2014 Pilot Discussion

[A320 Driver]

The art of negotiation is knowing when you have the best deal possible and running with it. We lose when we stop negotiating. I wish we had the same language in our arbitration backstop that the flight attendants have.

 

[EastUS1]

The art of negotiation is knowing when you have the best deal possible and running with it. We lose when we stop negotiating. I wish we had the same language in our arbitration backstop that the flight attendants have.

 
I understand the company's just rejected the latest counter proposal...and a whole lot of folks should have considered just what was actually IN, or NOT in the MOU before voting for it, just sayin'....

 

[Phoenix]

 
I understand the company's just rejected the latest counter proposal...and a whole lot of folks should have considered just what was actually IN, or NOT in the MOU before voting for it, just sayin'....

 
 
Shouldn't we get another Kirby propaganda letter out to the media and everyone before the company responds?  We received a bunch of glossy propaganda before we voted on the MOU..  It seems to be an effective strategy to shout out the anchors.. You anchor, you.

 

[A320 Driver]

Looking back at what we should or should not have voted on means nothing. All that matters is what we have today. Senior management has done a poor job of managing expectations. "Industry leading" is inclusive of pay rates but not exclusive of everything else. If their intention was to increase the pay and nothing else, that should have been the message from the get go. Now we have the pilot group and the Flight Attendants in uproar because we feel cheated based on the message that was being delivered by management. On top of that they hire Jerry Glass! There is no place good this can end up without a total capitulation by management, and that is not going to happen. If they don't walk away from negotiations today, I will be surprised. Where it goes from here is anybody's guess. Hail Marys, all or nothings and lines in the sand are not negotiations. Give and take, pulling each other across the table by the tie (figuratively) is negotiation. That is something neither side has done in a long time.

 

[Phoenix]

Looking back at what we should or should not have voted on means nothing. All that matters is what we have today. Senior management has done a poor job of managing expectations. "Industry leading" is inclusive of pay rates but not exclusive of everything else. If their intention was to increase the pay and nothing else, that should have been the message from the get go. Now we have the pilot group and the Flight Attendants in uproar because we feel cheated based on the message that was being delivered by management. On top of that they hire Jerry Glass! There is no place good this can end up without a total capitulation by management, and that is not going to happen. If they don't walk away from negotiations today, I will be surprised. Where it goes from here is anybody's guess. Hail Marys, all or nothings and lines in the sand are not negotiations. Give and take, pulling each other across the table by the tie (figuratively) is negotiation. That is something neither side has done in a long time.

 
 
Management has $4B dollars.. just this year and a contract through 2019.  Who expects management to begin negotiating until at least 2022, if then.    Its always the same.  The new boss wants to take more than the old boss... How many decades have we wanted to be wrong? 

 

[nycbusdriver]

Yesterday's DFW Crew News is out.  Parker basically conceded that he thinks we will settle the JCBA in arbitration due to the fact that the APA counter last week showed how far apart the union and management is.

 

[john john]

Was there a 2nd extension granted

 

[A320 Driver]

All quiet on the APA front. This looked too much like section 6 negotiations. It's not. There are some things that need fixing in work rules and I think we have a reasonable chance of doing that in arbitration. What we can't fix are the pay rates. Management needs to take all references to scope off the table until the pilot group has a chance to process if this is good for us or not. If it's not section 6, it has no place in the discussion IMO.

 

[AWE Dog]

I'm feeling better about my MOU No vote everyday. Now I know why Glass is around, Delta's Anderson is right on the money. My quess is the paper work for the the injunction is ready to go.

 

[luvthe9]

I'm feeling better about my MOU No vote everyday. Now I know why Glass is around, Delta's Anderson is right on the money. My quess is the paper work for the the injunction is ready to go.

"In fact, in a recent corporate meeting at Delta called "Velvet 360" Delta's CEO Richard Anderson stated:

American is trying to mimic everything we do, but frankly they will never catch up to us, because they don't invest in their People."


Wonder if the APA is going to break out the yellow lanyards soon.

 

[AWE Dog]

Welcome to the New American West. The largest Low Cost carrier in the world. You can make a lot of money with disgruntled employees.

 

[end_of_alpa]

I'm feeling better about my MOU No vote everyday. Now I know why Glass is around, Delta's Anderson is right on the money. My quess is the paper work for the the injunction is ready to go.

You got that right!  It's NOT section 6 and the only thing they are willing to give us is....%17 now and %3 on the first of the year.  OH NO, that APA (and the West) want to have a job action NOW!  They should try it.

 

[Phoenix]

All quiet on the APA front. This looked too much like section 6 negotiations. It's not. There are some things that need fixing in work rules and I think we have a reasonable chance of doing that in arbitration. What we can't fix are the pay rates. Management needs to take all references to scope off the table until the pilot group has a chance to process if this is good for us or not. If it's not section 6, it has no place in the discussion IMO.

I think the whole "section 6" thing is what ever you want to argue... Fact is the company negotiated a hundred net-concessionary LOAs and MOUs since the last section 6 negotiations.

IMHO, everything is up for negotiation during negotiations, and we should realize it cuts both ways.

 

[luvthe9]

Kind of funny all the guys that voted for the MOU are starting to complain, I'm sure they will vote for the first thing that comes along. And you wonder why we can't get a Delta contract.

 

[Phoenix]

Kind of funny all the guys that voted for the MOU are starting to complain, I'm sure they will vote for the first thing that comes along. And you wonder why we can't get a Delta contract.

The "JCBA" proposal is a disaster, not for what it offers but for the million holes it leaves empty... A disaster because of the million terms that are not even included much less defined.

If we accept this bar napkin "JCBA" we will be immediately cast into grievance hell and will be forced to negotiate 1,000 LOAs just to hope one day to win permission to enter purgatory... And with 1,000 LOAs we end up with 1,000 more opportunities to concede something to get something.

This lipstick pig smells and has a thousand piglets she is about to birth. Don't buy it.