fifidriver
Senior
- Nov 30, 2011
- 339
- 455
Just flew ship 660 the other day... looked an an awful lot like a fish-eye lens in breaker location T22. Call me paranoid, but be careful out there. KTGSD!AWE Dog said:
2014 Pilot Discussion
- Thread starter Falcon
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nycbusdriver
Veteran
How did that scrap of duct tape get stuck to that circuit breaker?fifidriver said:
fifidriver
Senior
- Nov 30, 2011
- 339
- 455
I was going to tap it with the tip of the crash axe... but I didn't know how to explain the video. Ended up just hanging a piece of printer paper over it. You guys have anything addressing video in your old contract?
luvthe9
Veteran
- Aug 30, 2002
- 9,464
- 14,119
fifidriver said:
All mutual nyaahs-nyaahs aside here fifi. If you're speaking in earnest here; I'd suggest all operating that ship (at least) take pics of what you found to be suspicious for the enhanced awareness of all concerned. "Knowledge is Power" after all...
AWE Dog said:
Fully agreed...unfortunately, but it now "is what it is". I can at least somewhat understand the APA people kinda' just hoping for the best, being largely trapped by their bankruptcy and all, but far too few involved anywhere around apparently chose to examine the established history of this management.
- May 8, 2007
- 3,146
- 3,236
You mean like the "bar bathroom tissue MOU" was the end all, be all of bankruptcy era contracts? The current Company offer for the final JCBA now makes LOA 93 look like the 10 Commandments and Bible of contract negotiations all in one! But hey, "we're now one big happy family and we have labor peace"....at least according to the APA and the AMFA!Phoenix said:
Phoenix
Veteran
- Apr 16, 2003
- 8,584
- 7,430
It does not escape my notice that the APA negotiated the MOU that now has us negotiating with a choice between 1) perpetual negotiations, or 2) arbitration. Obviously "negotiating" with such a choice between two evils is a dreadful predicament...end_of_alpa said:
So the APA got tricked once already by DUI... Now that they know the trick, will they agree to never ending grievances and negotiations, i.e. a death of 1,000 cuts by unknown LOAs, or will they take the medicine all at once in a single arbitration to force DUI back to a section 6 negotiation sooner?
Do they double down now on the same bad bet, or do they cut their losses and start anew?
I am afraid too many will drool over the rates and miss the whole trick of 1,000 LOAs.
- May 8, 2007
- 3,146
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I believe your "misplaced" by who was tricked. I "believe" both you and I tried to tell these guys to "rethink" their approach to the MOU. In fact, I think that we should have been better prepared with what was to come when Hummel and Bradford got into power. Did they have a plan with the negotiating committee to prepare for what may come in the future and get our powder dry? Remember that?Phoenix said:
NO! They restaffed the negotiating committee, Hummel made the famous $40 million dollar deal with James. James sold it to the APA BOD and THEY bit. The Rank and File voted to give us "sh!t sandwich" II and the rest, as they say, is HISTORY.
I don't blame DP and Kirby this time. Blame the guy sitting next to you in the cockpit.
You CAN'T double down on something you don't have! Arbitration has been and will ALWAYS BE BAD FOR THE GROUP.
ALWAYS. WE LOSE OPERATING CAPITAL AND WE LOSE THE COHESIVE UNION FIGHT. LOSE IT IF WE BACK AWAY FROM THIS!
But whether you like it or not, the offer NOW on the table is MUCH BETTER than arbitration. We fight another day.
Oh, and it isn't a 1,000 LOA's. It may be 1,000 grievances, but not LOA's.
You guys really need to think this through.
- May 8, 2007
- 3,146
- 3,236
Here is what they are starting to say already. If you guys think that DP and Kirby are HATED by the world you would be remiss. They are planning on skewering the FA's and the Pilots over this STUPID stuff in the press. Why is it that EVERYONE ELSE IN THE WORLD UNDERSTANDS IT.......EXCEPT PILOTS AND FLIGHT ATTENDANTS????
Even the CAVEMAN PRESS get's it!
What’s the matter with the unions at American Airlines?
Once again, a work group has defied logic and voted against its economic interests. Now it’s up to the grown-ups to find a face-saving way out.
