AAA ALPA Thread 10/5 to 10/12

[Phoenix]

Isn't it time we work together to get a good contract from Doug or are you going to be bitching and moaning forever? The way I see it is that you want all new hires hired in the next few years to upgrade before any AWA guy ever does. When does it end? AWA Genius

Until now, the only beef the AWA pilot ever had with Nic was that it wasn't in force yet. But now, in the quote above, we finally have an additional reason offered by the West as to why Nic must be implemented soon.

AWA has a dread fear that the all-powerful East is planning to prevent AWA pilots from upgrading before any of the newhires that are walking in from the street as we speak. Not only is this genius inventing a boogie man to justify why Nic should be in force post haste, he is also breaking ranks from the West mantra about how the East is always a never ending failure in all our dealings with the West. I mean, how the hell are we going to get newhires to upgrade before the West if we couldn't even get 20 year FOs to upgrade before the West?

This guy isn't happy with just a common windfall, he has to invent imaginary monsters (like the StayPuff Marshmallow man) so that Nic's common windfall victory can appear even more dramatic because it even beats down the Staypuff Marshmallow man like Bill Murry in Ghost Busters. (my appologies to those too young to have seen the Ghost Busters movie)

 

[Cactus737]

An honest question sir: Are you really comfortable giving nearly 2 of every hundred dollars you earn up so that Prater and company can "live large"? If for every hour you spend flying, you had to put 2-3 dollar bills in an envelope and mail them to Prater....would you?

We're in agreement there. But considering what the "other guy" has planned, I'll stick with the $2-$3 dollar plan. The "other guy" plans on screwing me out of alot more money than that.

 

[P51Pilot]

We're in agreement there. But considering what the "other guy" has planned, I'll stick with the $2-$3 dollar plan. The "other guy" plans on screwing me out of alot more money than that.

Or keeping what was his and the thief out of the parlor. I guess $2-3$ dollars for the get away driver is a good deal for a thief.

 

[EastUS]

'My argument with Alpo's not based upon the Nic fiasco, but rather a quarter century plus of events and observations as to the overall worthless nature of the "Association", not to be in any way improperly confused with being any "Union". '

East US, you are so correct, First Deregulation, then non support of Patco, TWA wrap around agreement, no PID implementation at Ozark-twa, EAL strike, pensions etc. But OH NOOOOO,,, lets not cross the secretaries/staff strike of last year. ALPO has run its course. Its policies have nothing to do with individual pilots. It's time to put ALPO in the bowl of dog food it deserves.

:angry:

"non support of Patco, TWA wrap around agreement, no PID implementation at Ozark-twa, EAL strike, pensions etc." We all could certainly add volumes to anything that first comes to mind in the neverending story of Alpo failures, defeats, and outright surrendering. I think that their utter incompetence is laughably demonstrated by the Alpo staff employees actions against even thier very "masters"....who were/are apparently too busy trying to "manage expectations" among the pilot groups to even run a workable shop within their own organization. I'd also note that said staff now enjoys pay and benefits far surpassing that of many line pilots around the country that pay Alpo dues. It would seem that the ALpo "big guys" can even be intimidated by their own secretarial staff. These are the same clowns who would have the hapless, desperate, and highly imaginative believe that they will get strong negotiators from, and great contracts in the future.....always "in the future". Folks...you just can't make up stuff weirder, or more laughable than that which actually goes on in the world around us

Cactus737:"We're in agreement there. But considering what the "other guy" has planned, I'll stick with the $2-$3 dollar plan. The "other guy" plans on screwing me out of alot more money than that." I fully apprecate your feelings and concerns. I'm very much hoping that some mutually acceptable middle ground can be found after the union dust clears. We are, whether by liking, design, or just plain fate...pretty much in this mess together.

 

[AWA320]

Or keeping what was his and the thief out of the parlor. I guess $2-3$ dollars for the get away driver is a good deal for a thief.

Or better we should have just let you fail then picked of the pieces that we wanted and we would never have to worry about all the entitled attitudes. That was Doug's biggest mistake but one he is slowly taking care of by closing the east bases. What to look for next, the closure of LGA, BOS and DCA. UAL merger is right around the corner and ALPA strong. Don't say you weren't told.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Or better we should have just let you fail then picked of the pieces that we wanted and we would never have to worry about all the entitled attitudes. That was Doug's biggest mistake but one he is slowly taking care of by closing the east bases. What to look for next, the closure of LGA, BOS and DCA. UAL merger is right around the corner and ALPA strong. Don't say you weren't told.

I have to disagree AWA. If there is a UAL merger, then the Shuttle would stay but PHL would be a goner. The couple of international flights would move to IAD and the gate leases would be sold to AMR and SWA. However, the end result is the same and time will prove one of us correct, so...what do you want to wager!? I know that a lot of this acquisition never made much sense but when you look at it from the perspective of a short term flip, then a lot does make sense.

 

[EastUS]

Or better we should have just let you fail then picked of the pieces that we wanted and we would never have to worry about all the entitled attitudes. That was Doug's biggest mistake but one he is slowly taking care of by closing the east bases. What to look for next, the closure of LGA, BOS and DCA. UAL merger is right around the corner and ALPA strong. Don't say you weren't told.

"Or better we..." I always get a chuckle out of the fact that you whimsically assign yourself some/ANY power over the corporate entity Here's the actual truth: "we" are but employees..."we" don't make any policy decisions, or Tempe would have long ago ceased to be infested with total morons. The remainder of your delusional babble really isn't worth a response.

