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Checking it Out said:
A DREAM is better than a SELL-OUT anyday of the week!
A New Movement To Oust The Twu At Aa?
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A DREAM is better than a SELL-OUT anyday of the week!
Wretched Wrench
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Checking it Out said:
Nope. It has been "mention" out on the floor where mechanics work on airplanes.
A LOT.
Several years back, in a discussion with Luby, he said the TWU was safe from poaching by the Teamsters because they were AFL CIO. Neither of us envisioned them leaving the AFL CIO.
The AFL CIO showed themselves to be useless at the outset of the PATCO strike. That was the beginning of the weakening of unions in this country. Their inaction is a direct cause of the situation we have today.
upsilon
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I have been reading this and other aviation boards over many years and noting the disparate opinions on labor unions between the Line and the Base AMTs. The posts in this new thread have exposed more of the reasons for this disparity than all of the vitriolic pro/con AMFA rhetoric in the past years.
And the TWU was also NYC based - founded and headed by Mike Quill. He got its start organizing workers in the then privately owned NYC subway companies (IRT, BMT, IND) and bus lines (Fifth Avenue Coach, etc).
In those days, airlines were just another form of "transport"; and this “industrial†union went after them. I presume this explains why the original hourly-wage employee AA company-wide union was the TWU.
I further understand that when the members of the Airline Stewardess TWU Local 550 voted to disaffiliate, they were not welcome in AFA, an AFL-CIO affiliated union. Thus, the independent APFA - is this correct?
As one who 50 years ago flew military single-engine, the AMT are to me the “crew†that counts the most. Thus I would like to better understand the genesis of the AMT discontent. Is the seniority-based scale the same for Base in TX and OK, vs. Line in NYC? If so, the unhappiness of Line AMT in NY seems understandable. In the previous era of “industry-leading†contracts, this was great for AMT in the lower COL areas; but when pay cuts came, the higher COL area AMT felt it the most relatively.
I can’t help but note that that there appears to be only about a dozen AMT who use this BB to complain/biitch about any and every thing negative/positive relating to AA. And that group seems to be equally divided pro/anti TWU. But the most bitter seem to be the anti-TWU AMT who also never express anything positive about AA. For a die-hard union advocate, it must be pure hell to be so bitterly opposed to ones employer AND union!
Just my thoughts; but I would appreciate answers on the questions about APFA and Base/Line AMT pay scale.
I have often wondered how AMT employees came to be represented by the TWU. I surmised it was because AA was once the NYC airline and was based here. I understand the four hangers on the West end of the LGA terminal were “heavy†maintenance bases for the DC-3.Wretched Wrench said:
And the TWU was also NYC based - founded and headed by Mike Quill. He got its start organizing workers in the then privately owned NYC subway companies (IRT, BMT, IND) and bus lines (Fifth Avenue Coach, etc).
In those days, airlines were just another form of "transport"; and this “industrial†union went after them. I presume this explains why the original hourly-wage employee AA company-wide union was the TWU.
I further understand that when the members of the Airline Stewardess TWU Local 550 voted to disaffiliate, they were not welcome in AFA, an AFL-CIO affiliated union. Thus, the independent APFA - is this correct?
As one who 50 years ago flew military single-engine, the AMT are to me the “crew†that counts the most. Thus I would like to better understand the genesis of the AMT discontent. Is the seniority-based scale the same for Base in TX and OK, vs. Line in NYC? If so, the unhappiness of Line AMT in NY seems understandable. In the previous era of “industry-leading†contracts, this was great for AMT in the lower COL areas; but when pay cuts came, the higher COL area AMT felt it the most relatively.
I can’t help but note that that there appears to be only about a dozen AMT who use this BB to complain/biitch about any and every thing negative/positive relating to AA. And that group seems to be equally divided pro/anti TWU. But the most bitter seem to be the anti-TWU AMT who also never express anything positive about AA. For a die-hard union advocate, it must be pure hell to be so bitterly opposed to ones employer AND union!
Just my thoughts; but I would appreciate answers on the questions about APFA and Base/Line AMT pay scale.
