ALPA/USAPA/Pilot Labor Thread for the week 4/12-4/19

[TRAVIS]

What did the usair pilots put into the merger CBA to save jobs when they thought UNITED AIRLINES was going to merge with them? And as I see it. (You did Not remove It and AWA Pilots Used It) And NOW! it's not fair!!!! Shame on you. SHOT IN THE FOOT!

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Venting can be very therapeutic according to Dr. Phil

 

[TRAVIS]

UPS

 

[88 B.T.D.]

I keep hearing people talk about binding arbitration. Wasn't it binding only to ALPA. It never applied to the entire group because it was never consumated with a contract, and probably never could have been without excessive payoff.
Does anyone know if we are currently negotiating a new TA or filing a grievance since our in place contract is now being violated?

 

[TRAVIS]

I keep hearing people talk about binding arbitration. Wasn't it binding only to ALPA. It never applied to the entire group because it was never consumated with a contract, and probably never could have been without excessive payoff.
Does anyone know if we are currently negotiating a new TA or filing a grievance since our in place contract is now being violated?

SEE 700UW HE IS RIGHT! (A change in representation does not set aside binding arbitration awards.) Your Union Said YES to the arbitration...) IF it did not go your way the change is still binding. (And as I see it the new union might want more DUES Soon!).

 

[767jetz]

I keep hearing people talk about binding arbitration. Wasn't it binding only to ALPA.

No. It was binding to both groups of pilots who entered into the arbitration voluntarily and agreed to abide by the award. It is not binding on the union. It is a legal award and will follow you guys around forever. That is what you get for not negotiating in good faith and coming to an agreement before submitting to arbitration.

But as everyone is well aware, now we will actually see what holds up in court and what doesn't.

 

[John]

NOBODY wants your job. We keep ours, you keep yours. We keep our attrition, you keep yours. If you guys had agreed to that in the first place, this vote wouldn't have happened. You guys are complaining that the East had 400 upgrades in 2.5 years. Well, yea, we've had a bunch of retirements. But no, that was too much for the West folks. They wanted our jobs as well as their own.

And don't give me that crap about "career expectations" either. Anybody in the airline business since 9/11 knows there isn't any.

Hey Oldie, really had no intention of ever merging with a bankrupt, decrepit, old, stuffy, dysfunctional airline like US Air. You can thank Mr. Parker for that. "If you guys had agreed to that in the first place..." HA, funny you mentioned agreements. Lets see, binding arbitration... hmmm. "Taking your jobs..." ha... what are you smoking? USAPA only reason for being is to shove DOH down our throat... not going to happen!

 

[ItsJustAJob]

Everyone seems to be centering this whole change in CBA around the seniority integration. It is so much more than that.
We no longer have to rely upon a national structure that supports and caters to the bigger pilot groups. US Airways has never been a priority for ALPA national (at least up until the last 30 days).
We no longer have to support the fat cats in Herndon who are making $300k+ from our dues money.
We are no longer supporting $100k+ salaried secretaries and support staff.
Prater and his EVP's no longer get to use our money for their six digit "housing allowances".
Our dues money no longer goes towards their retirement plan.
The collosal waste of money at the top is no longer our problem. It personally sickened me to see those guys make all that money while the pilots they supposedly represent took HUGE cuts in pay and benefits.
We also no longer have to pay ALPA's 5.5% fee for providing our insurance plans.
Even if the Nic award sticks, we are still far better off.

 

[767jetz]

Even if the Nic award sticks, we are still far better off.

Just remember you said that.

 

[EastUS]

Venting can be very therapeutic according to Dr. Phil

It appears that voting can be very therapeutic as well.

 

[Crzipilot]

Itsjustajob, I agree whole heartedly with you. Prev. comments regarding the arbitration, well I don't know. Nor does anyone else on this board, (unless you are a labor attorney who has argued this particular point, or a judge that has ruled on it) know what will happen. One side says that seniority lives in the contract and can be negotiated, the other says, no, the arbitration is the new seniority list and that is what stands. Well none of us knows for sure until this plays out. From the musings I've heard on the East side since the vote announcement, I haven't heard the term "staple, doh, screw 'em, *u** 'em" when it comes to ideas on seniority integration. What I have heard is, finally ALPA is gone. Now, what can be done to mend fences, get this thing squared away with in a equality fashion, and get a new contract. Of course, once again all this depends on those that are in charge, though I believe USAPA does have in place a senatorial system which requires more line pilot input and ratification. Hopefully in a couple of days, more cooler heads will prevail. The west side alarmists will quiet down, and the East side vindicitive ones with soften up, and we can get on with this. Having one seniority list, and an improved contract will cost the company some money, but even with improvements for both sides, I doubt it's going to cost more than what they can save with a fully combined operation. Which they company desperately needs all the cost savings they can, so I would imagine they are ready to put this thing to bed, besides then Parker can go back to his favorite game of merger mania.

Net net, everyone needs to enjoy the fact that alpa is gone, (if it wasn't for the nic award I'm sure the westies would be glad alpa was gone too) sit back, and see what the next page has in store for us.

 

[LSS]

From the musings I've heard on the East side since the vote announcement, I haven't heard the term "staple, doh, screw 'em, *u** 'em" when it comes to ideas on seniority integration. What I have heard is, finally ALPA is gone. Now, what can be done to mend fences, get this thing squared away with in a equality fashion, and get a new contract. Of course, once again all this depends on those that are in charge, though I believe USAPA does have in place a senatorial system which requires more line pilot input and ratification. Hopefully in a couple of days, more cooler heads will prevail. The west side alarmists will quiet down, and the East side vindicitive ones with soften up, and we can get on with this.

Net net, everyone needs to enjoy the fact that alpa is gone, (if it wasn't for the nic award I'm sure the westies would be glad alpa was gone too) sit back, and see what the next page has in store for us.

A refreshing voice of reason... I completely concur with you.

A USAPA Supporter

 

[UWCactus]

This entire matter was about the principal of honoring a decision made through the legal system. In fairness, I believe that West Pilots were cursing ALPA 5 years ago. It may be better that they are off property, but the fact remains at the time of the merger, US Airways (old) was going to liquidate in a matter of days. Perhaps America West would have gone into bankruptcy down the road..doesn't mean they would have gone away. Looking at today......BOTH HAVE BEEN SAVED, SO START OVER AND REACH FAIR SENIORITY INTEGRATION IF NIC AWARD GOES AWAY. (I think the award stays). There are 30,000 other employees that need work and need this paycheck!!! These jobs are too valuable to lose over ridiculous squabbling.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Hey Oldie, really had no intention of ever merging with a bankrupt, decrepit, old, stuffy, dysfunctional airline like US Air. You can thank Mr. Parker for that. "If you guys had agreed to that in the first place..." HA, funny you mentioned agreements. Lets see, binding arbitration... hmmm. "Taking your jobs..." ha... what are you smoking? USAPA only reason for being is to shove DOH down our throat... not going to happen!

Yea, you can Thank Mr. Parker for saving your careers by merging. No bank was going to back AWA by themselves. We'll see about the status of the Nic award soon enough. Actually, I was thinking DOH was going to be "shoved" somewhere else in the West's anatomy. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

 

[Bear96]

One side says that seniority lives in the contract and can be negotiated, the other says, no, the arbitration is the new seniority list and that is what stands.

Seniority can be negotiated - BUT - the starting point in any such negotiations for USAPA will be the Nic award.