2014 Pilot Discussion

[PullUp]

... the mini Arb is over and I don't think it will come as a surprise to anyone the USTUPID got it's ass kicked again. The APA takes their DFR very seriously and will do whatever it takes to honor it. The East idiots will sue but it's a lost cause and they know it. ..I've said all along, and I'll reaffirm: The East will be lucky if all they get out of this is the Nic. award. Damn Lucky.

The APA and AAL said what they had to say to avoid litigation in the future. If they didn't support the westies, the army of Leotards would have most definitely designed $600 underwear to fund another legal morass.
As far as the Nic is concerned, it is dead and buried. Long gone to the big shredder in the sky. This arb panel has no bearing on the outcome of the SLI, only the question of whether or not to allow the malcontent westies into the room for the next negotiation. Personally, I think it'd be a good idea - because your group would have to sue yourselves for the resulting seniority list outcome.

 

[EastCheats]

The APA and AAL said what they had to say to avoid litigation in the future. If they didn't support the westies, the army of Leotards would have most definitely designed $600 underwear to fund another legal morass.
As far as the Nic is concerned, it is dead and buried. Long gone to the big shredder in the sky. This arb panel has no bearing on the outcome of the SLI, only the question of whether or not to allow the malcontent westies into the room for the next negotiation. Personally, I think it'd be a good idea - because your group would have to sue yourselves for the resulting seniority list outcome.

Do you smoke dope? That's some wacky Szymanski you have in your joint. Read the transcripts and learn.

 

[Phoenix]

The panel will answer the question, do nothing more, and accept nothing more contrary to the request of the Freund Five Page Fantasy.

It's a new day.

 

[end_of_alpa]

They got Jess the witness. Freund thanks you. AWEsome job!

ARBITRATOR JAVITS: All three lists. I guess the gravamen of the questions is are you then putting yourself in the place of Nicolau, are you the new Nicolau because you are proposing a list which may not reflect Nicolau's list?

THE WITNESS: No, certainly not. We are trying to establish the seniority integration for this new process for US Airways pilots. And American has nothing to do with that.

ARBITRATOR JAVITS: But in that process, you are presenting lists which combine both East and West pilots and American.

THE WITNESS: And American pilots, yes.

ARBITRATOR JAVITS: And American pilots. And, therefore, you're making a proposal, which may be different than what Nicolau had in mind and issued back in '07.

THE WITNESS: Yes. It would be a different order.

ARBITRATOR JAVITS: It would be different.

THE WITNESS: It would be different.

ARBITRATOR JAVITS: All right.

MR. FREUND: Thank you. You ask much better questions than I do. (NO $H!T Sherlock)

ARBITRATOR JAVITS: I was confused.

This line of questioning is NOT a "JAB" at Pauley.  You take it out of context.  The NEW LIST that gets proposed by the USAPA MERGER COMMITTEE is a combined list of ALL THREE.  THAT IS NOT THE NICOLAU LIST.
 
Wilder knocked it OUT OF THE PARK in closing anyway.  It IS a statutory issue under M-B and that IS the legal point of it.
 
 




[SIZE=12pt]ARBITRATOR JAVITS: Thank you very much, Mr. Wilder, also for that excellent closing. [/SIZE]




 
Javits then said in closing:
 
"And, you know, I mean, having heard this, I can't help but make the comment that, given all the rancor and animus over the last years of my -- I, for one, on this Board am very pleased that this opportunity has arisen with American Airlines, that we're in a new day, and that it provides such a great opportunity for everybody going ahead to do the right thing and to move ahead constructively.




[SIZE=12pt]The industry has too much of a history of booms followed by busts and disasters to let go of this great opportunity."[/SIZE]

 

[end_of_alpa]

Oh, I LOVE THIS PART:  The APA AND THE COMPANY IN UNISON TO INTERFERE IN THE M-B PROCESS:
 
APA's position and the Company's is that our argument was expressly reserved in 8.a, as was their argument.