Wretched Wrench said:
FWIW, I worked at UPS years ago for about 2 and a half months in one of their warehouses loading trucks part-time and was a teamster member. They did very little for the part timers in the warehouse but in my opinion took very good care of the drivers. If you decided to go teamsters, you might find what you are looking for.
Class envy? Not at all. I was just wondering why the AMFA supporters would consider going from one industrial union to another instead of continuing to pursue their longtime goal of an AMT only craft union.
At this point I'll take any port in the storm. The TWU must go!!!MCI transplant said:
Keep collecting AMFA cards and sending them in.
Right now this is pure speculation. So far the Teamsters have made it clear that they are not looking to raid. The idea of consolidating the labor movement is from the SEIU, not the Teamsters. Hoffa seems to just want more agressive organizing. Hoffa and Stern are not on the same page however if Hoffa believed that he could scoop up the airline industry he may change his tune.
upsilon,Jul 28 2005, 01:31 AM]
I have been reading this and other aviation boards over many years and noting the disparate opinions on labor unions between the Line and the Base AMTs. The posts in this new thread have exposed more of the reasons for this disparity than all of the vitriolic pro/con AMFA rhetoric in the past years.
I have often wondered how AMT employees came to be represented by the TWU. I surmised it was because AA was once the NYC airline and was based here. I understand the four hangers on the West end of the LGA terminal were “heavy†maintenance bases for the DC-3.
Three hangars.
And the TWU was also NYC based - founded and headed by Mike Quill. He got its start organizing workers in the then privately owned NYC subway companies (IRT, BMT, IND) and bus lines (Fifth Avenue Coach, etc).
In those days, airlines were just another form of "transport"; and this “industrial†union went after them. I presume this explains why the original hourly-wage employee AA company-wide union was the TWU.
I further understand that when the members of the Airline Stewardess TWU Local 550 voted to disaffiliate, they were not welcome in AFA, an AFL-CIO affiliated union. Thus, the independent APFA - is this correct?
That was the story I got. And when the NWA Flight Attendants wanted to leave the Teamsters they were rejected by both the AFA and the APFA.
As one who 50 years ago flew military single-engine, the AMT are to me the “crew†that counts the most. Thus I would like to better understand the genesis of the AMT discontent. Is the seniority-based scale the same for Base in TX and OK, vs. Line in NYC?
Yes. The general mindset out of Local 514 in Tulsa appears to be that line mechanics should be content to earn the same wage they earn in a low cost area, in fact they feel that we should be willing to sacrifice all our disposable income as well as our non-disposable income to secure their jobs and good living standards. They dont care if the sacrifice that we are being forced to make in their behalf destroys our ability to support our families so long as they can live very well at our expense. If we say that perhaps the Tulsa rate should be lowered more than ours to account for the cost difference(and the fact that they are ones who are willing to work for less) they object. From what comes out of Local 514(the Tulsa TWU Local) Regional differentials are out of the question.This is an example of the Tyranny of the Majority. The arrogance of Tulsa leaders who have the largest number of members(even though most of them were put in office by less than 3000 votes) and their complete disregard for the living standards of their fellow union brothers, even to the point of being vindictive, and the TWUs complicity in this has permanantly created divisions between the members. Local 514 leaders have no concept in the ideal of unionism. They feel that since they are the majority that its their right to sit back and live a comfortable existance off the suffering of other members. "I got mine" is the defining phrase of their brand of "unionism".
I have been reading this and other aviation boards over many years and noting the disparate opinions on labor unions between the Line and the Base AMTs. The posts in this new thread have exposed more of the reasons for this disparity than all of the vitriolic pro/con AMFA rhetoric in the past years.
I have often wondered how AMT employees came to be represented by the TWU. I surmised it was because AA was once the NYC airline and was based here. I understand the four hangers on the West end of the LGA terminal were “heavy†maintenance bases for the DC-3.
Three hangars.
And the TWU was also NYC based - founded and headed by Mike Quill. He got its start organizing workers in the then privately owned NYC subway companies (IRT, BMT, IND) and bus lines (Fifth Avenue Coach, etc).
In those days, airlines were just another form of "transport"; and this “industrial†union went after them. I presume this explains why the original hourly-wage employee AA company-wide union was the TWU.
