AA and Labor Negotiations-2020

[CremaDiLimone]

so that's the spin??

ok..so i guess stores was in line to get 10.4% and AMTs 19.1% on DOS.

 

[NYer]

also, watch and see. eventually, envoy will get signed.

i'll bet the twu gets them more than a 4.7% raise on their DOS. this is envoy we're talking about.

from what i've heard at work...and i'm not happy, but there are many more who are very angry:

- exploring a way to get rid of the twu. a few are saying the only option left are the teamsters. this will bubble further if iam work rules are applied.

- no twu president will get re-elected. the poor presidents got done in by those who seemingly have jobs for life - and doing a crap job not looking after their dues-payers.

a few at work have shown me posts (i'm not on facebook) from an ex-poster around here and he's all for this AIP. it's his prerogative - i feel all are entitled to their opinion(s), but the pro-nelson people are saying tim nelson was correct all along...doing this to get a twu job.

believe it or not, nelson has some twu supporters in my station.

also, my opinion is that tim nelson was more or less correct about much of the details. it figures, since this was an exclusive iam operation. any twu fly would have been a false flag operation.

i wanted delta +3%, $6k bonus and full retro...that's where i stand with this. i agree with those that said the money in this deal was a 'yes' in 2017. to me, not in 2020.

Would like to have those things too, more pay, but the language that has come out and what hasn't come out isn't even considered. EVERYTHING, is going to change and people are stuck on $3K and someone else's medical.

This gets voted in and next year we'll hear the chants about being lied to with the PS, because they payout won't be in Delta territory.

All the language changes, especially for the TWU.

It will be mind boggling. Then everyone will see why they didn't want the Presidents anywhere near those rooms.

 

[ALUS78]

AL, what AA has done is taken good jobs (ones senior folks would bid) and made them part time. Also have taken some jobs the a senior guy would bid and add it do an as assigned pool and cutting it by one therefore eliminating good jobs.

I got it i havent seen too much of that here we hear rumblings when p/t gets more weekend shifts.i look at it this way im 60 years old and work the bagroom if they want to put me outside im still 60 so im pretty sure the thing the managers are so uptight with that being on time departures might be compromised and not intentionally its just i dont move like i used to.There's alot of mes.

 

[dfw gen]

In the beginning? Yes, we did. Like I said, after we met with the economist and got all the info and all pertaining graphs and charts explaining everything in great detail, is when the membership stood for making ourselves whole. Our nego cmte did the same as yours is doing now, they did at first agree to bring it out for a vote and even told the company (at first) that they should be able to recommend it. Later, after allowing our economist go thru it with a fine tooth comb, did we all find out how tricky the company was being with their explanations and math goofs. When you are looking at almost 7 years of back wages, 7 years of back 401K and PS compounded %, and interest etc... It takes a professional economist and accountants to go thru all that and explain in forensic accounting details how we were missing out on 37 million plus on the front half alone.
Sorry VO, but I would not vote yes or no without reading, taking in, evaluating every word that changes within the new contract. Sometimes work rules and regs and outsourcing as well as other language could be more costly than the $$$ most only see in a new contract offer. Hiring our independent professional economist and accountants for our contract was the best money spent and well, well worth it, YOU guys should do the same and stop believing everything this asso tells you for once.

unfortunately with the association we dont use economist, and external lawyers and negotiators. they like to do it all themselves then call a lawyer later and run it by them. if they heed advice i have no idea. personally i would not be surprised if this ta was driven by the court case and the card drive. at the same time the company is starting to hit crunch time with the feds. and again unfortunately the company is much better at playing poker the the association.as i posted earlier what do we do? we waited 5 years for an offer that has basically been on the table for two years, do we send them back? what will the iam im sorry i mean association do for us. we all know the twu is on mute. or do we turn it down accelerate the card drive and hope to change representation. i would imagine that would take at least a year.

 

[dfw gen]

Would like to have those things too, more pay, but the language that has come out and what hasn't come out isn't even considered. EVERYTHING, is going to change and people are stuck on $3K and someone else's medical.

This gets voted in and next year we'll hear the chants about being lied to with the PS, because they payout won't be in Delta territory.

All the language changes, especially for the TWU.

It will be mind boggling. Then everyone will see why they didn't want the Presidents anywhere near those rooms.

yup. on profit sharing is it a "me to" that everyone has to get it before its implemented?

trust me maintenance isn't thrilled either.

 

[dfw gen]

Would like to have those things too, more pay, but the language that has come out and what hasn't come out isn't even considered. EVERYTHING, is going to change and people are stuck on $3K and someone else's medical.

This gets voted in and next year we'll hear the chants about being lied to with the PS, because they payout won't be in Delta territory.

All the language changes, especially for the TWU.

It will be mind boggling. Then everyone will see why they didn't want the Presidents anywhere near those rooms.

they didnt want the presidents in the room because that s not the way the iam does things.

 

[NYer]

yup. on profit sharing is it a "me to" that everyone has to get it before its implemented?

trust me maintenance isn't thrilled either.

That nugget won't go over well.

 

[NYer]

they didnt want the presidents in the room because that s not the way the iam does things.

I might buy that if they briefed the Presidents with more details and taken more input from them.

 

[skinvalve]

The recent announcement of a possible company early out offer is of interest and reminded me of the (VEOP) Voluntary Early Out Program as listed on an IAM proposal dated July 2014 for M&R. Basically, if you were eligible you would get a lump sum of $22,500.00 plus up to 15 weeks severance pay. Company would decide when, where, and how many would be eligible. Reference : District Lodge 142 File: USA-18. Anyone have any ideas of what a company early out might look like now?

 

[ALUS78]

yup. on profit sharing is it a "me to" that everyone has to get it before its implemented?

trust me maintenance isn't thrilled either.

