American looking to "right-size" the company and staffing levels for the Fall and 2021

[swamt]

I know exactly what it will take to get me to leave and do not expect this mngt team to get to that number. I hope that I am wrong but do not expect to be wrong. I expect to have to work till 65 but do not expect to work past that date.

If AA was smart they would offer the employees a years salary like Southwest is. A years salary will get people to take it. Just offering 25K + 17 weeks will not cut it for most, albeit some will take it that were ready to go anyways. We even had several (over 2 dozen) guys NOT take the 75K offered in Freedom 09. reason being by the time they remove deductions, and taxes it would basically amount to about 1/2 that and maybe 40-45K take home. The best results and the most fair would be a full years salary. Whatever each employee makes at the time they leave should be hourly rate times 2080= buyout amount. Throw in the health ins. for say 1-2 years with cobra options after that and lifetime flight bennies if age and time meet required amount. At our co. if you have less than 10 years you would only get a partial buyout offer, much, much less. I think it was 4 months salary, with 4 years F/B and then they go away.
When you all get the details please share the offer so we can all compare how the industry compares. In hopes that all airlines run about the same offers across the board. If AA sticks to their contractual offers I would be willing to bet they don't even get 10% of what they really want. IF AA really wants their numbers to be reached they will have to offer something worth thinking about. Most will be looking at medical coverage more than just the $$$. But the more $$$ does help to entice people into thinking about doing it more and figuring out ways to be ABLE to do it. Heck, there is a lot of us nowhere near retirement but even we were discussing ways we could possibly do it with the years salary being offered.
At any rate I hope most guys get an offer they can live with, otherwise here comes the layoffs and rifs and just hate to see it again in our industry.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

There isn't enough jobs out there now.

The paper and internet job boards are full of jobs.

So can you clarify what you mean by there are not enough jobs out there now?

Or were you referring to aircraft mechanic jobs? Even at that an airline mechanics various disciplines (hydraulics, electrical, sheet metal. pneumatics, diesel engine technology) would open a lot of doors for them career wise. So I don't believe your claim about there not being enough jobs out there right now.

I know a friend of a friend...... he has not been able to find a job for over 20 years.

 

[ALUS78]

ALUS78

Within the M&R class and craft the LUS mechanics are at least 5-10 yrs older across the board, having to wait for the cash this last package and the fact we really had not rcvd a full check with the new rate of pay, nor the extra 401k money. So for me that was a foolish deal to take yet people took it. $49k next March and leave now. NOT good deal.

IMHO if they offered the money at time of departure, at what they have in the current contract of $25k and 17 weeks to leave I think guys would take it. If you are in the 63+ age bracket you can not save that money in a 2 yrs time frame. The new AA is moving in a direction that this group which I am in for us is not a fun place to be. "YES" I know guys have medical issues but the guys who are already 65 yrs of age have medicare. So medical would not be an issue unless they have a wife waiting with problems. With a layoff they get the Jr. guys and then AA will have a bid to realign the work force thus forcing some guys from the shift they are/have been on and affect days off as well. Us the older guys are not going back to nights. That is a big deal for some. Bumping, commuting, that is stuff Jr and younger guys do. Going from LAX, MIA, DFW, DWH, warm place to ORD,JFK, NWK, LGA, BOS, again older guys are not going to go being so close to retirement. Setting up things to retire is hard enough so adding a commute to the equation again the 63 + crowd will in my opinion take the money.

There are sections in our contract that if they can't accomplish work or staffing falls below a certain number, or number of flights they can close a station. On the LUS side Pitt is a good example for you since most there are really old. Like FLL they could make it a one station agreement and send the few remaining guys to MIA. Saving all cost to operate FLL. AA 's MGMT is not stupid they are looking at 5yrs down the road, it makes more business sense to give a package to the older guys than risk losing the Jr guys in Maintenance. Shedding 5-6 weeks top of the pay scale guys to 1 week 9yrs to top out Jr mechanics. shutting down stations makes it work for them.

I have NOT thought about what will happen in FLEET Service or other dept. not my work group. I work in MIA but if I was going to be forced to go to nights, commute, lose my weekends after all these yrs "YES" I would take the money and run. Walking away from this $115k job.

I wish there was a way to know but out of all the groups some 40,000 people took leaves of absence I'd bet AMTs are have the lowest percentage.Who knows maybe things will get better and the company will be able to afford better packages...we shall see. I'd like st see the look on spouses face when they tell them they are leaving a very well paid job cause they dont want to work nights.

 

[ALUS78]

The paper and internet job boards are full of jobs.

So can you clarify what you mean by there are not enough jobs out there now?

Or were you referring to aircraft mechanic jobs? Even at that an airline mechanics various disciplines (hydraulics, electrical, sheet metal. pneumatics, diesel engine technology) would open a lot of doors for them career wise. So I don't believe your claim about there not being enough jobs out there right now.

I know a friend of a friend...... he has not been able to find a job for over 20 years.

