flybynite
Veteran
I am on the same page with you on this...
No one has asked me if I want to separate from the pilots......this is such a big issue, it should be polled. Has it?? No..of course not.
Hell, the pilots don't want a separation either.
AFA Work Issues Thread--10/6-
- Thread starter Richard
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I am on the same page with you on this...
No one has asked me if I want to separate from the pilots......this is such a big issue, it should be polled. Has it?? No..of course not.
Hell, the pilots don't want a separation either.
theFLYonthewall
Advanced
- Feb 6, 2007
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No one wanted to lose VAC, no one wanted to be paid 70% of their sick time, no one wanted to clean airplanes, no one wanted a pay cut, but gee somehow we are all living with it. The "union" voted it in, those votes are made up of every flight attendant on the property, there's your union. Nobody wants to split from the pilots but if there is a t/a and it gets sent out for a vote with split language, it will be voted in if there is a nickel pay raise in it. I say that because flight attendants talk a big game on the jumpseat, but when it comes right down to it they do not have the backbone to turn it down put on a green shirt and and walk the line. By doing that you are not only sending a message to the company you are also putting your elected union officers on notice.
V
VAflyGal
Guest
I have to say that Council 41, at our most recent LEC meeting, DID ask how we felt about splitting form the pilots. Our officers, most notably Alan, were very open to our positions regarding this proposal.
Furloughd4now
Veteran
It should include ALL members, not a select few who have an opportunity to attend a meeting.
V
VAflyGal
Guest
So write an email, make a phone call, collect some signatures. You cant be heard if you don't speak up.
Travelpro72
Veteran
- Jan 30, 2005
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If a group doesn't like their local president then you need to organize and vote to recall them or oust them during the next election as mentioned. Ya see, the problem though is f/a's are busy in their lives and can't be bothered. Everything else is more importnat. 
This is why I believe going to a union meeting to talk to Hector about bags and cups or new entree's to Europe or stating your hatred for the reserve system is not important. Sorry. Now, that said if you wanna get f/a's together and call for a recall GREAT. Get the party started. I'd actually rearrange my schedule to be there for something as important as THAT.
This is why I believe going to a union meeting to talk to Hector about bags and cups or new entree's to Europe or stating your hatred for the reserve system is not important. Sorry. Now, that said if you wanna get f/a's together and call for a recall GREAT. Get the party started. I'd actually rearrange my schedule to be there for something as important as THAT.It will include all members... when we vote on the TA...
and if you don't like it vote NO That includes all members...
also... if you could not attend the meeting you can call one of your reps and voice your views...
So I have heard from many people including the V.P of operations and Planning Brad Beakly that Hector Adler wants to create designated Cabin Service Director (C.S.D) position for our international flights coming this summer. Similar to what other airlines have .CO calls it the International Service Manager(I.S.M) .DL and AA call it the Purser position. It will be a separate bid position . Just want to know what everyones thoughts were on this. I personally think its a great move as it brings about consistency to our intl product and I welcome it . If (and is a big IF) They do it right with qualified F/a's then I think it will be succesfull.
beachboy
Veteran
- Jul 7, 2006
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etops- the union will not agree to this unless it's in a combine contract. It must be negotiated so next summer is highly unlikely.
It will be a no vote from me unless it's an ADD position like the J on the 330-200 and floats. We are not about to give up another position with inflight brown noses on super seniority trips. I'm in support of the program if done right. It must be open to all seniority levels for testing right off the bat based on work records ect. If they need 300 positions to start with it can't go on the top 300 PHL or CLT people just allowed to test locking out others. They will have to arrange for testing for everyone then bid in on seniority within the program. People who participated in coaching and other programs should not get special pats on the head or a wink and a nod. Everyone with a good work record should be allowed to test.
It can't infringe on anyones seniority from the most sr to the most jr. The devil will be in the details. Like I said an ADD position or it's a no vote from me.
It will be a no vote from me unless it's an ADD position like the J on the 330-200 and floats. We are not about to give up another position with inflight brown noses on super seniority trips. I'm in support of the program if done right. It must be open to all seniority levels for testing right off the bat based on work records ect. If they need 300 positions to start with it can't go on the top 300 PHL or CLT people just allowed to test locking out others. They will have to arrange for testing for everyone then bid in on seniority within the program. People who participated in coaching and other programs should not get special pats on the head or a wink and a nod. Everyone with a good work record should be allowed to test.
It can't infringe on anyones seniority from the most sr to the most jr. The devil will be in the details. Like I said an ADD position or it's a no vote from me.
A purser program is probably a good idea, but will likely be poorly received by a F/A group that has simply done whatever they want for years, and from a management team that has zero credibility with it's employees and customers.
Having a division was for no purpose other than not having to train the entire airline for service on such a small part of the network. Just like today, it was bid by seniority from the same group of US F/As that have been plying the skies for decades. F/As like to act as if there was some sort of selection process or something, when in reality anyone could do it, they were just stuck with it for a year. As the international service becomes bigger and more and more domestic leaves mainline, having fenced divisions with the same people is increasingly inefficient. Not to mention part of the old regional mentality that crossing the Atlantic Ocean is somehow profound.
If you don't like the senior F/A that is surly to customers or the reserve F/A who is more concerned with paying rent than studying service procedures learned years ago and rarely used, what difference does having a biddable division rather than biddable trips do?