[SIZE=12pt]But all arguments are going to go to this Panel to determine whether there ought or ought not [/SIZE]to be a West Pilot Committee in this arbitration. Let me say one thing before I get to my --








[SIZE=12pt]kind of down toward the bottom.
This isn't a popularity contest. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]APA is taking a very unpopular position against a very large and powerful employee group. It's unpopular, but the duty of fair representation is a fidicuiary obligation, and we take that obligation seriously. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]We're not here to win votes. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]In fact, anybody who takes the position of APA is going to be politically -- it's taking on a very large and powerful group merging into APA. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Okay. So let's just be clear. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]We're not doing this to be popular with American pilots or to win the votes of the East pilots."[/SIZE]
 
The union has taken a side....with the Company who already LOST their case in court.
 
[SIZE=12pt]HEY APA AND COMPANY THIS IS A STATUTORY DETERMINATION, NOT A LOVE FEST BETWEEN YOU TWO.[/SIZE]




 
One way or the other this is going to Federal District court because if USAPA doesn't prevail the MOU supersedes it the the Protocol agreement confirms it.  Remember, USAPA learned it from the Best of the West.

 

[Metroyet]

Oh, I LOVE THIS PART:  The APA AND THE COMPANY IN UNISON TO INTERFERE IN THE M-B PROCESS:
 
APA's position and the Company's is that our argument was expressly reserved in 8.a, as was their argument.[/size]




But all arguments are going to go to this Panel to determine whether there ought or ought not [/size]to be a West Pilot Committee in this arbitration. Let me say one thing before I get to my --[/size]








kind of down toward the bottom.
This isn't a popularity contest. [/size]
APA is taking a very unpopular position against a very large and powerful employee group. It's unpopular, but the duty of fair representation is a fidicuiary obligation, and we take that obligation seriously. [/size]
We're not here to win votes. [/size]
In fact, anybody who takes the position of APA is going to be politically -- it's taking on a very large and powerful group merging into APA. [/size]
Okay. So let's just be clear. [/size]
We're not doing this to be popular with American pilots or to win the votes of the East pilots."[/size]
 
The union has taken a side....with the Company who already LOST their case in court.
 
HEY APA AND COMPANY THIS IS A STATUTORY DETERMINATION, NOT A LOVE FEST BETWEEN YOU TWO.[/size]




 
One way or the other this is going to Federal District court because if USAPA doesn't prevail the MOU supersedes it the the Protocol agreement confirms it.  Remember, USAPA learned it from the Best of the West.

You're not going to prevail here, the next arb, or in court. The union can do whatever the hell they want and there's nothing an unincorporated no -profit LLC in NC can do about it.

 

[luvthe9]

USTUPID didn't play the delay card that they always do this time. Someone is slipping up! Anyway, the mini Arb is over and I don't think it will come as a surprise to anyone the USTUPID got it's ass kicked again. The APA takes their DFR very seriously and will do whatever it takes to honor it. The East idiots will sue but it's a lost cause and they know it. Wilder looking like a lying scumbag time and again...just like his clients. I've said all along, and I'll reaffirm:
 
The East will be lucky if all they get out of this is the Nic. award. Damn Lucky.

Kevin Horner was seen at the venue. Did you see him Metroyet?

 

[Phoenix]

You're not going to prevail here, the next arb, or in court. The union can do whatever the hell they want and there's nothing an unincorporated no -profit LLC in NC can do about it.

What do you want to bet the Congressional Statute will be ignored and the status quo will be rearranged?

How about we bet our ties!

 

[EastCheats]

This line of questioning is NOT a "JAB" at Pauley.  You take it out of context.  The NEW LIST that gets proposed by the USAPA MERGER COMMITTEE is a combined list of ALL THREE.  THAT IS NOT THE NICOLAU LIST.
 
Wilder knocked it OUT OF THE PARK in closing anyway.  It IS a statutory issue under M-B and that IS the legal point of it.
 
