself entirely dependent on AA wages when you know they lay off?

I promise you I would not turn down an opportunity to provide for my family for any coworker. You can call me IGM all you want, does not bother me one bit.

Coworkers for the most part are NOT your friends (trust me on this I speak from experience) they are just people you are stuck with 8 or more hours a day. I mean be honest, how many of your coworkers do you actually associate with outside of work, and out of those how many would you actually call friends? You owe them NOTHING UNION brothers and sisters or not.

See, you see it as your responsibility as a UNION member to create an environment to increase or maintain headcount (a true testament to UNION conditioning). I don't feel that way. I feel a UNION members only responsibility is to make sure the employer provides fair compensation and benefits based on the current job market which doesn't have a damn thing to do with headcount.

From my point of view you are dead wrong worrying about people laid off. The fact is headcount should be reflective of business demand not some socialist agenda. Honestly you sound like a UNION tool when you push this garbage.

You sound like these fools that sacrifice pay and benefits for headcount. How has that been working out for you?

In all likelihood my wife will be getting laid of in October. She is topped out so that will be a major financial impact. But, you know what, I am not worried about it. Because I am not stupid enough to go bury myself in debt. I make sure that we stay within a budget where we can survive on any one current income or both of us working a lesser paying job if we should both happen to get hit, and I put away money on top of that. Enough to pay bills for 8 months so far without the benefit of unemployment. I plan on having a years worth by the end of September. The last thing I would expect is for someone to not take advantage of opportunities just to get my wife back to work a little faster.

Financial planning..... welcome to adulthood.

IT has nothing to do with the overtime money, we make a real good wage and since you're NOT a A&P mechanic you must of be a member of MGMT, definitely not a UNION GUY. Since we work at AA and have no other way of self help since strike and job actions are now illegal, the only thing we as a group can do to stick together is not work the O/T. It's up to each person and like you said his/hers financial situation. If you are living beyond your means that is on you. They can't white slip you if No-one signs up the work will then get turned over to the on coming shift. O/T is NOT mandatory. But what I see from the many comments here you guys are TWU trained.
But then again that is the way most here at AA think. IGM...

These is my opinion NOT AMFA Nationals or SWA or Alaska or any other AMFA represented carrier.

 

[JREwing]

I will never give 2 s***s about those on layoffs and even less about any Union getting back their members from furlough to resume paying dues.