2014 Pilot Discussion

[luvthe9]

You have been right for so many years, well past the 8 year fence offer.  It is not available any more.  Angry west f/o club member, bohica.
 
New hires on the East side are Captains and wide body f/o's.
 
Whats in your bid wallet west genius?
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_JfNjHPwf8

Maybe they will learn this time. Sure seems the senior guys are getting fed up with all the damage AOL a has done to their pilot group.

 

[Claxon]

UAL CAL SLI arbitration.  Click on the play button.  Mr Freund, you are knowledgeable about the ever changing merger policy of alpa?  You were an inspiration of this depending on the convenience of your representation.
 
http://vimeo.com/user13985327/review/73752912/c4eb65ac45

 

[EastCheats]

I Hi Guys,
Talked with Courtney other night after day one of the preliminary arbitration in DC. He was on a 32 hour layover on the 75 in BWI. Took the train to DC to witness the first day. He said it went well and that Bill Wilder was very polished and professional. Said other side was unorganized and resorted to outright lies (Mitch Vasin) to tilt their side of the story. Courtney said in the beginning, the arbitrators stated that they would not be rehearing the case that was previously before the courts and previously adjudicated.
Thought I would just pass that along. As you can see, Courtney is on this email - so you can ask him particulars and maybe he could provide an update.
Happy Holidays to all of you. Look forward to seeing all of you in the new year.

Mitch and Dave saw you there too. Why do they need anybody to give them the particulars when it's right there on the transcripts?

 

[Claxon]

Mr Freund?  chutzpah?  You are getting old and lazy.  How about applying the facts of the law?  Time to move aside and let others carry on.
 
You think you can continue to walk in and give the secret hand shake and win? Who benefits in the long run, YOU?  What legacy do you want to leave behind beside your behind?
 
Lazy and non productive. 

 

[luvthe9]

Mitch and Dave saw you there too. Why do they need anybody to give them the particulars when it's right there on the transcripts?

Did not see them there. Would have liked to have had dinner with them.

 

[oscarjazz]

Mr Freund?  chutzpah?  You are getting old and lazy.  How about applying the facts of the law?  Time to move aside and let others carry on.
 
You think you can continue to walk in and give the secret hand shake and win? Who benefits in the long run, YOU?  What legacy do you want to leave behind beside your behind?
 
Lazy and non productive.

Seriously, do you guys not see the monumental butt whupping that you just took in that arbitration? Are you just trying to fool yourselves or do you really believe that you are winning the game? The funny part is that you pretty much hosed yourselves in the next arbitration and you don't even know it yet.

 

[Phoenix]

Seriously, do you guys not see the monumental butt whupping that you just took in that arbitration? Are you just trying to fool yourselves or do you really believe that you are winning the game? The funny part is that you pretty much hosed yourselves in the next arbitration and you don't even know it yet.

Bookmarked.

 

[nevergiveup]

Giving the west group representation will the clearest indication yet that the nic is indeed dead. Carry on!

 

[end_of_alpa]

Seriously, do you guys not see the monumental butt whupping that you just took in that arbitration? Are you just trying to fool yourselves or do you really believe that you are winning the game? The funny part is that you pretty much hosed yourselves in the next arbitration and you don't even know it yet.

I just LOVE this! These West guys think WE got a BUTT whopping! I've read the transcripts and from what was just said the arbitrators are NOT re litigating what the courts have already done. There is absolutely NO legal basis the Company and the APA who wish to DESTROY unions, can overrun the M-B statute, the reason coming straight from the APA themselves.

They thought we got a butt whopping from Siver even though WE WON. Looking forward to the next round of WE WON when the Arbitrator denies a seat.

 

[Metroyet]

Giving the west group representation will the clearest indication yet that the nic is indeed dead. Carry on!

LOL! Yes! exactly! It's actually GREAT NEWS for the East when they lose the arbitration!

 

[Pi brat]

Seriously, do you guys not see the monumental butt whupping that you just took in that arbitration? Are you just trying to fool yourselves or do you really believe that you are winning the game? The funny part is that you pretty much hosed yourselves in the next arbitration and you don't even know it yet.

Is the decision out?
 
I love how all you guys say how these future events will go so definitively. I wish I was that confident about the future.
 
I actually see fairness in allowing the west a committee. After all, we know it's three lists, so it's logical that three parties represent them. I even suggested that to Humel. But the problem I see with it is that it's illogical, under MB, for the APA to be able to dictate that, and USAPA doesn't agree. Having one union dictate things is what got us MB! I think USAPA laid out a pretty good case for the legal reason of the west not getting a committee, and the rest for the fairness. We'll see who rules. I won't be placing a bet.
 
So jazz, since you're on the outside looking in, give me your perspective on this. I read the transcripts. Pauley was talking about the loss of leverage against AA if we use 3 merger committees. I see that for the west, but not the east. If we use three lists, and three merger committees, what does each one bring to the table? The west has no widebodies, one base, and most of it's pilots were hired pre-2005. What will the argue that they bring to the table? That's a big part of the award, right? Then we have the argument that the arbitrators won't like what we did to Nicolau's name. They might be right there, and if it didn't keep them from doing their job they may use it. But, there are some pretty much essential tenants of SLI-no bump, no flush and no reordering of the current lists. With that, the way I see it, if the panel uses the Nic, they will have to essentially give extra credit to the west guys that don't hold the higher positions that the Nic would have given them, and leave the east guys in those positions because they do have them. So essentially, US would be getting almost double the job credit, thus harming the AA guys. I just don't see them doing that to the AA guys.
 
In some ways I see it being easier for USAPA with three merger committees. They can take and even harder stance. Go in and say "This was our list, this was our fleet at the time of the merger. We have all this attrition on our side, look at our projected attrition, look at our hiring."
 
 
Another interesting year ahead.

 

[Phoenix]

I just LOVE this! These West guys think WE got a BUTT whopping! I've read the transcripts and from what was just said the arbitrators are NOT re litigating what the courts have already done. There is absolutely NO legal basis the Company and the APA who wish to DESTROY unions, can overrun the M-B statute, the reason coming straight from the APA themselves.
They thought we got a butt whopping from Siver even though WE WON. Looking forward to the next round of WE WON when the Arbitrator denies a seat.

I used to give credit to Marty for being a smart businessman... Now I think he should show a little mercy and quit "taking candy from children."

 

[Pi brat]

I thought the most interesting things in the whole transcript were Vasin admitting that the west was offered the Nic at Wye River and Freund stating that the Nic was "a bargaining position." I think that if the west gets it's committee we will see those quotes again.

 

[luvthe9]

Seriously, do you guys not see the monumental butt whupping that you just took in that arbitration? Are you just trying to fool yourselves or do you really believe that you are winning the game? The funny part is that you pretty much hosed yourselves in the next arbitration and you don't even know it yet.

If it's the same kind of "butt whupping" they have given us in the past I'm looking forward to it!

 

[luvthe9]

I thought the most interesting things in the whole transcript were Vasin admitting that the west was offered the Nic at Wye River and Freund stating that the Nic was "a bargaining position." I think that if the west gets it's committee we will see those quotes again.

"Yes, the East offered the NIC. They just wanted to protect their retirement attrition, which stalled by the change in Age-60. Looking back, that offer must look like a home run to any West pilot right now."


Maybe Spiinthis or Eastcheats can tell us why they did not want the NIC.