2014 Fleet Service Discussion

[NYer]

I called in (Unsafe/Unauthorized absence) one year back in DFW on Christmas. We had an ice and snow storm that morning and my car wouldn't even come out of the driveway without sliding all over. I didn't call in sick. I was honest and didn't get paid. When I saw the women in lost time she didn't give me a hard time, probably because I didn't call in sick?
 
The next time that I called in sick though the lost time CSM said "Oh you called in sick on Christmas" It was none of his business in the first place but I told him "Roy I'm not a Christian" and his eyes lit up and he didn't know where to go from there.
 
I just don't think it's right for me to judge people. --You're doing a lot of judging on these pages.
 
Are many of them probably scamming, yes. Can any of us really be sure though? You say they're scamming, "sure," but then claim we can't be sure? Which is it? Can't have both. They either are or they're not, no straddling.

 

[NYer]

Meanwhile others are forced to stay at work and can't enjoy their families for at least part of the day. It affects others when this sort of thing manifests itself.

Of course it does and I'm not saying it's right but I am saying who are we to judge who's being honest from who is not? --If we don't and we don't protect the ones that are doing the right thing then the problem gets worse and it forces the airline into cutting vacation spots during holidays and forcing those that do come to work and might plans of their own.
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It also makes much harder to try and get more sick days in negotiations when the airline can easily show the spike in sick days on very prominent days of the year.

Did those spikes in sick calls exist when we were getting paid Double time and a half? That's why companies pay a premium on those specific days. Yes it is a form of bribery but the reality is that people will always pick their families over the companies wants or needs especially when it come to specific days. --People will not always do that, the majority come to work and fulfill their responsibilities.
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We should all consider our fellow co-workers and their families when making these types of decisions. Everyone wants to be home during these days, but it isn't fair that by some doing so, others are negatively affected.
 
Consider the next guy.

This one you got me on. I wish we lived in that world but more and more at least IMO it seems to be slipping away? Maybe I'm getting old and cynical? I try at least. --You don't seem to try since you're OK with letting people do what they want. It's pretty easy to make decision on these boards when there is no consequence to your opinion. In the real world, you need to have a conviction and move towards what's best for the majority.

 

[NYer]

Wow, pilots signing blank checks...I see no way that won't end badly for them.
 
From what I've read it looks like management negotiated directly with the membership which cut the union off at the knees as everyone clamored for their raises and dismissed concerns about language.
 
That should be a gigantic red flag for every Fleet Service member.READ EVERYTHING in any contract proposal, don't get to compensation and stop reading.

 
Did you not read this part?
 
"Pending the board’s agreement with the company’s final contractual language, it will electronically send a vote on the contract to member pilots, it said."

 

[NYer]

Oh they will, I'm sure enough will see the 23% raise and leap right into the open grave of unwritten contract language.

 
 As opposed to going into arbitration, not get the raises and still have the same or worse contract language.

 

[WeAAsles]

I called in (Unsafe/Unauthorized absence) one year back in DFW on Christmas. We had an ice and snow storm that morning and my car wouldn't even come out of the driveway without sliding all over. I didn't call in sick. I was honest and didn't get paid. When I saw the women in lost time she didn't give me a hard time, probably because I didn't call in sick?
 
The next time that I called in sick though the lost time CSM said "Oh you called in sick on Christmas" It was none of his business in the first place but I told him "Roy I'm not a Christian" and his eyes lit up and he didn't know where to go from there.
 
I just don't think it's right for me to judge people. --You're doing a lot of judging on these pages.
 
Are many of them probably scamming, yes. Can any of us really be sure though? You say they're scamming, "sure," but then claim we can't be sure? Which is it? Can't have both. They either are or they're not, no straddling.

An individual or posters who as Bob has said hide behind a fake name on a message board are far easier to make a judgment call on then a collective group. The word "probably" was used because the evidence points more in one direction then the other, but it's not a condemnation of all.

