2015 Fleet Service thread

[WeAAsles]

It's obvious someone doesn't care for 141 leadership but just look at the last PMUS fleet CBA, compared to the last UA CBA and its apples and oranges.

And honestly thanks to those guys who secured that new contract they just gave our guys far more legs to stand on in our talks. The wages being only one item and the improvements to their retirement that now the AA 5.5% match pales in comparison to.

It's the Station Staffing language and securing of Commuter carrier work that absolutely should now benefit our talks. Our guys are not going to hear well UAL has the ability to, or Delta has those infernal Ready Reserve numbers.

One less competitor that our guys have to worry about arguing down against.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Kev unlike the guys on the mechanics thread at least I'm glad that you have the ability to differentiate the IAM as a whole collective from a few individuals that you don't like in one District.
But the facts don't lie. The guys in that District just secured far more work at UAL then even I thought they would possibly be able to. Absolutely some of that credit needs to go to Munoz for giving it but you also have to give those negotiators some credit for being able to argue the point to secure it.
And it's the members there who ultimately are the ones to give them credit or not. And they just did in overwhelming numbers.
85% Yes
to
15% No
Obviously you agree with the extreme minority on this one.

He would also have agreed with the minority with ta2 and the minority of your awful contract. Just because a majority decides to cash grab doesnt make it wise. At United, Munoz was the last ceo to provide fair wages for his employees but it came at a cost of being fenced in 28 stations, no cargo, and not 1 single FT protection for anyone with less than 17 years. United got the exact sorta contract I would expect with only 90 days of negotiations.
Thankfully, our negotiators took a different approach and we can build upon our scope and expand it to 60 stations, keep or expand cargo/catering, and keep pt caps and reduce laa health contributions.

There is no reason for us to take concessions and get stuck with a UA contract.

regards,

 

[WeAAsles]

I want to hear now for a certainty if Parker starts to back away from the "DL or UAL plus 3%" that he's been mouthing off about for so many months? "Rumor" is that he's trying to?

No problem then Mr Parker. I want a better match to our competitors on the back end then since to me that's all that 3% made up for. And I also want to squeeze my fat butt into the bellies of some of those commuter airplanes we got.

And Delta at least for now still gives out more in PS. So does SWA and I believe UAL as well. Unless you're going to give us free medical or something I think we are being shortchanged and will continue to be at the bottom in "Total Value Compensation"?

BTW Doug or Company negotiators who read here. Enough is enough. Time to throw down a proposal on all remaining articles for our guys to look at and work on. Let's get this done.

 

[WeAAsles]

He would also have agreed with the minority with ta2 and the minority of your awful contract. Just because a majority decides to cash grab doesnt make it wise. At United, Munoz was the last ceo to provide fair wages for his employees but it came at a cost of being fenced in 28 stations, no cargo, and not 1 single FT protection for anyone with less than 17 years. United got the exact sorta contract I would expect with only 90 days of negotiations.
Thankfully, our negotiators took a different approach and we can build upon our scope and expand it to 60 stations, keep or expand cargo/catering, and keep pt caps and reduce laa health contributions.
There is no reason for us to take concessions and get stuck with a UA contract.
regards,

Oh so NOW you agree with the "Lets be just a little patient" route I've been saying all along? Jeez Sybil make up your mind.

And don't let old Sidney read what you just wrote. He might start to think you're admitting I was right all along?

regards.

 

[T5towbar]

As far as I know, temps are allowed in the contract, but we haven't had to use them, yet. I don't know about the rest of the system, but this is what I know and seen. The people that are being hired (more than 100 - PT & FT) are permanent so far, because we were cut so deep and had a shortage in manpower. Unlike ORD: IAH: & SFO, we were severely undermanned, and took the brunt of the cuts (along with DEN). For the volume of flights, we were so short, unmets were at a frequent rate; Planes were waiting to get downloaded & uploaded;  The ROC was moving people all over the place, putting out fires in every zone, it was ridiculous. ROC controllers were sending people to flights, even though they were already assigned to a live flight. So they were forced to increase staffing, and that was one of the reasons why the changes in the contract about Shift CON, and Mando was finally corrected in the contract. (Supervisors and the ROC was abusing this gray area) There may be temps hired now, but the people who graduated the past couple of months are on the staff. We were told that we may have some temp workers for the summer, but we will see. (NOTE: a lot of people couldn't pass the background and strength tests; and had trouble getting their credentials in a timely fashion due to the PANYNJ, so the hiring was slower than usual)
In EWR (my hub), we had to restore the people who were reduced to PT back to FT. (but many wanted to stay at PT because they found better jobs to supplement themselves). So a few things are happening at present: One: they brought back all the furlough people who wanted to come back.  Two: they were hiring off the street (FT & PT)  Three: anyone who is PT who wants FT for the summer can upgrade.  Four: they are upgrading Leads as well, since senior people aren't taking the job, since the way the process works. There may be enough staff, unless the vacations cut staff so much, they have the option to use Temp help for backfill. We will see how it pans out when the upcoming bid approaches. But as I see it, if it happens, we'll have to deal with them, and see how many of them can cut it. I'll talk to some people in Training to find out how many temps are coming in.

