AA and Labor Negotiations-2020

[V.O. Reason]

You sound like a management troll. Let me guess America West. Those of us who have been here for many years have done nothing but give back. Easy enough for some like you in the minority who has done much better than those in the majority who have had no say in our future. Hurry up and vote yes. A no vote tells the union and the company they need to do better. Go ahead and hate on those of us who believe we deserve a good quality job not just have a job. But it's your choice to settle and be a sheep.

Let’s just say I’m old enough to have seen Eastern and Pan Am going under with this kind of thinking. Where we have to have the best of the best of the best.
Well the airline industry has changed you have to remain competitive with your peers which is exactly what this agreement will do.
There is no way we can ever regain all that was lost over the last 10 or so years.
For me and my 35 plus years thank you very much I would much rather see a healthy company that has a future then allow it to run into the ground so greedy people can feel like they accomplished something .
If what we make and have the potential to make via OT and holidays and it’s not enough for you than sounds like you need to look elsewhere.
I knew the job going in nothing is ever going to be perfect

 

[dfw gen]

ARE YOU KIDDING!!!!!!!! On the AA side for the last 5 years we have had to look over at the US side and see them make an extra 30,000 a year more than us. We have lost money into our 401K, our medical cost have been double from the US side, we have had half the holidays at lower pay, less sick leave. There is twice of us on the TWU side than there is on the IAM side . We have not been allowed to vote on anything (including representation). For this committee to appease the US side with continued lower health costs and an insulting $6,000 bonus and not full retro is a big SHITE SANDWICH. Not just a NO vote but a HELL NO VOTE. Where a re the AMFA cards.

I messaged you, if yoy need cards we will get them to you

 

[AMFAinMIAMI]

Let’s just say I’m old enough to have seen Eastern and Pan Am going under with this kind of thinking. Where we have to have the best of the best of the best.
Well the airline industry has changed you have to remain competitive with your peers which is exactly what this agreement will do.
There is no way we can ever regain all that was lost over the last 10 or so years.
For me and my 35 plus years thank you very much I would much rather see a healthy company that has a future then allow it to run into the ground so greedy people can feel like they accomplished something .
If what we make and have the potential to make via OT and holidays and it’s not enough for you than sounds like you need to look elsewhere.
I knew the job going in nothing is ever going to be perfect

V.O. R

Everyone has the right to their opinion, just as you say you have been around for a long time well so have I.
I am here to tell you as an EX Eastern Mechanic that most of the EAL people will say they feel Good about what they did. The NWA guys the same.
To believe that looking out for each other and the people who follow is a concept that MOST of the AA people know Nothing about. Here its always been get what you can. IGM attitude. Never has there been any fight in the dog. NEVER. The TWU leadership has failed the membership over and over. How many more yrs are you going to think we'll getem next time is going to work. I am commenting because you seem to believe the EAL guys were wrong. Far from it.

That was the Last airline company that employees said enough and took things into their own hands. All the Unions stood as ONE. That is something that at AA you will NEVER see Happen. NWA the mechanics struck and the Pilots, Flight Att. and Fleet crossed the picket lines. SCABS...

You have your right to vote and vote the way that is best for you. However this all works out, AA wins, the employees get the two scoops of KY Jelly again.

 

[V.O. Reason]

V.O. R

Everyone has the right to their opinion, just as you say you have been around for a long time well so have I.
I am here to tell you as an EX Eastern Mechanic that most of the EAL people will say they feel Good about what they did. The NWA guys the same.
To believe that looking out for each other and the people who follow is a concept that MOST of the AA people know Nothing about. Here its always been get what you can. IGM attitude. Never has there been any fight in the dog. NEVER. The TWU leadership has failed the membership over and over. How many more yrs are you going to think we'll getem next time is going to work. I am commenting because you seem to believe the EAL guys were wrong. Far from it.

That was the Last airline company that employees said enough and took things into their own hands. All the Unions stood as ONE. That is something that at AA you will NEVER see Happen. NWA the mechanics struck and the Pilots, Flight Att. and Fleet crossed the picket lines. SCABS...

You have your right to vote and vote the way that is best for you. However this all works out, AA wins, the employees get the two scoops of KY Jelly again.

I will say this Eastern management was a big problem for sure they did the employees no favors in how they ran the company.
I don’t think the AA management are quite that bad but sure they are looking out for shareholders and for themselves.
So don’t get me wrong I’ve got no love for the guys in charge here.
Again though I really don’t see much of anything I can’t live without in the agreement, sure there are some problems but I don’t see how voting against it will make any difference in the outcome. All it will do is harm many of these folks who need a step up and have been waiting a while for it.