Yeah and all the companies are clamoring for 60+ year old workers and guess what if they did take those jobs they would be on the bottom and subject to any shift putting them in the same position as if they stayed. You worked in the industry you know no one busts their asses

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Yeah and all the companies are clamoring for 60+ year old workers

I did not realize you were targeting specific age groups. I can tell you my father is over 65 and he took a job as a maintenance man after he retired. He has an RV and the school takes care of all his costs. He does not make a ton per hour but they cover his living costs 100 percent while working so in fact he makes very good money. That being said it is seasonal.

and guess what if they did take those jobs they would be on the bottom and subject to any shift putting them in the same position as if they stayed.

Not every job out there is UNIONized, not every job runs on seniority, and not every job has shift work. That is a pretty big assumption you are making. I bet many people here could work as an auto mechanic and make good money and work days only with weekends off. Hell if I had the kind of skills you guys did I would say F the airline industry an go work on ships. fishing vessels, cruise ships, cargo ships, that sort of thing. Hell of a lot of money in ship engine repair.

I don't much much stock into these websites but payscale.com says a marine diesel mechanic makes about $99,820 K a year average.

https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Marine_Diesel_Mechanic/Salary

Then you have other sites saying they only make about $25 an hour average, so it is hard to tell.


https://www.ziprecruiter.com/Salaries/How-Much-Does-a-Marine-Diesel-Mechanic-Make-an-Hour

I am sure it has a lot to do with what kind of ships/engines you are working on.


When I left the industry I took a job and was on days my first 2 years. I only went to nights because I could work from home and I got a huge shift dif to do so. Between what I was saving in gas, parking, and gaining in shift dif I made a TON more money. Either way my life vastly improved after the never ending hell of 2nd shift at TULE. Though I had weekends off so I guess that was one perk.

You worked in the industry you know no one busts their asses

They may be very soon. I have the feeling American Airlines is going to shed a lot of weight and do very little hiring for a long long LONG time. I hope I am wrong.

 

[Paul Too]

I did not realize you were targeting specific age groups. I can tell you my father is over 65 and he took a job as a maintenance man after he retired. He has an RV and the school takes care of all his costs. He does not make a ton per hour but they cover his living costs 100 percent while working so in fact he makes very good money. That being said it is seasonal.

Not every job out there is UNIONized, not every job runs on seniority, and not every job has shift work. That is a pretty big assumption you are making. I bet many people here could work as an auto mechanic and make good money and work days only with weekends off. Hell if I had the kind of skills you guys did I would say F the airline industry an go work on ships. fishing vessels, cruise ships, cargo ships, that sort of thing. Hell of a lot of money in ship engine repair.

When I left the industry I took a job and was on days my first 2 years. I only went to nights because I could work from home and I got a huge shift dif to do so. Between what I was saving in gas, parking, and gaining in shift dif I made a TON more money.


They may be very soon. I have the feeling American Airlines is going to shed a lot of weight and do very little hiring for a long long LONG time. I hope I am wrong.

With all the lay-offs coming, AA would have to bring those people back first!

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Marine Diesel Technician
LRS
Fort Myers Beach, FL

40 an hour Full-time

There you go. 40 an hour.

‭$83,200‬ a year.

 

[eolesen]

If AA was smart they would offer the employees a years salary like Southwest is. A years salary will get people to take it. Just offering 25K + 17 weeks will not cut it for most, albeit some will take it that were ready to go anyways.

How exactly is this smart? If the goal is to get 2,000 folks to leave at $80,000 per head (just pulling a number out of a hat) you're looking at $160M just in salary, and probably another $20-40M for health benefits. I can't imagine the cost of furloughing the bottom of the list will cost anywhere near that, nor do I really believe that "goodwill" is going to ever be realized with a layoff of 20-40% of the workforce.

 

[ALUS78]

Marine Diesel Technician
LRS
Fort Myers Beach, FL

40 an hour Full-time

There you go. 40 an hour.

‭$83,200‬ a year.

Youre trying to prove with what one job? Are they having a job fair. Up here in NYC and suburbs 100s maybe thousand diesel mechs lost their jobs when school closed and school buses were no longer needed during pandemic and I know one. As a matter of fact a big school bus contractor on long island where I live went out of business.

 

[ALUS78]

How exactly is this smart? If the goal is to get 2,000 folks to leave at $80,000 per head (just pulling a number out of a hat) you're looking at $160M just in salary, and probably another $20-40M for health benefits. I can't imagine the cost of furloughing the bottom of the list will cost anywhere near that, nor do I really believe that "goodwill" is going to ever be realized with a layoff of 20-40% of the workforce.

Yup and I've actually seen them layoff to the bone and pay existing employees overtime when needed.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Yup and I've actually seen them layoff to the bone and pay existing employees overtime when needed.

