2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[WeAAsles]

Wow, pilots signing blank checks...I see no way that won't end badly for them.
 
From what I've read it looks like management negotiated directly with the membership which cut the union off at the knees as everyone clamored for their raises and dismissed concerns about language.
 
That should be a gigantic red flag for every Fleet Service member.READ EVERYTHING in any contract proposal, don't get to compensation and stop reading.

Since we're not going to be under Section 6 negotiations and already have a contract that runs through 2018 I think the company has the right to plead their case directly to the membership? They did that with the APFA members and in the Kirby letter to the pilots as well.

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

Will they not have the opportunity to vote on it?

Oh they will, I'm sure enough will see the 23% raise and leap right into the open grave of unwritten contract language.

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

Since we're not going to be under Section 6 negotiations and already have a contract that runs through 2018 I think the company has the right to plead their case directly to the membership? They did that with the APFA members and in the Kirby letter to the pilots as well.

Why pay union dues then? 

 

[WeAAsles]

Will they not have the opportunity to vote on it?

Yes they are going to conduct a vote once the language is finalized. But according to the full APA update had the company accepted a solution that was offered to the company on the issue they talked about the APA BOD would have accepted the terms without a vote by the members because they deemed that the JCBA constituted an amendment to the current contract.

The company denied that proposal due to it's cost though and a vote will be held by the members.

 

[Rogallo]

Wait a minute, I thought this thread was about Fleet service!
 
 
Here ya go...   http://www.airlineforums.com/topic/56571-2014-pilot-discussion/?p=1141515

 

[WeAAsles]

Why pay union dues then? 

You pay Union dues for far more reasons then any issues like this. This JCBA is a very unique situation that is different then our contract going to term and becoming amendable under RLA guidelines. 

If you noticed the APFA when they received back the $81 Million improvement they didn't send it back to the members but accepted the offer. Same thing with the 4%.

Would you need or want to have a vote if any offer that comes to us is only improvements on our current 2 contracts?

 

[WeAAsles]

Wait a minute, I thought this thread was about Fleet service!!
 
 
Here ya go...    http://www.airlineforums.com/topic/56571-2014-pilot-discussion/

Since we're also going to be negotiating for improvements with the company you don't think it's wise to talk about the issue of another Unionized group going through the process before we begin ours?

 

[Rogallo]

Nice spin!

 

[WeAAsles]

Nice spin!

Not spin at all. If we had the same Arbitration backstop like the APA and APFA do then watching what the other two groups are doing is an invaluable lesson. What the pilots do in negotiations ultimately affects all of us.

 

[Rogallo]

Since we're also going to be negotiating for improvements with the company you don't think it's wise to talk about the issue of another Unionized group going through the process before we begin ours?

 
Absolutely. I'm curious to see what their craft union gets for them!

 

[WeAAsles]

 
Absolutely. I'm curious to see what their craft union gets for them!

Still want to interject your specific agenda anywhere and everywhere on the AA forums I see.

Curious did you fill out that members petition to separate your class and craft to purely licensed mechanics?

 

[Tim Nelson]

Why was a TA brought back in the first place that cost thousands of jobs and what would have happened had the membership voted no?

Since it obviously passed he wasn't the only one who voted for it. I just think on here at least since he comments he might be the easiest one to point fingers at?

And being in PHX unfortunately yea he might? We'll see?

 
Freedom was one of about 600 from PHX who voted for that contract. It's very old news and I'm surprised it continues to be talked about as some make Freedom out as a criminal for voting for that contract. But, for historical purposes, consider the following:
 
Only 4 stations voted against it.  TPA, ORD, CLT, PHL.   It passed by over 60%, so Freedom was in the strong  majority. Many stations voted at the airport, just not those on the east.
 
PHX voted something like 600-15.   America West voted for it by about 90%.
 
The issues were about a $5 pay raise for America West members.  They lost a lot of scope that the TWU did have in their contract.
And they got additional benefits.  It wasn't unreasonable for an America West employee to vote for it.   All the east stations voted for it as well, other than 4.  Because they went from $15 to contractual increases to over $20.  Got rid of a seniority clause that was despicable. Scope stayed about the same. Lost profit sharing.    Regarding profit sharing,  the IAM agreed with the company that the America West should participate in the East profit sharing plan, so it was essentially portioned to lesser amounts.  That was done even with separate agreements as well.
 

 

 

[Rogallo]

Still want to interject your specific agenda anywhere and everywhere on the AA forums I see.

Curious did you fill out that members petition to separate your class and craft to purely licensed mechanics?

 
HELL YES!    You got a problem with that?

 

[WeAAsles]

 
Freedom was one of about 600 from PHX who voted for that contract. It's very old news and I'm surprised it continues to be talked about as some make Freedom out as a criminal for voting for that contract. But, for historical purposes, consider the following:
 
Only 4 stations voted against it.  TPA, ORD, CLT, PHL.   It passed by over 60%, so Freedom was in the strong  majority. Many stations voted at the airport, just not those on the east.
 
PHX voted something like 600-15.   America West voted for it by about 90%.
 
The issues were about a $5 pay raise for America West members.  They lost a lot of scope that the TWU did have in their contract.
And they got additional benefits.  It wasn't unreasonable for an America West employee to vote for it.   All the east stations voted for it as well, other than 4.  Because they went from $15 to contractual increases to over $20.  Got rid of a seniority clause that was despicable. Scope stayed about the same. Lost profit sharing.    Regarding profit sharing,  the IAM agreed with the company that the America West should participate in the East profit sharing plan, so it was essentially portioned to lesser amounts.  That was done even with separate agreements as well.
 
 

Thanks Tim. It seems like the problem that most people had with Freedom on these boards was his lack of humility in pushing for it to pass.

More than likely and to be honest if I was in their position I would have made the same choice to vote yes. How to convey that choice without it becoming contentious against those who disagree is in the art of the wording.

 

[WeAAsles]

 
HELL YES!    You got a problem with that?

Absolutely not. I think it's a great idea and even put up a suggestion to petition the White House as well. I'm not sure how others might feel about it but it seems very reasonable IMO.