 

[Buck]

what's Delta's pay and vacation?

Let me see?
Better than ours...

 

[Real tired]

A typical IAM contract, right by the playbook.

Wait years to hear anything...........
The bullet point list...............
The yes voters come out to defend that bullet point list...........
The contract passes at 50 + 1%........
The crying begins..............

Soon the union will say, "You voted for it", "They were tough negotiators", "We had our backs against the wall".

How can anybody here make a decision on how they are going to vote by a bullet point list?

Remember the phrase....."vote scope". You have to vote the scope of the agreement, not the bullet point list.

 

[swamt]

ARE YOU KIDDING!!!!!!!! On the AA side for the last 5 years we have had to look over at the US side and see them make an extra 30,000 a year more than us. We have lost money into our 401K, our medical cost have been double from the US side, we have had half the holidays at lower pay, less sick leave. There is twice of us on the TWU side than there is on the IAM side . We have not been allowed to vote on anything (including representation). For this committee to appease the US side with continued lower health costs and an insulting $6,000 bonus and not full retro is a big SHITE SANDWICH. Not just a NO vote but a HELL NO VOTE. Where a re the AMFA cards.

HEAR-HEAR money. Why is that? Think about it as you are. Fire this fiasco, pathetic asso. and get A Class & Craft union in here to represent you guys as you should be represented.

 

[swamt]

Let’s just say I’m old enough to have seen Eastern and Pan Am going under with this kind of thinking. Where we have to have the best of the best of the best.
Well the airline industry has changed you have to remain competitive with your peers which is exactly what this agreement will do.
There is no way we can ever regain all that was lost over the last 10 or so years.
For me and my 35 plus years thank you very much I would much rather see a healthy company that has a future then allow it to run into the ground so greedy people can feel like they accomplished something .
If what we make and have the potential to make via OT and holidays and it’s not enough for you than sounds like you need to look elsewhere.
I knew the job going in nothing is ever going to be perfect

Wow! You are company management. Doesn't get any more point blank than that.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Another loudmouth sellout. Sito obviously out educated you or you are bought and paid for.
You are going to sign something your members are not even equal to the folks they work with.


View attachment 15036

this guy should be ashamed at what his organization brought to laa fleet to vote. maybe he didn't know...i don't know.

we, at laa, were told from 2014 til yesterday that the compensatory discrepancy with lus would vanish and all be would equal with the next contract. it's here and there are still compensatory discrepancies that favor lus over laa.

1) parker did nothing to smooth everything over after bringing lus non-hub employees up to laa wages. he knew how to right that wrong. his leadership consists of his employees bickering over obvious compensatory discrepancies by equals (seniority/job classification).

2) the twu told us..just wait..

3) the iam, didn't give a flying banana peel.

no clue how the iam strong-armed it's way into the president's seat of this assoc.

it's clear it's main objective was to maintain lus' 2014 compensatory advantages to laa's detriment...now, all the way to 2025.

no offense to lus or it's negotiators who post here. the only offense to be taken would be to make up absurd rationale to justify what has occurred with this AIP (the twu would have stolen my seniority, etc.). i blame the twu and to some extent, the company, for allowing this to happen.

i will vote no, without even looking at scope, i don't give a f(uck about the great victory of catering jobs, though we know there is a very tiny minority who do.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

Well the airline industry has changed you have to remain competitive with your peers

yes, that's why non-hub lus employees were brought up to laa wages after the merger.

today, after you getting 5 1/2 years of more holidays/holiday pay/sk time and cheaper insurance than me from your 2014 stand-alone contract...i'm being asked to vote to pay more for insurance than you?

in fact, maybe i'm being asked to vote yes to losing $3k, 3% more than dl and possibly retro so you can have your cheaper insurance and catering jobs?

 

[necigrad]

I've been thinking about this "agreement in principal" for Fleet for over a day now. As time goes on I lean more and more towards a "No." Let me explain why. For perspective I'm a 21 year employee and, if it matters, LUS.

PAY: We were promised DL or UA (whichever is higher) +7%. Then they gave us profit sharing and said because of that it would be only +3%. A 4.8% raise tops us out at $32.28. UA (I don't know the DL number) is at $32.01 RIGHT NOW; UA +3% is $32.97. Oh, and BTW, UA is about to enter negotiations in a few months, so of course they'll be getting higher raises.