 

[WeAAsles]

It's obvious someone doesn't care for 141 leadership but just look at the last PMUS fleet CBA, compared to the last UA CBA and its apples and oranges.

Because Fleet at US did not go without a Union or a contract like the PM Continental guys did for 30 years.

Some can argue against that fact till they're blue in the face and raging but that doesn't change the facts of why they got such a chitty deal during that TA 1 vs TA 2 debacle.

And as long as some want to continue to ignore it, I'll keep swooping in to smack that dose of reality right back at them.

When people want to talk History they need to tell the entire story to understand it.

 

[WeAAsles]

As far as I know, temps are allowed in the contract, but we haven't had to use them, yet. I don't know about the rest of the system, but this is what I know and seen. The people that are being hired (more than 100 - PT & FT) are permanent so far, because we were cut so deep and had a shortage in manpower. Unlike ORD: IAH: & SFO, we were severely undermanned, and took the brunt of the cuts (along with DEN). For the volume of flights, we were so short, unmets were at a frequent rate; Planes were waiting to get downloaded & uploaded;  The ROC was moving people all over the place, putting out fires in every zone, it was ridiculous. ROC controllers were sending people to flights, even though they were already assigned to a live flight. So they were forced to increase staffing, and that was one of the reasons why the changes in the contract about Shift CON, and Mando was finally corrected in the contract. (Supervisors and the ROC was abusing this gray area) There may be temps hired now, but the people who graduated the past couple of months are on the staff. We were told that we may have some temp workers for the summer, but we will see. (NOTE: a lot of people couldn't pass the background and strength tests; and had trouble getting their credentials in a timely fashion due to the PANYNJ, so the hiring was slower than usual)
In EWR (my hub), we had to restore the people who were reduced to PT back to FT. (but many wanted to stay at PT because they found better jobs to supplement themselves). So a few things are happening at present: One, they were hiring off the street (FT & PT)  Two, anyone who is PT who wants FT for the summer can upgrade.  Three, they are upgrading Leads as well, since senior people aren't taking the job, since the way the process works. There may be enough staff, unless the vacations cut staff so much, they have the option to use Temp help for backfill. We will see how it pans out when the upcoming bid approaches. But as I see it, if it happens, we'll have to deal with them, and see how many of them can cut it. I'll talk to some people in Training to find out how many temps are coming in.

Thanks again T5. You are absolutely my go to guy for ramp UAL just as Kev is my go to guy for all things Delta.

It seems to me that at least for now you have confirmed that there probably aren't any temps in your system? Temps just don't make any sense with the time and money that needs to be expended to get them online. And you only mentioned the Port Authority as an obstacle there. Trying to go through the process of the FBI Criminal background check to gain a US Customs seal in an International Airport is even more daunting a process. Some guys can get their SIDA badge but I've heard of wait times for the customs seal reaching 2 months depending on the name of the applicant. Let's say the name of the applicant is Carlos Rodriquez. There are tons of Carlos Rodriguez's out there in the world that the FBI is going to make sure to compare them with (Why it pays to have a unique name like mine)

My buddy Danny Suarez is pulled in for secondary screening every time he reenters the US just because of his common name.

BTW T5 I haven't read it but what's your criteria for temps anyway? In our TWU contract it's 2 times per year for no more than 45 days. Again I haven't personally seen or heard of a temp worker being brought in, in the last 16 years. That's why at least I'm not too concerned about that article in our contract. 

 

[Tim Nelson]

Oh so NOW you agree with the "Lets be just a little patient" route I've been saying all along? Jeez Sybil make up your mind.
And don't let old Sidney read what you just wrote. He might start to think you're admitting I was right all along?
regards.

I dont care who is right or wrong. With a combination of favorable events, your opinion that we would be in better position now, as opposed to entering negotiations earlier and concluding them under the same timeline as the cwa, now is front and center and has merit. Looks like we are now in clean up spot. Batter up!

regards,

 

[Kev3188]

Kev unlike the guys on the mechanics thread at least I'm glad that you have the ability to differentiate the IAM as a whole collective from a few individuals that you don't like in one District.

But the facts don't lie. The guys in that District just secured far more work at UAL then even I thought they would possibly be able to. Absolutely some of that credit needs to go to Munoz for giving it but you also have to give those negotiators some credit for being able to argue the point to secure it.

And it's the members there who ultimately are the ones to give them credit or not. And they just did in overwhelming numbers.

85% Yes
to
15% No

Obviously you agree with the extreme minority on this one.

Those numbers aren't so much an endorsement of the (now) current CBA as they are an indictment of the previous one.

 

[T5towbar]

Thanks again T5. You are absolutely my go to guy for ramp UAL just as Kev is my go to guy for all things Delta.

It seems to me that at least for now you have confirmed that there probably aren't any temps in your system? Temps just don't make any sense with the time and money that needs to be expended to get them online. And you only mentioned the Port Authority as an obstacle there. Trying to go through the process of the FBI Criminal background check to gain a US Customs seal in an International Airport is even more daunting a process. Some guys can get their SIDA badge but I've heard of wait times for the customs seal reaching 2 months depending on the name of the applicant. Let's say the name of the applicant is Carlos Rodriquez. There are tons of Carlos Rodriguez's out there in the world that the FBI is going to make sure to compare them with (Why it pays to have a unique name like mine)

My buddy Danny Suarez is pulled in for secondary screening every time he reenters the US just because of his common name.