I further understand that when the members of the Airline Stewardess TWU Local 550 voted to disaffiliate, they were not welcome in AFA, an AFL-CIO affiliated union. Thus, the independent APFA - is this correct?
That was the story I got. And when the NWA Flight Attendants wanted to leave the Teamsters they were rejected by both the AFA and the APFA.
As one who 50 years ago flew military single-engine, the AMT are to me the “crew†that counts the most. Thus I would like to better understand the genesis of the AMT discontent. Is the seniority-based scale the same for Base in TX and OK, vs. Line in NYC?
Yes. The general mindset out of Local 514 in Tulsa appears to be that line mechanics should be content to earn the same wage they earn in a low cost area, in fact they feel that we should be willing to sacrifice all our disposable income as well as our non-disposable income to secure their jobs and good living standards. They dont care if the sacrifice that we are being forced to make in their behalf destroys our ability to support our families so long as they can live very well at our expense. If we say that perhaps the Tulsa rate should be lowered more than ours to account for the cost difference(and the fact that they are ones who are willing to work for less) they object. From what comes out of Local 514(the Tulsa TWU Local) Regional differentials are out of the question.This is an example of the Tyranny of the Majority. The arrogance of Tulsa leaders who have the largest number of members(even though most of them were put in office by less than 3000 votes) and their complete disregard for the living standards of their fellow union brothers, even to the point of being vindictive, and the TWUs complicity in this has permanantly created divisions between the members. Local 514 leaders have no concept in the ideal of unionism. They feel that since they are the majority that its their right to sit back and live a comfortable existance off the suffering of other members. "I got mine" is the defining phrase of their brand of "unionism".
Wretched Wrench
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upsilon said:
Here's a simple answer: 20 years of cuts in wages and benefits. Record profits for AA and we just got farther behind. But upper management got bigger and bigger raises and other compensation. Every year.
upsilon said:
I was never bitterly opposed to AA(top management) until the election BS that occurred. Up until then I just considered them a bunch of arrogant *#^%@$ that walked all over their lapdog union. After submitting people whom they paid off life insurance policies on as part of an eligibility list to the NMB and play the innocent guy when busted; at that point not only did I become bitterly opposed but also extremely determined to face these *#^%@$ at the negotiating table with someone other than their lAApdog.
---------------------------AMFAMAN said:
Amen,
cAArpey and Co had the chance to actually change the labor/company dynamic through honoring the vote of a democratic election between the TWU and AMFA: they chose to pay off their debt to the TWU for the rigged concessions vote by keeping the dues flowing to the TWU for a few more years.
Here is a little good news for Continental employees.
"Continental Airlines said Thursday that its field service employees have rejected representation by the Transport Workers Union of America. The carrier said the union filed for an application in April with the National Mediation Board to hold an election on the issue."
Well at least now if the decide to go union they can go for a real one.
"Continental Airlines said Thursday that its field service employees have rejected representation by the Transport Workers Union of America. The carrier said the union filed for an application in April with the National Mediation Board to hold an election on the issue."
Well at least now if the decide to go union they can go for a real one.
Ken MacTiernan
Veteran
QUOTE(upsilon @ Jul 28 2005, 01:31 AM)
Thus I would like to better understand the genesis of the AMT discontent.
The discontent comes from lies. Lies that the twu is democratic and holds itself accountable.
The twu is an industrial union that also represents a craft workforce. This is not possible.
The twu does not care who performs what job function as long as that person is paying twu dues. Yes, money does make the world go around and dues enable a union to protect their membership. But when your dues do not protect your profession then that union has failed. When trying to change to a union that better protects your profession is thwarted due to lies and undemocratic processes you have continued discontent.
Thus I would like to better understand the genesis of the AMT discontent.
The discontent comes from lies. Lies that the twu is democratic and holds itself accountable.
The twu is an industrial union that also represents a craft workforce. This is not possible.
The twu does not care who performs what job function as long as that person is paying twu dues. Yes, money does make the world go around and dues enable a union to protect their membership. But when your dues do not protect your profession then that union has failed. When trying to change to a union that better protects your profession is thwarted due to lies and undemocratic processes you have continued discontent.