PROFIT SHARING: I get it, but what profit? You can't sell this as a benefit when there isn't profit to be shared. I've HEARD that if 2019 was paid out on the agreed to rules our PS would have been about double; that still puts at something like 20-25% of what DL got.

SIGNING BONUS: After what? Four years? You're going to give the people who have been here fo decades, some four or MORE decades $3000 along with the people who just walked in the door? Give the new guys $3000; those who have been here at least since the AA/US merger deserve more.

SCOPE AND JOB PROTECTION: There's a lot of questions here, but we do know some. Some known or questionable negatives from the agreement are...
Cargo: What work exactly is protected? Is it just going to be running cargo? Office work?
Catering (PHL/CLT): Gone at the end of this contract. Job loss.

MEDICAL: First off, while I know a lot of people like the 100% LUS insurance I think VERY few of them are likely to actually need that, if any. IT's just WAY overpaying for unneeded coverage. Because of that I don't object to getting rid of it. The 90% plan however, I do object to. It WILL be gone after 2025, and it's a reasonable step for many above the 80% plan. The "Me too" clause is borderline bait & switch; not that it's ONLY regarding the Standard and Core plans. Lastly, we're supposed to be bring LAA and LUS together; How the HELL do you do that by offering one group a better plan? HIGHLY OFFENSIVE TO LAA!
RETIREMENT: I'm going to set aside the pension arguments; they may well be moot if TWU can't get in them and I know many LUS (myself included) don't want to give them up. Because of that I'm going to assume (correctly or not) that the pension and 5% contribution are relatively equal. That leaves the 4% match and a (I think) effective 9% match for comparison. The FAs get I think 9.9% match and we're close to that. The pilots however get I think 14% contribution automatically, not a match, just 14%.
RETIREE BENEFITS: I really don't think I have an opinion here, so I'll just leave it alone.

VACATION: This is a mega sore spot because of where I fall. I've had four weeks for I think nine years now. If I was admin I'd have had a fifth week four years ago. The scale will fix that, BUT IN THREE YEARS. I need to wait ANOTHER three years for a fifth week, and then I just to six right after? Come on, split the difference!

HOLIDAYS: ASSUMING there's nothing shady, I have no complaints here. In fact I'd say the 2 1/2 rate is a good improvement.

OT: On it's face it seems all right, but I'd like to see the language before judging.

SICK LEAVE: Not much of a change here IMO coming from th eUS side. We get that tenth day back. Payout for unused time when leaving is still offensive though.

HOURS OF SERVICE AND TRAINING: Really can't comment here. The summary is just too vague.

Overall, I think I would vote for this contract. In 2017, maybe even early 2018. Now, it's simply a case of "After all that time THIS is all we get???" This falls far short of what we should get and even short of what we were promised by Parker. Barring spectacular things in the full language I'll likely be a no vote. I encourage everyone to vote what YOU think, but don't just look at the money. The money doesn't matter when you don't have a job, have to pay a lot more for insurance, get treated different than your coworkers, or could and SHOULD have had more.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

i agree with just about all. the money is extremely disappointing for fleet..no retro sets a dangerous precedent that could make this contract seem like a 100 meter sprint compared to the next one.

the fact that the company was so gung-ho about insurance and surprisingly flipped at what seems like the last moment:

- company is desperate for a deal. company still being stingy, rather give the cheaper insurance to the lesser amount of assoc. members, not all the assoc. members.

really poor mngt. decision from hq. piss-poor. spending millions on fairness and equality and non-bias.

- the assoc. really represented the lus iam members. the assoc. must have been fighting tooth and nail behind the scenes to make 2 things happen: please, can we keep our insurance and please, can we keep catering.

there's no doubt that fleet paid for that. less bonus? no retro? less DOS raise?

take from all to pay for the minority? bottom line, i'm lus, i have to vote yes.

 

[Buck]

Let me see?
Better than ours...

There is a story that during negotiations about a year or so ago that the company approached the Association with a Vacation offer to the Mechanics based on equivalency with the Mechanics at United. The Mechanics at United have 7 weeks at 29 years and the company offered it to the American Mechanics. However, our Association said no based on Fleet not being made this offer, that the United Fleet did not have either.

 

[skinvalve]

Assuming the contract is voted in. Does anyone have an idea of what will be the (DOS) date of signing?

 

[Rogallo]

HEAR-HEAR money. Why is that? Think about it as you are. Fire this fiasco, pathetic asso. and get A Class & Craft union in here to represent you guys as you should be represented.

Just had too!