 

[WeAAsles]

Meanwhile others are forced to stay at work and can't enjoy their families for at least part of the day. It affects others when this sort of thing manifests itself.Of course it does and I'm not saying it's right but I am saying who are we to judge who's being honest from who is not? --If we don't and we don't protect the ones that are doing the right thing then the problem gets worse and it forces the airline into cutting vacation spots during holidays and forcing those that do come to work and might plans of their own.
 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It also makes much harder to try and get more sick days in negotiations when the airline can easily show the spike in sick days on very prominent days of the year.Did those spikes in sick calls exist when we were getting paid Double time and a half? That's why companies pay a premium on those specific days. Yes it is a form of bribery but the reality is that people will always pick their families over the companies wants or needs especially when it come to specific days. --People will not always do that, the majority come to work and fulfill their responsibilities.
  ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
We should all consider our fellow co-workers and their families when making these types of decisions. Everyone wants to be home during these days, but it isn't fair that by some doing so, others are negatively affected.
 
Consider the next guy.This one you got me on. I wish we lived in that world but more and more at least IMO it seems to be slipping away? Maybe I'm getting old and cynical? I try at least. --You don't seem to try since you're OK with letting people do what they want. It's pretty easy to make decision on these boards when there is no consequence to your opinion. In the real world, you need to have a conviction and move towards what's best for the majority.

I'm certainly not ok with everyone doing whatever they want. I'm not an anarchist. But what would be your solution then? Should we go the route that Freedom suggested and agree with a company doctrine of whipping all the mules because a few aren't getting the job done?

Or should there be leadership among the ranks to explain to them that their actions have consequences. How's that worked out so far? We should never give up trying to explain the things you said but we also have to face the realities in front of us that have history.

 

[NYer]

An individual or posters who as Bob has said hide behind a fake name on a message board are far easier to make a judgment call on then a collective group. The word "probably" was used because the evidence points more in one direction then the other, but it's not a condemnation of all.

 
Straddle that line.

 

[WeAAsles]

Straddle that line.

Keep seeing the world as either black or white.

 

[NYer]

I'm certainly not ok with everyone doing whatever they want. I'm not an anarchist. But what would be your solution then? Should we go the route that Freedom suggested and agree with a company doctrine of whipping all the mules because a few aren't getting the job done?

Or should there be leadership among the ranks to explain to them that their actions have consequences. How's that worked out so far? We should never give up trying to explain the things you said but we also have to face the realities in front of us that have history.

 
Whipping all the mules is exactly what they do, but to be flippant to the situation is not really a solution. It's quite possibly worse, because it allows for extreme measures to be taken by the airline in order to address the issue. The first task in finding a resolution is to admit there is an issue. It is an issue that affects the airline but much, much more importantly is that it negatively affects those that remain.
 
The elixir that best fixes these issues is a robust and consistent flow of information that points out the consequences of those actions in real time as well as how it can affect gaining more sick days in future negotiations if they're in fact being used to gain an extra day off rather than cover what it's intended for.

 

[NYer]

Keep seeing the world as either black or white.

 
It goes well with right or wrong.

 

[Rogallo]

My way or the highway!

 

[WeAAsles]

It goes well with right or wrong.

Too simple a philosophy for life if you ask me my friend. But time usually does answer that question.

 

[MetalMover]

Still want to interject your specific agenda anywhere and everywhere on the AA forums I see.

Curious did you fill out that members petition to separate your class and craft to purely licensed mechanics?

I wonder where the pilots would be today if they went with the TWU!

 

[WeAAsles]

Whipping all the mules is exactly what they do, but to be flippant to the situation is not really a solution. It's quite possibly worse, because it allows for extreme measures to be taken by the airline in order to address the issue. The first task in finding a resolution is to admit there is an issue. It is an issue that affects the airline but much, much more importantly is that it negatively affects those that remain.
 
The elixir that best fixes these issues is a robust and consistent flow of information that points out the consequences of those actions in real time as well as how it can affect gaining more sick days in future negotiations if they're in fact being used to gain an extra day off rather than cover what it's intended for.

I like the solution that's in the UAL contract where sick time can be used to supplement retiree medical. Obviously $25 per day upon retirement was never a good incentive for members to protect their bank. They also seem to think they're invincible and nothing is ever going to happen to them that the need for that time could become imperative.

Words aren't always the solution since people tune them out more often than not. Showing a tangible value is a more effective solution most times.

 

[NYer]

I like the solution that's in the UAL contract where sick time can be used to supplement retiree medical. Obviously $25 per day upon retirement was never a good incentive for members to protect their bank. They also seem to think they're invincible and nothing is ever going to happen to them that the need for that time could become imperative.

Words aren't always the solution since people tune them out more often than not. Showing a tangible value is a more effective solution most times.

 
That was a proposal in the 2011 Tentative Agreement and most people on these pages were vehemently opposed to it.