flyastrojets
Member
- Dec 22, 2004
- 78
- 1
Big +1 to that statement from me.
Layoffs
- Thread starter Hopeful
- Start date
Big +1 to that statement from me.
VBRs were not offered last year to all of Line Maint because they were continuing to recall mechanics. There are around 10,000 mechanics in total, around 3500 on the line, my guestimate is that around 25% to 30% would be eligible.
We have a few guys who signed up but have reconsidered after watching their 401K decline by 60% but we also have a few TWA recalls who just came back to reset the clock on their benifits and would go tomorrow if the were offered the VBR. It makes sense for the company because the company would be able to shed a maxed VC, maxed sick time guy out for a kid who would only get one week of VC a year and have no sick time. My guess is that some of these older guys that would take the VBR probably use 20 to 30 sickdays a year (AA only gives $25/day on retirement so its basically "use it or lose it")plus their 6 weeks of vacation. So even if they had to recall somebody at top scale in pay the VBR would pay for itself within a year or so.
I think the problem may be that there arent many qualified replacements out there...
$14.74 wont attract too many mechanics. Even with 10 million unemployed. IIRC the starting wage in 1983 was $14.00. If you count OSMs its even worse, their starting wage is $9.58. UI pays more. The South American day laborers standing on the street corners wont even work for that.
With the FAA audit going on I dont see them laying off anybody in Maint right now. Normally big FAA audits like this drive head counts for maintenance higher. That plus the uncertainty of the availability of a qualified pool of replacements are points against any layoffs or VBRs in line maintenance. But you never know.
jimntx
Veteran
Oh, sorry. I was not aware that the VBR was offered to anyone except flight attendants last summer. I was only referring to the possibility of additional f/as taking it. You are right. It would be to the company's advantage to offer the VBR to mechanics if they could replace a top-of-scale guy with a new hire or very junior guy.
T
The Goose
Guest
I think you've hit the nail rather squarely with your comment. It's a lot like a violin, Bob - any fool can easily play one to some degree or another but it requires a special type of person to play a fiddle, even though it's the same instrument. It's all in the person and not in the tool.
Many companies are still trying to replace the common sense of the old mechanics with more education and while that's definitely an important part, it's not the end-all it's cracked up to be.
... and it's rather evident the company isn't having much luck.
A lot of it is in the pride as well. Mechanics usually take pride in meeting the challenge to find a solution and getting it done so a flight can go "on-time". Well they made it too costly to be self indulgient. Why work yourself out of OT when you need the money? They dont even bother to thank the fiddler, never mind pay him.
A
American Air Surf
Guest
UPDATE- LGA, BDL, EWR- Freight are closing. The night shift for Freight at JFK, is being eliminated. Word has it, AA Mangement is going to keep squeezing the system w/layoffs until the system breaks- than recall back a few. Also, there will also be another layoff in July 09'
jimntx
Veteran
Heard the rumor yesterday...1000+ f/as right after Labor Day. If true, I'm toast.
Mr.Robot-tow
Member
With a pending decision on which Overhaul base (AFW,MCI)that will be closing,and the continuing MD-80 draw down,in which will be replaced with a less maintence intensive aircraft.The need for recall will never happen to a grand scale,more like 1-2 here and there.Maintence is under a huge cost disadvantage with labor rates high,pending labor disruptions,low morale,I find it no more the admusing that the FAA contintue's to montitor American's day-today operations/maintence,and has started looking back into previous accidents and air interupts,as well as ground interupts.News has it that American Airlines is on a critical watch list with the FAA.VBR's actually would be a good thing,allowing AMT's to leave so that current trained and qualified fleet type be it at Overhaul or line is a cost advantage to American.Recalling takes time and money both with badging,backround checks,drug testing,calling and rejections, and also included bring the AMT up todate on this trainning record could take weeks,so that American is paying about over a month in some case's even before he even start's turning a wrench.VBR'S allow AMT's to leave and thus keeping lower senority on the job to continue doing line maintence or overhaul.With the replacement of Danny Martize and the installment of Ken Durst we will see if this guy knows what he is doing.Fleet size has been dropping steady for the last 2 or more years and will continue to short storage aircraft till the resession/depression recovers.American is in the talks to try to gain more cash reserve's to weather a rather seroius cash flow problem,some say American is burning through about 1.2 million a day.First quater earning report is stated for April the 18th,I suspect more cash flow issue's with this call unless Citi will by some advantage miles in exchange for cash.Norton conference call last week at JP Morgan was brutal to say the least,pensions are now only 70 percent funded with no makeup short fall payment till 2010.There are many factor's that before would never have been discuss, but as one higher up in maintence stated eveything is on the table now.Rumors also was that the 2 companies that were awarded the contracts to demo and built the north-south taxi at LAX have moved into TWA parking lot now. It also has been heard that LAX's head count will continue downward with no recalling of AMT's.I personally think that AMR needs to settle these contracts fast for it now reflects on there ability to stablize cost,when unknown factors like pilots.ramp,FA,AMT's labor rates are unknown for the future in a pricing/cost restrictive envro how can Citi Bank look at American and loan them cash based on Advantage miles for credit card sign-ups,and when no one is looking to and add more debt to themselves.
