2015 Fleet Service thread

[Jester]

The current LAA CBA says anything over 20 mainline flights will be staffed with TWU represented Fleet Service. The company will review such activity every six months. PHX is now up to 29 LAA mainline flights a day, and is said to be going as high as 60 this summer. Will be interesting to see how the company and the TWU will handle this. Will the TWU put up a fight or roll over and play dead. The company likes to play the "seasonal flights" card, but kinda hard to do when the activity might go as high as 60 daily.

 
Kirby has made it no secret of the overall plan to eliminate A319 and A320 flying from PHX, and replace them with B738 and A321 flying. Obviously, those B738s will need to come from the AA side.  But it also bolsters my opinion PHX will eventually see sharp reductions especially to midwest cities adequately covered by either DFW or ORD as A319s covered much of that flying out of PHX as B738s would be too large.  My guess about the TWU protesting would be that the issue has been addressed as the Company made an agreement with the Association as not to contract out any station (RNO and JAX come to mind) during the negotiations with the understanding no more additional stations will be brought in-house (as IAH must be getting close).

 

[john john]

I heard a story it was either ROC or SYR where they had 2 station protected guys left. The company decided to outsource the city to a vendor. They were allowed to do it on condition that the two guys obviously kept there jobs but were given some kind of fluff gig to not work hand in hand with the vendor.

The vendors though were close enough around these guys to make their lives miserable. Probably jealousy cause they made a lot more than them and didn't have to do squat for it. They eventually retired from the pressure.

Lesson learned there. No way. If something like that ever happened the writing would have to state that it remains Association staffed until the last 2016 guy leaves and then IF the company outsources the station full opening and bumping rights are to be afforded.

And this is exactly what is going on in 30 stations under CWA/IBT contact now. CWA/IBT agreed to this same process. This process creates major problems that need to be address. And the ineffectiveness of the outsourced contactors being representative by the same union produces the ability to whipsaw the work

 

[WeAAsles]

And this is exactly what is going on in 30 stations under CWA/IBT contact now. CWA/IBT agreed to this same process. This process creates major problems that need to be address. And the ineffectiveness of the outsourced contactors being representative by the same union produces the ability to whipsaw the work

Ok John John but you have to remember we are in a very different circumstance then the agents upstairs were. The AA side was non Union until they agreed to join the CWA/IBT. The company held a nuclear option button. On the AA side they could have shut down and outsourced anything they wanted to. And the argument has been made that under the rules governing the joining of a Union that no they couldn't. That argument went up in flames when the TWU organized Frontier and the airline decided to outsource everyone. Sure they can take it to court and they may even win but how many years is it going to take? How long would people be unemployed for during that fight? 

I have a feeling since the CWA/IBT folded like a house of cards just before that turnover date, they were told something awful was coming if they didn't agree to terms? Maybe an outsourcing of every AA non hub location? They couldn't touch the US side. Who knows?

For us it's very different. We have a Union on both sides. And both sides have a current in place enforceable contract. So I just don't see the same situation coming down the pipe for us that we might see with the agents.

 

 

[WeAAsles]

Let's never forget what AA did to the non union, no contract Freight Agents during the BK. Outsourced with no options. No transfer, no bumping, no nothing. And to add severe insult to injury they were forced to train their replacements or the company would fight their unemployment insurance claim.

They couldn't even give the company a last flip of the finger as they were walked out the door or they would have gotten squat.

 

[robbedagain]

Jester. U may be correct. We went from 320 to 738 for one of the 2 sometimes 3 phx flights. I'm curious to see if they'll convert to 738 for rest of our phx flights.

 

[john john]

Ok John John but you have to remember we are in a very different circumstance then the agents upstairs were. The AA side was non Union until they agreed to join the CWA/IBT. The company held a nuclear option button. On the AA side they could have shut down and outsourced anything they wanted to. And the argument has been made that under the rules governing the joining of a Union that no they couldn't. That argument went up in flames when the TWU organized Frontier and the airline decided to outsource everyone. Sure they can take it to court and they may even win but how many years is it going to take? How long would people be unemployed for during that fight? 

I have a feeling since the CWA/IBT folded like a house of cards just before that turnover date, they were told something awful was coming if they didn't agree to terms? Maybe an outsourcing of every AA non hub location? They couldn't touch the US side. Who knows?

For us it's very different. We have a Union on both sides. And both sides have a current in place enforceable contract. So I just don't see the same situation coming down the pipe for us that we might see with the agents.