This month, the flight attendants union narrowly rejected a contract that paid more than they were promised just a year ago. It failed by 16 votes, with over 16,000 cast.
Pilots are on the clock next, facing a similar dilemma, except that their big payday would come a year earlier than scheduled. Cha-ching!
If choosing more money sooner seems like a no-brainer, consider the alternative: Rejecting the contracts sends the process to binding arbitration and then the maximum payouts are lower.
Flight attendants stand to get $82 million less per year, assuming they prevail in arbitration.
“Like many of you, I was devastated by the results” of the vote, Laura Glading, president of the Association of Professional Flight Attendants, wrote to members on Nov. 9.
Embarrassed would be an appropriate word, too. The vote threatens to undermine the esprit de corps that’s revived the airline in the last year, often with flight attendants leading the way. And it’s just dumb to choose less money over more.
Leaders aren’t entirely blameless. At the flight attendants union and American, they’ve touted industry-leading contracts, because the offer matches Delta’s high rates, plus 4 percent. But American contracts don’t have profit-sharing, and when that’s included, other packages are higher.
That’s still not a valid reason to turn down the deal.
“Our team squeezed every possible dollar from this company, compromised only when absolutely necessary, and achieved the best contract possible,” the union’s joint negotiating committee told flight attendants the week of the vote.
Glading and others went to great lengths to dispel rumors that a “no” vote would lead to a better offer. Or that it would push American to add profit-sharing. Or that some employees would get to keep their old health insurance.
Protocol outlined
This isn’t a typical negotiation that can cover anything and drag on for years. The talks focused on blending the separate contracts for American and U.S. Airways, and doing it quickly.
A specific protocol, including arbitration, was spelled out in bankruptcy court and the merger.
It aims to prevent a drawn-out labor drama that could damage the combined airline, as happened with United and Continental.
The new American is already producing record profits, but the heavy lift of integration is still ahead. The company will need workers to give it their all, just as they were crucial in reinventing the airline since its bankruptcy.
American doesn’t have to offer anything extra to the unions. They all signed deals last year that set the parameters for combining the contracts. American employees are on target to match the combined pay rates at Delta and United.
But American can afford to pay more, and it wants employees to be happy. So it stepped up some valuable sweeteners, matching Delta’s leading pay rates and then some.
What American doesn’t match is profit-sharing. That was a mistake, in my view, because it helps align workers, management and shareholders. But American’s unions traded profit-sharing for guaranteed raises last year. And while American CEO Doug Parker isn’t a fan of profit-sharing, he ultimately deferred to employees.
There’s some buyer’s remorse because the airline industry is generating so much money. Delta’s profit-sharing awards last year were worth over 8 percent of workers’ pay, and profits are running much higher in 2014.
Pilots’ vote
American pilots proposed that their contracts match Delta, plus 10 percent — to make up for the lack of profit-sharing.
American has already offered Delta rates, plus more. The gap between labor and management doesn’t seem that far, and the same arbitration backstop is in place.
If pilots don’t reach an agreement, they’ll get less in arbitration. There’s always a chance they could make up the difference in future years, but stuff happens. (MY NOTES: A HELLUVA LOT LESS)
American pilots turned down an industry-leading contract in the months before 9/11, and that kind of opportunity never re-emerged again. In 2006, pilots rejected a proposal for a flight between Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport and Beijing, because they were angry over management bonuses.
That China route, a boon for the company and pilots, wasn’t proposed again for eight years.
In 2010, the Transport Workers Union negotiated a contract with lump-sum bonuses and pay raises. Two-thirds of union leaders supported it, and the mechanics rejected the deal by almost 2-to-1. A little more than a year later, American filed for bankruptcy.
In union votes, as in general elections, emotions can override logic and personal economics. Flight attendants need a do-over and then need to do it right. And pilots should spare everyone the drama.
Take the money and make American the airline it should be.
Follow Mitchell Schnurman on Twitter at @mitchschnurman.
http://www.dallasnews.com/business/columnists/mitchell-schnurman/20141117-schnurman-union-trouble-at-american-airlines-say-it-aint-so.ece
Even the CAVEMAN PRESS get's it!
What’s the matter with the unions at American Airlines?
