2014 Pilot Discussion

[Phoenix]

YEP.  Looks like 2019+.

 
 
reading the tea leaves it appears there is a chance the offer will be Delta rates.. minus the Delta profit sharing, minus the Delta work rules, minus the Delta vacation, minus the Delta QOL issues, minus the Delta hotels, minus the Delta grievance quantity, minus the Delta LTD... and of course with the new industry leading capitulation on scope.   I expect a majority will break down the doors like a crowd outside Walmart on a "black friday" blue light special sale... give away anything for pay rates.  anything.  
 
But I am an optimist.  It might be worse.   

 

[nycbusdriver]

 
 
reading the tea leaves it appears there is a chance the offer will be Delta rates.. minus the Delta profit sharing, minus the Delta work rules, minus the Delta vacation, minus the Delta QOL issues, minus the Delta hotels, minus the Delta grievance quantity, minus the Delta LTD... and of course with the new industry leading capitulation on scope.   I expect a majority will break down the doors like a crowd outside Walmart on a "black friday" blue light special sale... give away anything for pay rates.  anything.  
 
But I am an optimist.  It might be worse.   

 
You're probably right.  To management, "industry leading" simply means the hourly rate is a nickel more than the competitions'.

 

[EastUS1]

 
You're probably right.  To management, "industry leading" simply means the hourly rate is a nickel more than the competitions'.

 
A whole nickel? Let neither of us go too-much-giddy with such unduly grand assumptions sir.

 

[end_of_alpa]

 
A whole nickel? Let neither of us go too-much-giddy with such unduly grand assumptions sir.

 

 
You're probably right.  To management, "industry leading" simply means the hourly rate is a nickel more than the competitions'.

Yeah, Padre....I really think you've gone way overboard!  A "whole" nickel.  To the APA that would be "the best we could get". 
 
Sound familiar???

 

[flyer63]

reading the tea leaves it appears there is a chance the offer will be Delta rates.. minus the Delta profit sharing, minus the Delta work rules, minus the Delta vacation, minus the Delta QOL issues, minus the Delta hotels, minus the Delta grievance quantity, minus the Delta LTD... and of course with the new industry leading capitulation on scope.   I expect a majority will break down the doors like a crowd outside Walmart on a "black friday" blue light special sale... give away anything for pay rates.  anything.  
 
But I am an optimist.  It might be worse.

You are 100 percent correct... the rate will be 100 percent.. but nothing else.

 

[end_of_alpa]

After watching the DP video in Chicago, here is the summation for ALL employee contracts in the future:
1.  No profit sharing.
2. All will have the SAME medical plans and/or options.
3. Arbitration clauses in Labor contracts that LIMIT company liability for the companies future.
 
You can say what you want but the business plan for American will be the industry standard in the coming years for the labor groups in the future.
 
The company is waiting for today's outcome of the FA vote for their CBA.  It pays better than industry and the ONLY downside risk for the company is arbitration....which is in their favor because the arbitration CBA ask from the company is industry only.  Guess who wins that one?
 
It will be the same for the pilots.  Coming later this month from the company will probably be an improvement with a scope adjustment as we all know. If the APA "stonewalls" on the scope (which it seems likely they will) expect arbitration in 2016 on the industry comparison pay rate adjustment and we wait until 2019+ for a new contract.
 
I understand the forum over at APA is already discussing job actions.  That is not a WISE idea to even be discussing it there.  I guess the APA hasn't learned their lesson from the last $50 million dollar job action from several years ago.

 

[PullUp]

 
You're probably right.  To management, "industry leading" simply means the hourly rate is a nickel more than the competitions'.

You're thinking from the wrong perspective. To manangement, 'industry leading' means getting the job done for 20% less than everybody else!
Cheers.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Instead of job actions, I wonder if changing unions (or the threat) would have any traction. Not advocating a return to ALPA ( although the big three belonging to the same union might have its advantages), but using the representational election here in 2008 allowed us to at least hold at bay certain agreements made by the former bargaining agent.

The cost neutral provision of the MOU is obviously leverage enjoyed by the company. Would a change of unions divest them of some of that leverage?

We considered the IBT at one time. Change the name to American Pilots Association to save money on signage, or just pick a name.

IDK, just thinking out loud. (I move my lips when I type).

'84

 

[Al Legheny]

It looks like the Flight Attendant vote just FAILED by a very narrow margin. I am not sure what this means....maybe the honeymoon is over??