Where did you get that??

 

[swamt]

No one gives a **** anymore. Take the money and run. That is all that matters. I guess you are one of those people that think any of this matters. 35 years tells me better. Wake up idiot.

Brother, he woke up years ago. He has taken the brunt of all this.

excuse me? who is taking from whom???

there's a reason why our DOS raises are lame and why we aren't getting what everyone else is getting as a 'bonus'.
Then vote it down. Why settle?

delta +.1 red cent.

?

also, watch and see. eventually, envoy will get signed.

i'll bet the twu gets them more than a 4.7% raise on their DOS. this is envoy we're talking about.

from what i've heard at work...and i'm not happy, but there are many more who are very angry:

- exploring a way to get rid of the twu. a few are saying the only option left are the teamsters. this will bubble further if iam work rules are applied.

- no twu president will get re-elected. the poor presidents got done in by those who seemingly have jobs for life - and doing a crap job not looking after their dues-payers.

a few at work have shown me posts (i'm not on facebook) from an ex-poster around here and he's all for this AIP. it's his prerogative - i feel all are entitled to their opinion(s), but the pro-nelson people are saying tim nelson was correct all along...doing this to get a twu job.

believe it or not, nelson has some twu supporters in my station.

also, my opinion is that tim nelson was more or less correct about much of the details. it figures, since this was an exclusive iam operation. any twu fly would have been a false flag operation.

i wanted delta +3%, $6k bonus and full retro...that's where i stand with this. i agree with those that said the money in this deal was a 'yes' in 2017. to me, not in 2020.

As you mentioned Envoy, maybe AMFA should focus on them now, huh?

 

[swamt]

February 4, 2020
What to Know About the Early Out Offer
Sisters and Brothers,
The Company has informed the Association that they are planning to offer an Early Out to Association Members at some point and time under terms and conditions established by the Company.
Why is this not part of the Agreement in Principle:
1. As part of the negotiation process over the past several years, the Company has discussed offering an Early Out to Association Members. The Association informed the Company that if we were to agree to an Early Out as part of the contract it would have to be offered by Seniority to any Member in the system who applied. The Company stated they could not agree to such application.
2. In the last session, prior to reaching an Agreement in Principle on the terms and conditions of open items that the Association had proposed, the Company indicated that the cost of offering an Early Out during the JCBA was going to cost millions of dollars. The Association did not agree to any cost for an Early Out since it is a program the Company will unilaterally offer and is not part of the collective bargaining agreement. In fact, the carrier could have made the offer at any time, since it was never a part of our negotiations.
3. So, an Early Out could be offered by the Company, but since the Company does not agree to offer such Early Out by Seniority as the Association discussed, the terms and conditions of the Early Out will be solely established by the Company.
Many of you have sacrificed much over the years and may have the opportunity to participate in an Early Out, but the Association could not agree to allow the Company to circumvent a Member’s Seniority or allow millions of dollars to be held over our heads in negotiations.
Please Post on All TWU- IAM Bulletin Boards

WTF? Are you serious? Why would a union want this to be part of the agreement? C'mon Man! Anytime you tie an EO buy out within the same voting as a new contract is just BS. An early out offer should be offered by the co. for any employee with a certain amount of years they have given, multiplied by a said factor. NOT tied to any new contract offer being made, plain and simple and PERIOD. And BTW, the union should have no say so what so ever on if it's by seniority or not, it SHOULD be by number of years at the co. NOT seniority in certain cat of a group.

 

[swamt]

Would like to have those things too, more pay, but the language that has come out and what hasn't come out isn't even considered. EVERYTHING, is going to change and people are stuck on $3K and someone else's medical.

This gets voted in and next year we'll hear the chants about being lied to with the PS, because they payout won't be in Delta territory.

All the language changes, especially for the TWU.

It will be mind boggling. Then everyone will see why they didn't want the Presidents anywhere near those rooms.

Welcome to T/A day!

 

[swamt]

unfortunately with the association we dont use economist, and external lawyers and negotiators. they like to do it all themselves then call a lawyer later and run it by them. if they heed advice i have no idea. personally i would not be surprised if this ta was driven by the court case and the card drive. at the same time the company is starting to hit crunch time with the feds. and again unfortunately the company is much better at playing poker the the association.as i posted earlier what do we do? we waited 5 years for an offer that has basically been on the table for two years, do we send them back? what will the iam im sorry i mean association do for us. we all know the twu is on mute. or do we turn it down accelerate the card drive and hope to change representation. i would imagine that would take at least a year.

DFW, At this point it is very hard to say. Would I trust this asso to get a better deal? No way in hell! Do I vote yes for this POS offer with no retro and all other failures? No way in hell! I need to see the rest of the story (language). But my main focus would be replacing this "F" up pathetic representational organization called the asso. Whatever it may take. If that means vote yes on contract and fire these MoFo's then I would do so happily. Just sad you guys would have to vote in another one just to get AMFA in but I think it may be the case here.

 

[swamt]

SWAMT you sure have a lot to say for someone that don’t work for AA. I understand that you want AMFA to grow but why don’t you worry more about stuff that concerns you. I was not even talking to you and you still felt the need to comment. I like I told you before. When we do get AMFA. We will take over and it won’t be ran by a bunch of disgruntled divorced guys. Maybe we will even bring a little color to the table. Unlike USAir. American Airlines has all colors working as Mechanics.

And I will not stop until AMFA is in at AA. A solid goal of mine to see prior to retiring for sure.
It does concern me. No disrespect, but your last few decades of concessionary contracts (at AA) have hurt the industry as a whole, IAM included there. So I will promote any kind of advancements within the industry as a whole. I am not an IGM'er as most are. Junkie, know who you are talking to before spatting off like that, just FYI.