 

[SegmentKing]

I have to disagree AWA. If there is a UAL merger, then the Shuttle would stay but PHL would be a goner. The couple of international flights would move to IAD and the gate leases would be sold to AMR and SWA. However, the end result is the same and time will prove one of us correct, so...what do you want to wager!? I know that a lot of this acquisition never made much sense but when you look at it from the perspective of a short term flip, then a lot does make sense.

and if there IS a merger with United... any remenants of HP will be wiped out too. UA doesn't need PHX when it has LAX, SFO, and DEN. LAS is barely a hub.

CLT, BOS, LGA, and some remains of DCA/LAS/PHL/PHX would remain.

If United "acquired" USAirways, it would ground 50% of the airline... so all UA would be doing is helping out everyone by reducing capacity while giving DL some competition down south. So what of value, besides CLT, does the company offer?

 

[wopr21]

and if there IS a merger with United... any remenants of HP will be wiped out too. UA doesn't need PHX when it has LAX, SFO, and DEN. LAS is barely a hub.

CLT, BOS, LGA, and some remains of DCA/LAS/PHL/PHX would remain.

If United "acquired" USAirways, it would ground 50% of the airline... so all UA would be doing is helping out everyone by reducing capacity while giving DL some competition down south. So what of value, besides CLT, does the company offer?

Why would UA ground 50% of an airline that makes 500 mil a year.

wopr21

 

[nostradamus]

Or better we should have just let you fail then picked of the pieces that we wanted and we would never have to worry about all the entitled attitudes. That was Doug's biggest mistake but one he is slowly taking care of by closing the east bases. What to look for next, the closure of LGA, BOS and DCA. UAL merger is right around the corner and ALPA strong. Don't say you weren't told.

You sure have accomplished a lot of we are going to this and we are going to do that for being employed by this airline for only 4 years.

 

[nostradamus]

"In 2000s America West Airlines received a loan of $380 million from the Air Transportation Stabilization Board. As of April 2005, the remaining balance on the loan was $300 million. On October 19, 2005, the loan was repaid when the debt was refinanced with other lenders."

America West Airlines and the CEO, now current CEO of Usairways profited from the misery of the 911 incident. Now they are profiting from the hard work and sacrifice that Usairways employees made.

Bottom Line.

 

[sharktooth]

Or better we should have just let you fail then picked of the pieces that we wanted and we would never have to worry about all the entitled attitudes. That was Doug's biggest mistake but one he is slowly taking care of by closing the east bases. What to look for next, the closure of LGA, BOS and DCA. UAL merger is right around the corner and ALPA strong. Don't say you weren't told.

Zanzibar. Did you forget already? You would have picked up nothing while in liquidation throes. Oh, HP benefited to the tune of several hundred million from financiers, put together by the USAir CEO, Lakefield, and not Parker. AWA paid nothing because they had nothing but a short walk off a high cliff.

At least Parker was correct in that without the "merger", US would be in bk (US was already in bk - no change) and AWA would have been liquidated.

 

[Hawkhunter]

I have to disagree AWA. If there is a UAL merger, then the Shuttle would stay but PHL would be a goner. The couple of international flights would move to IAD and the gate leases would be sold to AMR and SWA. However, the end result is the same and time will prove one of us correct, so...what do you want to wager!? I know that a lot of this acquisition never made much sense but when you look at it from the perspective of a short term flip, then a lot does make sense.

And your facts are based upon what? You matter of fact Westies dont have a clue. Oh, I forgot you had dinner with Doug right?

 

[Hawkhunter]

Or better we should have just let you fail then picked of the pieces that we wanted and we would never have to worry about all the entitled attitudes. That was Doug's biggest mistake but one he is slowly taking care of by closing the east bases. What to look for next, the closure of LGA, BOS and DCA. UAL merger is right around the corner and ALPA strong. Don't say you weren't told.

"We?," like you had a say so in anyhting at all what AWA did or does. Talk about entitlement attitudes. AWA DID NOT BUY USAIR!, AWA DID NOT PUT UP ONE PENNY, GET IT? Doug closes one base and the sky is falling. US has closed many bases in the past, so what. The East is the money maker and if Us and UAL merge US has the money not UAL. But thanks, we have been warned, told and threatened by you Westies. Dream on.

 

[Cactus737]

Or keeping what was his and the thief out of the parlor. I guess $2-3$ dollars for the get away driver is a good deal for a thief.

See, that's funny. It's difficult for me to figure out how you can rationalize to yourself date-of-hire is fair when it would provide block-holding captain seats to pilots returning from furlough. When does a furloughed pilot have an expectation to return from furlough to anything other than the bottom of the active list? I also have a hard time figuring out how a 1998 AAA hire, who had less than 3 years of service when furloughed, who was on furlough for MORE THAN 3 YEARS when the merger was annoucned, should be placed ahead of a 1998-hire AWA captain who has never been furloughed.

Sorry, but when you're proposing an integration method that replaces active AWA pilots with furloughed AAA pilots, THAT'S stealing.

BTW - the reason why DOH is removed from merger policy is because it does NOT always provide a fair and equitable seniority integration method by the opinion of the overwhelming majority of the airline industry. YOU happen to think it is fair because YOU are employed by the most senior pilot group in the industry, and it benefits you the most.

Anyhow, the reason why USAPA is going to cost me money is NOT because of their proposed seniority integration (which has a minimal chance of success at best). The cost will be the countless lawsuits I pony up for, and the lack of a contract for many years to come.