Some points to remember about US's oft-referred to fantastic international service of the late 90s/early 00s. Number one, Stephen Wolf and Rakesh Gangwal were running the place. Say what you will about them, Wolf knew how to design a brand and Gangwal knew operations. Secondly, US was a happier place to work with an industry leading contract and huge growth. Huge growth meant new F/As with positive attitudes and recent training. Good contract meant retirement when F/As felt they were finished flying. Twice as many F/As as today flew for US Airways because they wanted to, not because they had to. Service and appearance standards were clear and enforced, as was the expectation that US and it's employees do their part to change the corporate image to something more global and professional.
You want consistent service? Have clear and unwavering standards, enforce them and hold those who don't accountable. You want world class service? Train everyone and train constantly. Professionalism? Set a professional tone for the company. Employees who treat customers as an asset and not an annoyance? Do the same for your employees.
Having a brand that customers like and trust takes commitment to a direction from all, and yes, some cost. US's rotten reputation has nothing to do with outdated divisions... the problem runs much much deeper.
Glucose Intolerant
Senior
- Feb 22, 2008
- 443
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I would like to see a "Purser Program" introduced on ITD and a return of the ITD division, but seriously both are very unlikely.
With regards to the Purser Program, it is going to be met with resistance from the "Cartel" and the Union. The cartel can't retire because concessions, the BK judge stripping retirement, the new economy we live in, basically nothing from nothing leaves just that : nothing.
The goal now is to keep a job to supplement Social Security and whats left of 401Ks, work as long as possible can (although as little) until physically no longer able to do so or prevented by age (as with the pilots is the goal). You know - the "new" US Airways retirement plan.
For the company to implement such a program (like DAL and NWA have) where you interview for the position, selected by panel of your peers, that's a great idea IN THEORY. The reality is: US Airways management's utter lack of credibility with it's employees (well sane ones) they no longer have faith that TEMPE could turn on a light switch, much less implement a Purser program with the necessary qualifiers and requirements. Previous failed experiments speak volumes regarding "policy and procedure" matters (i.e. focus groups, coaches, catering pack out, HHD deployment). There is not one aircraft that is being catered the same way with consistency. The likelihood that the only people that the company is going to attract and hire are the same supervisor-management wannabe buffoons" that can only recite "procedure" as they are written without deviating in lieu of actually using their brain. The problem being experienced out on the line on a day to day basis were most likely created by other like minded individuals reinventing the wheel at CHQ. Want an example? Ever seen all the gate "managers" running from gate to gate from airplane to airplane in the morning in PHL? Ever flown through PHX? I thought so.
I never much liked working for, or with a suck up, but they do one redeeming characteristic: predictability.
If given the choice - It would be great have a PURSER position based on job performance and capability, if the company could implement this correctly without trouncing on seniority on work rules, it would be great service to the airline and passengers.
But alas US Airways is not known for the successful "implementation" of anything...so it looks like the Cartel is safe for now.
Also the union probably would not be on board because it has to protect seniority, which is the essence of "cartel" (good number of union leadership in the cartel). It eliminates their gravy train - so don't expect for any of them to go along with this ....unless the company promises the union that SOME F/As would never have to fly a line trip again. That's called a BUY OUT. Then It might fly.
Again very unlikely. US Airways is not known for their "buyouts" either.
With regard to the ITD Division, that probably won't come back either. It was far better from a rest and service continuity stand point, but now the only way F/A can pay their bills is to fly as much as possible. 80 hours doesn't cut it anymore - more like 115-120 just to keep your head above water. God forbid your on reserve - the poor reserves are actually eligible for food stamps. Besides, the company doesn't want well rested and professional F/As and Pilots, if they did, n work rules and pay would reflect that fact - not this separate ops BS getting ready to go into it's 5th year. Tempe just wants CHEAP labor desperate to work for an airline, that can be intimidated and controlled. Well except of course during a FAA or NTSB hearing then of course - it's SAFETY and EMPLOYEES FIRST.
US Airways is not know for it's sincerity or credibility.
The only way the F/As are able fly 120-150 a month and commute, is to fly T/O or Island trips back to back, then a red-eye trip to get home (and back to work) all while doubling up to maximize time. The days of the ITD 4 - 5 - and 6 trip option are no more....now it's the 8-9 and 10 trip fly till you drop option (depending on your seniority or juniority). There is no way anyone could have done that on the Wet lease or ITD Division. The pilots can't even make up for their pay loss by flying more hours like the F/As- their hours are limited by the FAA.
US Airways is not known for it's pay rates or work rules - unless you are looking for a metric to improve upon
Would love to see both of these things happen - but the devil IS in the details and (I doubt) neither will go any further than just talk.
Were are good at THAT at US Airways....just look at our track record.
US Airways IS KNOWN for it's track record.
Travelpro72
Veteran
- Jan 30, 2005
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And yet another FABULOUS and to the point post. 
redheadtempe33
Advanced
- Feb 26, 2009
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As a non AFA person, I'm curious, what are the feelings about this (splitting from the pilots)? I can see the advantages and disadvantages of either way, but I'm wondering what the actual FA's think.
flybynite
Veteran
As an actual f/a, I'm against splitting from the pilots.
I've flown with them and with out them. And as a result, I prefer working my entire trip with them. I like the consistency of being with the same flight crew the entire trip. And I prefer staying on the same equipment also. I am not alone with this opinion. Flying one-day trans-con turns hold no interest for me. They are exhausting and not worth the trouble.
So, no thank you very much.
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