 




ARBITRATOR JAVITS: Thank you very much, Mr. Wilder, also for that excellent closing. [/size]




 
Javits then said in closing:
 
"And, you know, I mean, having heard this, I can't help but make the comment that, given all the rancor and animus over the last years of my -- I, for one, on this Board am very pleased that this opportunity has arisen with American Airlines, that we're in a new day, and that it provides such a great opportunity for everybody going ahead to do the right thing and to move ahead constructively.[/size]




The industry has too much of a history of booms followed by busts and disasters to let go of this great opportunity."[/size]

You're also smoking Szymanski if you think the West Merger Committee would allow USAPA LLC to dictate the list the West presents if it is granted a seat.

The excellent closing (comment as a courtesy) continues....

15 ARBITRATOR JAVITS: Thank you very much,
17 Mr. Wilder, also for that excellent closing.
18 The Board will consider all the arguments
19 and plenitude of submissions in evidence given to
20 it.

The conversation continues.

Then counsel for the APA has a correction for Mr Wilder, USAPA LLC..

2 MR. JAMES: Mr. Wilder misstated the TWA
3 set of facts that gave rise to McCaskill-Bond.
4 APA negotiated
5 ARBITRATOR JAVITSs Very succinctly.
6 MR. JAMES: APA negotiated with the
7 Company a seniority regime when ALPA was still the
8 certified representative of the TWA pilots.
9 McCaskill-Bond said. You can't do that
10 anymore. You have to arbitrate against them, or,
11 once you take over, you're going to have to set up
12 separate committees.
13 It was not post certification.
14 ARBITRATOR JAVITS: All right. Very good,
15 Thank you.
16 MR. WILDER: And I'm sorry


Out of the Park? Foul ball is more like it.

 

[EastCheats]

What do you want to bet the Congressional Statute will be ignored and the status quo will be rearranged?
How about we bet our ties!

Would you like one with Purple Turtles?

 

[end_of_alpa]

You're not going to prevail here, the next arb, or in court. The union can do whatever the hell they want and there's nothing an unincorporated no -profit LLC in NC can do about it.

We'll see.

 

[luvthe9]

You're not going to prevail here, the next arb, or in court. The union can do whatever the hell they want and there's nothing an unincorporated no -profit LLC in NC can do about it.

Funny, had a fairly senior westie ride jumpseat with us and we're talking about this arbitration he some others don't think it is a good idea to go it alone, even he realized the west brings nothing to this merge and it might end hurting them. Will know within 30 days.

 

[Claxon]

You're not going to prevail here, the next arb, or in court. The union can do whatever the hell they want and there's nothing an unincorporated no -profit LLC in NC can do about it.

You have been right for so many years, well past the 8 year fence offer.  It is not available any more.  Angry west f/o club member, bohica.
 
New hires on the East side are Captains and wide body f/o's.
 
Whats in your bid wallet west genius?
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_JfNjHPwf8

 

[luvthe9]

I Hi Guys,

Talked with Courtney other night after day one of the preliminary arbitration in DC. He was on a 32 hour layover on the 75 in BWI. Took the train to DC to witness the first day. He said it went well and that Bill Wilder was very polished and professional. Said other side was unorganized and resorted to outright lies (Mitch Vasin) to tilt their side of the story. Courtney said in the beginning, the arbitrators stated that they would not be rehearing the case that was previously before the courts and previously adjudicated.

Thought I would just pass that along. As you can see, Courtney is on this email - so you can ask him particulars and maybe he could provide an update.

Happy Holidays to all of you. Look forward to seeing all of you in the new year.

 

[Claxon]

Mr Freund what kind of cards are you putting on the table?
 
"chutzpah"  This term is not in the legal dictionary. 
 
"Bob gave us a legal Latin phase, and I'm
13 going to use my favorite legal Latin phrase. That's
14 chutzpah in the extreme to take that position.
15 All the West Pilots are seeking here --
16 ARBITRATOR JAVITS: Is that Latin?
17 MR. FREUND: Yeah, I think so."
 
Mr Freund
 
 
 
"You know, chutzpah may not be a strong
22 enough word to describe the conduct of the East
Page 106
1 pilots during the course of the past seven years,
2 but it's the best I can do under these
3 circumstances...."
 
Mr Freund