LAA had very little if nothing left to contract out already done. Miss opportunity and the agent group had more leverage than any other work group at AA/US. CWA/IBT held a nuclear option button it was called Passenger Service Systems cutover and the fence that allowed LUS to do there work. Additionally was in selection 6 negotiations. Had the government on our side because of assurance of senior management made to the government when the Justice Department sued American Airlines and US Airways Group to block the merge The new contract for LUS was concessionaire and management knew that. They had the numbers of LAA agents that wanted the money and had no concern for scope and work rules. You guys better understand something form our negotiations...For your information is wasn’t so much the ATO it was the HBR OBR that carried the YES vote

 

[john john]

del

 

[WeAAsles]

LAA had very little if nothing left to contract out already done. Miss opportunity and the agent group had more leverage than any other work group at AA/US. CWA/IBT held a nuclear option button it was called Passenger Service Systems cutover and the fence that allowed LUS to do there work. Additionally was in selection 6 negotiations. Had the government on our side because of assurance of senior management made to the government when the Justice Department sued American Airlines and US Airways Group to block the merge The new contract for LUS was concessionaire and management knew that. They had the numbers of LAA agents that wanted the money and had no concern for scope and work rules. You guys better understand something form our negotiations...For your information is wasnt so much the ATO it was the HBR OBR that carried the YES vote

Agreed in a sense. But only if both sides had had the most important item that comes from being in a Union. An "Enforceable Employment Contract"

One side did not have that and that's why they were exposed.

And they still had plenty that could be contracted out. Essentially every single one of them.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

But only if both sides had had the most important item that comes from being in a Union. An "Enforceable Employment Contract"

No such thing.
 
American Airlines sham bankruptcy proved that.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

I respectfully disagree. I have caught him saying untrue things trying to manipulate public opinion and I do not trust him. He is fast to offer his opinion on things and slow to take feedback or criticism. I know for a fact I am not the only one on this forum that feels that way.
 
You and I don't see eye to eye on a lot of issues but I can say I have never caught you lying and manipulating people. I have never seen you try to present falsehoods or opinions as fact. It may not appear so but I have respect for you. I don't for 700UW and that is not likely to change. I only say that to stress the point that this goes beyond opposing political outlook. This is a trust issue with 700UW that has developed over a long period of time.

No comment WeAAsles?

 

[WeAAsles]

No comment WeAAsles?

I think too many of us focus on what each other have to say and take it too literally and personally. Most of us on here don't know each other and as a matter of fact have never and will never meet each other.

I like 700. I talk to him on the phone often. Know how that happened? I reached out to him. We were arguing on here to the point that I felt I want to understand his position and gave him my phone number. And he called me. I've given others who knock me on here my number and they don't call. I think they're afraid that their position might not be able to survive a direct conversation or they aren't looking to maybe be convinced?

Does 700 have faults? Absolutely. And so does everyone else. That's what makes us all unique. Our personal opinions and perspectives.

One of my favorite musicians of all time killed himself the other day. Keith Emerson. Emerson Lake and Palmer. He killed himself because his own fans were saying he wasn't talented anymore and that he should quit. Essentially he was trolled to death. He couldn't take the critisism from people who had no clue who he really was and maybe how much they were hurting him. I hate those people now and I hate people like them. Pathetic wretches in life who take pleasure in putting down others.

Sometimes I deserve a little kick in the groin and so does 700. But so do you and every one of us.

Now can we get back on topic?

 

[WeAAsles]

No such thing.
 
American Airlines sham bankruptcy proved that.

Without that contract many of us could have ended up like those Frieght Agents. No chance, no choice and no options.

 

[700UW]

http://bizbeatblog.dallasnews.com/2016/03/chipotle-tweeter-who-won-labor-case-happy-with-new-job-at-american-airlines-where-there-is-no-culture-of-fear.html/
 

Fired Chipotle tweeter says union makes his new American Airlines job better

 

[ograc]

That's easy for a hub guy to say... Just remember, what ever scope is hammered out better be rock solid. My suggested has always been to include anything jet engined; that way, they can't throw a CRJ in there for 3 weeks to get under the threshold....

 
Revolutionary idea Kev. For below wing... let's base scope language on daily departures. It takes the same amount of staffing below wing to work RJ or Mainline flights. This should be the threshold, below wing, when negotiating outline station scope protection. Basing the threshold on daily departures would eliminate the company's ability to manipulate equipment type (regional jets vs. mainline) flown to stations, in an effort to outsource below wing represented work. This, is an example of the long term thinking and goals, the NC and membership should adopt. We are a separate and completely different work group than the Pilots and Flight Attendants. Why should we, below wing, be subject to the scope parameters outlined in their CBAs? Rock solid suggestion Kev3188!   
 

 

[ograc]

 
Kirby has made it no secret of the overall plan to eliminate A319 and A320 flying from PHX, and replace them with B738 and A321 flying. Obviously, those B738s will need to come from the AA side.  But it also bolsters my opinion PHX will eventually see sharp reductions especially to midwest cities adequately covered by either DFW or ORD as A319s covered much of that flying out of PHX as B738s would be too large.  My guess about the TWU protesting would be that the issue has been addressed as the Company made an agreement with the Association as not to contract out any station (RNO and JAX come to mind) during the negotiations with the understanding no more additional stations will be brought in-house (as IAH must be getting close).

This can was effectively kicked down the road to JCBA negotiations. PHX could be the next PIT. It's not just about the money up front; but protecting the existing work!