ALUS78

And by that statement just proves that the company your are talking about has NO union leadership, because if they did NO-ONE would take the O/T until
they called the guys back. If it's AA or USAir just proves what I have said many times here IGM is the thinking here and that most NOW will stab their mom in the back for a paid lunch.

NO Unionism here at AA that is why it's time for the industrial unions TWU/IAM to be gone from MY class and craft.

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

How exactly is this smart? If the goal is to get 2,000 folks to leave at $80,000 per head (just pulling a number out of a hat) you're looking at $160M just in salary, and probably another $20-40M for health benefits. I can't imagine the cost of furloughing the bottom of the list will cost anywhere near that, nor do I really believe that "goodwill" is going to ever be realized with a layoff of 20-40% of the workforce.

EOlesen

Did you do the math on how much they would save keeping the Jr guys shedding the top pay and the 5 weeks vacation, 401k obligations, medical the older mechanics use, Every company projects out costs, long term with all the savings it's better to shed high paying jobs & benefits. The union is the loser, lower dues per mechanic with the 8-9 yr topout progression.


$60k vers $115k
1 week vacation vers 5-6 weeks vacation
medical cost young vers OLD
401k

2012 AA filed for BK then went out and bought a new fleet of aircraft. (for the future)

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

The paper and internet job boards are full of jobs.

So can you clarify what you mean by there are not enough jobs out there now?

Or were you referring to aircraft mechanic jobs? Even at that an airline mechanics various disciplines (hydraulics, electrical, sheet metal. pneumatics, diesel engine technology) would open a lot of doors for them career wise. So I don't believe your claim about there not being enough jobs out there right now.

I know a friend of a friend...... he has not been able to find a job for over 20 years.

Your friend of a friend if a A&P Mechanics must have a problem, since AA, SWA, and Delta hired guys in the last few yrs. AA most recently 3/16/20.

"YES" with an A&P you have many different avenues in which you can go. NOT stuck just working on Aircraft. The airlines was yrs ago a place to come to, but now quality of life and financial stability going forward is something to think about. Selling off of seats which cuts our chances of pass riding, not so much of a draw to come here to this industry any longer.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Youre trying to prove with what one job? Are they having a job fair. Up here in NYC and suburbs 100s maybe thousand diesel mechs lost their jobs when school closed and school buses were no longer needed during pandemic and I know one. As a matter of fact a big school bus contractor on long island where I live went out of business.

Well first of all the pandemic is a temporary issue that has been blown way out of proportion to push a leftist political agenda by a bunch of socialist countries.

Two I honestly believe that the school bus market has been over saturated. You would not believe the amount of school buses Navistar (the parent company of IC Bus) churns out. It is UNREAL. 75 per DAY!!!!!! I mean honestly how many years can you make 75 buses a day and not totally saturate the market? Couple that with what New York probably makes. An estimated 480,000 serve our public schools. At that rate just the plant in Tulsa would replace every single bus in the United States in 17 years. They have already been in business for 20. Let that sink in.

https://stnonline.com/news/city-of-tulsa-navistar-at-impasse-over-school-bus-manufacturing-plant/

Three a lot of different vehicles use diesel technology, ships, construction equipment, farming equipment, semi trucks, trains, mining equipment.

To answer your charge no I am not trying to prove anything with one job. That is not what I said at all. I stated A&P mechanics had a variety of disciplines (hydraulics, electrical, sheet metal. pneumatics, diesel engine technology) they could leverage in the job market. I then stated if I had that skill set I would personally target a job as a marine diesel mechanic. Perhaps you should work on your reading comprehension, or better yet stop trying to twist what I say to push your narrative. Frankly, you are trying to misrepresent me to your own ends, and I won't allow you to speak for me.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Your friend of a friend if a A&P Mechanics must have a problem, since AA, SWA, and Delta hired guys in the last few yrs. AA most recently 3/16/20.

"YES" with an A&P you have many different avenues in which you can go. NOT stuck just working on Aircraft. The airlines was yrs ago a place to come to, but now quality of life and financial stability going forward is something to think about. Selling off of seats which cuts our chances of pass riding, not so much of a draw to come here to this industry any longer.

Naa he is just a 40+ (mid to late) year old lazy bastard living with mommy and daddy while using money his grandmother left him to cover his few expenses.

I was making a point that people make all kinds of excuses why they can't find work when the local paper and internet job boards are full of jobs. He just happen to come to mind because he in on a 20+ year streak.

My friend of a friend has made excuses his whole working life. The bill will come when he his parents are gone and he has spent all of his grandmothers money. He will have no retirement and no social security (because he has not worked). My guess is the lazy SoB is probably already scamming welfare and will sign up for disability (despite being able bodied and not working a day in his life) as soon as he can.

I have a cousin in his 30's that lives with mommy who claimed he could not work a job due to "social anxiety". However that did not stop him from attending numerous large parties very frequently. He did recently start working though so I have to at least give him credit for that.

I just have to roll my eyes when people say there are no jobs out there. The only reason they don't see jobs is because they choose not to.