2014 Pilot Discussion

[Claxon]

You mean like the "bar bathroom tissue MOU" was the end all, be all of bankruptcy era contracts?  The current Company offer for the final JCBA now makes LOA 93 look like the 10 Commandments and Bible of contract negotiations all in one!  But hey, "we're now one big happy family and we have labor peace"....at least according to the APA and the AMFA!

Interesting to watch the APA discover their "use" is conditional. Parker used the APA to get to the throne of the largest airline in the world.
The APA negotiated without any input of LUS pilots. Surprise APA pilots! Parker is the same Parker. He is using Glass. Ask the LUS pilots how it goes down in negotiations with him.
Airline investors know labor is muzzled at AAL. They are green lighting this company because they like how Parker is handling things. Money talks, and Parker isn't t going to share.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Interesting to watch the APA discover their "use" is conditional. Parker used the APA to get to the throne of the largest airline in the world.
The APA negotiated without any input of LUS pilots. Surprise APA pilots! Parker is the same Parker. He is using Glass. Ask the LUS pilots how it goes down in negotiations with him.
Airline investors know labor is muzzled at AAL. They are green lighting this company because they like how Parker is handling things. Money talks, and Parker isn't t going to share.

The AMFA had one third vote for it, one third against and one third didn't care one way or the other.  So much for unity there and they GOT WHAT THEY DESERVED.  Don't be surprised if this new and improved APA doesn't do the same thing.
 
I see the Westicles and Dan and CHIP are all of a sudden silent on the NEW STUPIDITY OF UNION PLANNING they so eloquently complained of with USAPA!
 
Yeah, we got unity....just like the New AMFA!  We'll show em!

 

[nevergiveup]

Profit sharing should give the worker an incentive to try a little harder. It should be for all employees top to bottom. I hope AA is not blind to this concept. Delta may be like Macy's, but AA will settle for Big Lots! Please pass the pork rinds! 

 

[end_of_alpa]

Profit sharing should give the worker an incentive to try a little harder. It should be for all employees top to bottom. I hope AA is not blind to this concept. Delta may be like Macy's, but AA will settle for Big Lots! Please pass the pork rinds! 

It should but not always.  And in this case in arbitration you will not get it anyway.  And Parker believes that profit sharing is not a company philosophy.  When in Rome, and He who hath the Gold kind of thing.  
 
I don't think they are and I understand the reasoning behind it.  But there is only one way to find out and only time will tell.

 

[nycbusdriver]

 
But whether you like it or not, the offer NOW on the table is MUCH BETTER than arbitration.  We fight another day.
 

 
I agree.  Years ago it was "take the concessions and live to fight another day."  We did.  Now, it's "take the money and live to fight another day."
 
We are incredulous that the flight attendants walked away from a better deal than they could possibly get in arbitration, even after APFA (reportedly) made great efforts to educate their membership that the vote was a take-it-or-leave-it deal, and not a Section 6 type of negotiation.  
 
I flew back from Europe on the day after the vote closed, and incredibly, the "no" voters on the crew thought either: 1) now the company will give us something better since we "showed them" our resolve, or 2) the arbitration will use the rejected company offer as a starting point.  I told them to talk to their union and find out for themselves that they had shot themselves in the foot.
 
Now, the APA is in the hotseat, but the APA Board is thinking like to no-voter flight attendants.  We get the knee-jerk RJ response that it will mean loss of mainline jobs.  Prove it.  Show us the analysis.  Although I hate to agree with Kirby, he does have a point that every extra seat in an RJ brings that many more customers into our hubs where they stand a good chance of making a mainline flight necessary in place of what had been RJ routes.  It makes some sense.
 
Parker has publicly stated that the flight attendant offer is still on the table if the APFA wants to send it out for another vote.  I think that's a generous offer that he has no obligation to make.  (I hate it that I am defending him, but he could certainly save money by telling the APFA to go pound sand and "see you in arbitration.")
 
The APA arbitration will be far less lucrative than the company offer, and,  since the deadline has passed, we are treading on thin ice because tomorrow morning Parker might just say: "Sorry guys, the timeline dictates arbitration now and that is where we are going.  You get what you negotiate, and arbitration is it."
 
With retirement attrition at historical highs, and the barriers to new entrant pilots also at historical highs, I cannot imagine how giving up on scope here can possibly endanger APA jobs any time soon.  The numbers just don't add up the way they did a decade and a half ago when RJs were a real threat.  Let's think 2014, and not 1999.
 
 

The AMFA had one third vote for it, one third against and one third didn't care one way or the other.  So much for unity there and they GOT WHAT THEY DESERVED.  Don't be surprised if this new and improved APA doesn't do the same thing.
 
 

 
I think you mean APFA.   AMFA is a mechanics union, I think.

 

[PullUp]

Take the money. Figger it out: Group 2 goes from 181 to 211 = 30/hr --> 15K/yr for blockholder. PLUS the additional 16% of the raise for the DC fund.
I'd rather have it sooner than later: The time value of $$.
The pilots still have bargaining chips in the near term. Kirby still wants the RJ seats - which is worth a lot. Make him pay.
Cheers.

 

[Phoenix]

Pick your poison. The red pill or the blue pill...

 

[PullUp]

Pick your poison. The red pill or the blue pill...

I want the one that cures my financial headaches.

 

[nevergiveup]

I want the one that cures my financial headaches.

Apply to Delta!

 

[Phoenix]

I want the one that cures my financial headaches.

That would be the blue pill. You will never leave the Matrix.

 

[A320 Driver]

It may all be a moot point. The company took any form of scope relief off the table, but the APA BOD has painted themselves into a corner and vowed to not consider anything but the Delta contract in whole.
The CLT rep was particularly pointed in his statement regarding the negotiations. Once again anger rules the day. Anger and reason don't make good bedfellows. I was confidant for a short time until the BODs started drawing lines in the sand. Were these section 6 negotiations, I could understand. Many members of the pilot group seem misinformed as to what we are actually negotiating here.
At least they are still negotiating.

 

[traderjake]

I see the Westicles and Dan and CHIP are all of a sudden silent on the NEW STUPIDITY OF UNION PLANNING they so eloquently complained of with USAPA!
 
Yeah, we got unity....just like the New AMFA!  We'll show em!

 
No need to post on an anonymous web board now that we have a union that has a forum and isn't afraid of dissent.

 

[nevergiveup]

 
No need to post on an anonymous web board now that we have a union that has a forum and isn't afraid of dissent.

First time ever!

 

[algflyr]

Well there is a CLT/PHL APA townhall meeting via teleconference tonight. We can hear directly from the reps what they are thinking... 7pm East coast time...

 

[algflyr]

On another note. I've been hearing that the possible February permanent bid could be a large one. If past practice hold true, we could get the notice of a Feb. bid this Friday...