Once again, a work group has defied logic and voted against its economic interests. Now it’s up to the grown-ups to find a face-saving way out.
This month, the flight attendants union narrowly rejected a contract that paid more than they were promised just a year ago. It failed by 16 votes, with over 16,000 cast.
Pilots are on the clock next, facing a similar dilemma, except that their big payday would come a year earlier than scheduled. Cha-ching!
If choosing more money sooner seems like a no-brainer, consider the alternative: Rejecting the contracts sends the process to binding arbitration and then the maximum payouts are lower.
Flight attendants stand to get $82 million less per year, assuming they prevail in arbitration.
“Like many of you, I was devastated by the results” of the vote, Laura Glading, president of the Association of Professional Flight Attendants, wrote to members on Nov. 9.
Embarrassed would be an appropriate word, too. The vote threatens to undermine the esprit de corps that’s revived the airline in the last year, often with flight attendants leading the way. And it’s just dumb to choose less money over more.
Leaders aren’t entirely blameless. At the flight attendants union and American, they’ve touted industry-leading contracts, because the offer matches Delta’s high rates, plus 4 percent. But American contracts don’t have profit-sharing, and when that’s included, other packages are higher.
That’s still not a valid reason to turn down the deal.
“Our team squeezed every possible dollar from this company, compromised only when absolutely necessary, and achieved the best contract possible,” the union’s joint negotiating committee told flight attendants the week of the vote.
Glading and others went to great lengths to dispel rumors that a “no” vote would lead to a better offer. Or that it would push American to add profit-sharing. Or that some employees would get to keep their old health insurance.
Protocol outlined
This isn’t a typical negotiation that can cover anything and drag on for years. The talks focused on blending the separate contracts for American and U.S. Airways, and doing it quickly.
A specific protocol, including arbitration, was spelled out in bankruptcy court and the merger.
It aims to prevent a drawn-out labor drama that could damage the combined airline, as happened with United and Continental.
The new American is already producing record profits, but the heavy lift of integration is still ahead. The company will need workers to give it their all, just as they were crucial in reinventing the airline since its bankruptcy.
American doesn’t have to offer anything extra to the unions. They all signed deals last year that set the parameters for combining the contracts. American employees are on target to match the combined pay rates at Delta and United.
But American can afford to pay more, and it wants employees to be happy. So it stepped up some valuable sweeteners, matching Delta’s leading pay rates and then some.
What American doesn’t match is profit-sharing. That was a mistake, in my view, because it helps align workers, management and shareholders. But American’s unions traded profit-sharing for guaranteed raises last year. And while American CEO Doug Parker isn’t a fan of profit-sharing, he ultimately deferred to employees.
There’s some buyer’s remorse because the airline industry is generating so much money. Delta’s profit-sharing awards last year were worth over 8 percent of workers’ pay, and profits are running much higher in 2014.
Pilots’ vote
American pilots proposed that their contracts match Delta, plus 10 percent — to make up for the lack of profit-sharing.
American has already offered Delta rates, plus more. The gap between labor and management doesn’t seem that far, and the same arbitration backstop is in place.
If pilots don’t reach an agreement, they’ll get less in arbitration. There’s always a chance they could make up the difference in future years, but stuff happens. (MY NOTES: A HELLUVA LOT LESS)
American pilots turned down an industry-leading contract in the months before 9/11, and that kind of opportunity never re-emerged again. In 2006, pilots rejected a proposal for a flight between Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport and Beijing, because they were angry over management bonuses.
That China route, a boon for the company and pilots, wasn’t proposed again for eight years.
In 2010, the Transport Workers Union negotiated a contract with lump-sum bonuses and pay raises. Two-thirds of union leaders supported it, and the mechanics rejected the deal by almost 2-to-1. A little more than a year later, American filed for bankruptcy.
In union votes, as in general elections, emotions can override logic and personal economics. Flight attendants need a do-over and then need to do it right. And pilots should spare everyone the drama.
Take the money and make American the airline it should be.
Follow Mitchell Schnurman on Twitter at @mitchschnurman.
http://www.dallasnews.com/business/columnists/mitchell-schnurman/20141117-schnurman-union-trouble-at-american-airlines-say-it-aint-so.ece
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