eolesen
Veteran
- Jul 23, 2003
- 15,959
- 9,374
Not entirely true. They can lay off more than 500 in multiple groups, provided the employer is able to demonstrate that "the employment losses during the 90-day period are the result of separate and distinct actions and causes."
It's not too difficult to come up with distinct actions/causes by workgroup:
* Cargo is closing terminals because of demand for air freight falling off
* Line maintenance furloughing due to the removal of aircraft from the fleet
* Fleet service is furloughing due to adjustments in schedules
There are also some out-clauses which Bob didn't refer to
* WARN triggers don't take into account employees who work an average of less than 20 hours a week for that employer. 80 hours a month equates to less than 19 hours a week, so FA's who don't exceed their guarantee (or who drop trips below the guarantee) don't have to be included in the trigger calculation. Some pilots could also fall into that category. Not sure if paid time off counts or not. My guess is that work and pay are mutually exclusive terms here.
* Unforeseeable business circumstances. It's hard to say that the economy is an unforeseeable business circumstance, but there are cases where it might apply.
* Faltering business. More likely to be used, but limited in applicability to plant closings
If AA's going to do rolling furloughs, they're better off just issuing all of the notices at once. There's nothing I can see that prevents them from being vague on the actual date of the reduction.
JIM! You read this board all the time. People on this board had that rumor out for months. I think Kirkpatrick even showed us the math when he was speculating why it was likely.
Kev3188
Veteran
Just out of curiosity, roughly how many people are at each of these closing locations?
A
American Air Surf
Guest
Go into jetnet..., go to "Careers", look for "Seniority lists", then select, that station you want, (You can also, (check a box) to break out, the Crew Chiefs at Bottom of the list- Other wise it will list them in Seniority order...
jimntx
Veteran
No. This was supposed to be a "straight from the horse's mouth" kind of rumor. Supposedly Lauri C. made the statement to the Base Managers at a meeting in LA. I tracked it down today through my source in management.
Rumor, not true at this time. It seems to be coming out of ORD. However, where my source thinks it came from is that they are in the midst of budget scenarios right now. You know...if A happens what does B do. If we cut your budget 4% what will you have to do to meet it? What if we cut your budget 10%? That kind of thing. There were some scenarios that would have to result in mass layoffs. Doesn't mean any of them are going to come to pass. They were just looking at contingencies. Evidently someone who didn't know that the numbers were "role-playing" and didn't really know what they meant started spreading them around.
Here's a somewhat scary REAL number for you. By this time of the year, International summer travel usually stands at 60-70% booked. Right now, it is 22%. Before you go jump off the roof, be aware that there have been a number of travel articles recently that have suggested that booking as late as possible may increase your chances of getting a better deal. Traditionally, the earlier you book, the lower price you can get and the price goes up as you near departure date. That is not true right now. An airline looking at a 3/4 empty plane leaving in less than 2 weeks starts offering last minute deals. Management is hoping right now that is what is going on. We won't really know until the summer travel season is in swing whether people are not traveling this year or just not booking early this year. Keep your fingers crossed.
Now, back to the rumor. Note my italics above. My source was very careful not to say that 1000 furloughs was not going to happen. It's just not a reality at this time. A lot or nothing can be read into that statement.