 

[flyer63]

Yeah heard 16 votes...not sure if true

 

[end_of_alpa]

Yeah heard 16 votes...not sure if true

True.
 
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com
 
What's funny is the theory of thirds is at work here and the rank and file union apathy goes deep into the merged flight attendant union.  Portends of things to come with the pilots.
 
1/3 for, 1/3 against, 1/3 didn't care.

 

[end_of_alpa]

True.
 
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com
 
What's funny is the theory of thirds is at work here and the rank and file union apathy goes deep into the merged flight attendant union.  Portends of things to come with the pilots.
 
1/3 for, 1/3 against, 1/3 didn't care.

Oh and here is MORE:
 
"APFA said  8,180 voted yes and 8,196 voted no. AA and US combined have more than 24,000 flight attendants. Of those, 20,986 were eligible to vote, meaning that 78 percent of the eligible voters cast ballots."
 
Over THREE THOUSAND flight attendants are not even members.  Over FOUR THOUSAND flight attendants didn't vote.  Three plus four equals over SEVEN THOUSAND most likely doesn't give a SH!!!T about unionism.  So much for unity if they try ANY job action.  Going to arbitration where they will get less than offered.  We'll see how long the APFA honeymoon will last.

 

[end_of_alpa]

https://apfa.org/images/TA/jnc-ta-letter.pdf
 
 

[SIZE=10pt]"Eight months ago, our Joint Negotiating Committee came together with the difficult task of blending two contracts, two distinct cultures, and two very different operations. Comprised of seven LAA and seven LUS Flight Atten[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]- [/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]dants, our team forged a strong unity as we worked through our differences. Together, we reached an agreement which will benefit all 24,500 Flight Attendants at the New American Airlines. [/SIZE]
 
For five intense months of negotiations, our JNC confronted management against a backstop of binding arbitration. Our team squeezed every possible dollar from this company, compromised only when absolutely necessary, and achieved the best contract possible. We have no doubt that ratification of this Tentative Agreement is the best course for Flight Attendants at the New American Airlines.
 
[SIZE=10pt]Rumors abound that there will be more negotiations or that by voting No we can miraculously retain profit sharing or somehow force the Company to abandon the implementation of a single medical plan for 120,000 employees at the New American. As the Flight Attendants directly involved in bargaining we can tell you this is not the case. Voting No will simply result in at least $82 million annually in cuts to the T/A. The arbitration will focus on whether the cuts should come out of areas such as wages, vacation days or 401(k) contributions. That is a predicament we strongly urge you to avoid. [/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=10pt]This is an industry-leading agreement in pay provisions and work rules. We are not asking that you agree with every sin[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt]gle provision of this T/A. Rather, we ask you to focus on the key question we had to constantly ask ourselves during these negotiations: whether this Tentative Agreement is better than the alternative of binding arbitration? Here we believe there is no room for doubt. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]We urge you to take time to vote and make your voices heard. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]In Unity,
Your Joint Negotiating Committee [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Laura Glading - (JFK) Roger Holmin - (PHL) Lenny Aurigemma - (JFK) Vicki Balistreri - (PHL) Margaret Barnes -(DFW) Alin Boswell - (CLT) [/SIZE]
[SIZE=10pt]Neil Fernandez - (IMA) David Hone - (PHX)
Paul Hartshorn Jr. - (PHL) Julie Hedrick - (SFO) Rick Knuth - (CLT) George Price - (CLT) Randy Trautman - (IMA) Michael Truan - (DFW) [/SIZE]




 
 

Looks like the Flight Attendants got "pilot fever"!!!

 

[flyer63]

Yeah heard 16 votes...not sure if true

 

[cynic]

Oh and here is MORE:
 
"APFA said  8,180 voted yes and 8,196 voted no. AA and US combined have more than 24,000 flight attendants. Of those, 20,986 were eligible to vote, meaning that 78 percent of the eligible voters cast ballots."
 
Over THREE THOUSAND flight attendants are not even members.  Over FOUR THOUSAND flight attendants didn't vote.  Three plus four equals over SEVEN THOUSAND most likely doesn't give a SH!!!T about unionism.  So much for unity if they try ANY job action.  Going to arbitration where they will get less than offered.  We'll see how long the APFA honeymoon will last.

Many of the former TWA FAs refuse to pay dues after being screwed by the APFA. That does not mean that they don't give a ****.