BTW T5 I haven't read it but what's your criteria for temps anyway? In our TWU contract it's 2 times per year for no more than 45 days. Again I haven't personally seen or heard of a temp worker being brought in, in the last 16 years. That's why at least I'm not too concerned about that article in our contract. 

Not sure.
This may be the first time we (in our hub) had to deal with temps. So this will be new for many of us. I guess it is for the seasonal spikes. Mainly the summer since many people will be on vacation and staffing is tight. With the new contract, the relief lines are just one line now instead of three. We used to have Outage Relief; Vacation Relief; & Mobility lines. And IIRC, Mobility & Vacation had to bid every month. Now it will be just a Relief line, with better shift time(s) and days. And won't have to bid every month.  And since we are an historically sCO hub, we won't have the option of Rotating Days Off like the traditional sUA hubs & spokes have.  Local Agreements  by location will dictate this. Temps will probably bid separate from the general population (sounds like jail..........lol!), since we all bid next month. So they probably will be integrated slowly in the system. Our new bid will be in June.  
 
BTW: I just recently got rebadged, and the process is taking much longer than normal. Not as bad as IAH, but you now have to apply a month in advance. 
Customs is taking longer than usual, and plus the Port and UA are still beefing, so things are slower than normal. That's why I know the people tat on the ramp right now (the works for this plan took place in Dec. of last year) are not temps. But people who will be coming up, may be. But you are right about the SIDA situation.

 

[WeAAsles]

I dont care who is right or wrong. With a combination of favorable events, your opinion that we would be in better position now, as opposed to entering negotiations earlier and concluding them under the same timeline as the cwa, now is front and center and has merit. Looks like we are now in clean up spot. Batter up!
regards,

Well at least as far as Fleet is concerned, that's it. SWA and UAL are now locked in and I don't believe that DL will offer any more wage improvements until the ramp and maintenance at AA lock in as well? At least I doubt it.

What I don't like obviously is this "supposed" Parker comment of him backpedaling again on the whoever plus line. First it was plus 7, then plus 3, now what?

Uh uh, sorry. No way Jose. The 3% above is fine with the addition of PS but if the intention now is just to equal the UAL rate we're back to "sub-par" once again.

Again the back end (retirement) is weak in comparison to our counterparts. Make up for that shortfall I say and we got a deal.

regards,

 

[WeAAsles]

Those numbers aren't so much an endorsement of the (now) current CBA as they are an indictment of the previous one.

Yep Kev and need I fail to mention over and over.


"Because Fleet at US did not go without a Union or a contract like the PM Continental guys did for 30 years.

Some can argue against that fact till they're blue in the face and raging but that doesn't change the facts of why they got such a chitty deal during that TA 1 vs TA 2 debacle.

And as long as some want to continue to ignore it, I'll keep swooping in to smack that dose of reality right back at them.

When people want to talk History they need to tell the entire story to understand it."


Breath the entire story my friend. Take it in deep down the lungs. It should be a cautionary tale for the people you work with at the Cult-ture.

 

[Kev3188]

I know the story, thanks.

If the Hoover dam gets dynamited, and I live down river, anything that stops any amount of water will be appealing... That doesn't change the fact that the dam was destroyed in the first place, nor does one need the back story on its construction to realize that...

 

[WeAAsles]

I know the story, thanks.
If the Hoover dam gets dynamited, and I live down river, anything that stops any amount of water will be appealing... That doesn't change the fact that the dam was destroyed in the first place, nor does one need the back story on its construction to realize that...

Ever watch the History channel on Andrew Carnegie and see the part about the Frick Dam. Eventually those coal miners rose up against Frick but in the end if you read the entire story, they lost. Frick also did just fine in life.

To me this was the opposite of that story. The miners won and Frick (Smisek) faces a possible Federal prosecution.

Oh and Kev you said in your last comment that the new contract was an endictment of the old one? Again it appears someone is falling into that age old trap on Forums of assuming they speak for a collective when they do not. I'm not a fan personally of those who think they speak for others and I certainly never make that presumption.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Because Fleet at US did not go without a Union or a contract like the PM Continental guys did for 30 years.

Some can argue against that fact till they're blue in the face and raging but that doesn't change the facts of why they got such a chitty deal during that TA 1 vs TA 2 debacle.

And as long as some want to continue to ignore it, I'll keep swooping in to smack that dose of reality right back at them.

When people want to talk History they need to tell the entire story to understand it.

Your version of things is inaccurate. Both ramp groups at United had a contract and they should have built upon it instead of taking on concessions. 
 
The CWA did a much better job of getting scope for all 80 stations that have 5 or more flights, even though the majority of its members were non contract. In fact, the ta the iam 141 just ratified at United is their second contract and has only 28 stations and gets the rotten rasberry award.
 
regards,