2014 Pilot Discussion

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 Fellow pilots
[SIZE=x-small]This past week your CLT reps (Bob Frear & Ron Nelson) attended the five-day fall quarter APA BOD meeting in Dallas. This is the time of year that all existing committees issue their final reports and are then reconstituted. Two days are allowed for vetting and voting by the BOD of new committee members. The BOD left many committees intact. In the case of the Negotiating committee, longtime APA Chairman Dave Brown remained on the committee, but not as Chairman.  With the conclusion of JCBA and or mediation talks, Dave will be winding down his involvement with the committee for some much deserved rest. We would like to thank Dave for his dedication and commitment for the betterment of all American pilots. From the LUS side, Dean Colello and Ken Holmes were permanently added to the committee structure.[/SIZE][SIZE=x-small] PHX Captain Dave Schoppaul was appointed Chairman of the Strike Preparedness Committee as the only name submitted. Since then it has come to the BOD attention that Captain Schoppaul was the producer of the infamous "Goat video" that so poorly characterized the formation of USAPA.  It is our view that such a divisive individual could not garner the unity needed to be on the Strike Preparedness Committee let alone lead it.  We will have a motion to reconsider at the next meeting. If you would like to be considered for this appointment please let us know.   [/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=x-small]PBGC H.R. 2697[/SIZE]
[SIZE=x-small]As you are well aware, USAPA has waged war against the PBGC on two fronts, legislatively and in the courts. In the case of the legislative effort, the former GAC (Government Affairs Committee) has been working tirelessly to modify the payout for P4 pilots. As a reminder, the company paid insurance premiums to the PBGC assuming that pilots would retire at age 60 (which was the mandatory retirement at the time). At the termination of the LUS Defined Pension plan, the PBGC paid out all P3 pilots (53 & over) at the time of the termination, the maximum benefit at age 60, regardless if they continued to work till age 65. Many of these pilots had less vested time towards retirement then those on the property today. P3 pilots were generally paid from the forfeited assets of the plan. Even though the company paid the higher insurance premiums for age 60 retirements, the P4 pilots were annuitized under the ERISA age 65-retirement age. Not only did pilots covered under the former DB plan lose a huge amount of vested money, the ERISA statute further imposed an additional 35% loss in promised retirement income.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=x-small]Randy Dopp from the LUS GAC and your CLT/PHL reps, spent a great deal of time explaining to the APA BOD and the National Officers, the importance of continuing this legislative effort and the need for a robust lobbying effort and consultants. The APA Board expressed support for the concept and were understanding and sympathetic to our plight.  They do recognize the importance of representing the issues of all of their constituents and have pledged to work towards finding a way to continue this effort in a way that makes sense for the organization and its newest members. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=x-small]We believe that the APA board and National Officers realize the importance of this legislation to the former LUS pilots, and to the over 14,000 pilots who were adversely affected by the termination of their DB plans.  Rest assured, we will continue to pursue any and all pathways to correct this gross injustice. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=x-small]We are disappointed to report that the PHX representatives strongly lobbied the board against funding the legislative effort. [/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=x-small]NICOLAI AWARD[/SIZE]
[SIZE=x-small]We find it interesting that in the opinion of APA’s General Counsel, the “Nicolai award” is NOT legally binding.[/SIZE]
 
 
[SIZE=x-small]FATIGUE[/SIZE]
[SIZE=x-small]We have recently received calls from pilots regarding the use of “Fatigue”. A valid fatigue call is one that is incurred as a result of being at work, i.e. noisy hotel, fire alarm, onerous trip pairing resulting in fatigue, etc. Being at home prior to a trip and not sleeping because of a new baby, puppy, domestic argument is not a payable fatigue event. On another note, failure to voluntarily extend a FAR117 duty period is also NOT a “fatigue event”. The company (at least on the LAA) side has (erroneously) inserted “fatigue’ in a pilots history file for failure to extend. Remember, you do not have to extend your duty period by even (1) minute. While on the subject of fatigue, some bases are scheduled to a cap of 95 hours in November and December.  Combine the extra on duty reserve days, currently required for east pilots, and trip pairings with multiple 5 leg days, one could cleary understand why fatigue calls could increase. Remember by law you must be rested for your duty assignment. [/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=x-small]JUMPSEAT[/SIZE]
[SIZE=x-small]The hot topic of late (besides JCBA & Scope) is the Jumpseat. We continue to discuss this with the new APA BOD at every opportunity. Right now the general view of the BOD is to wait until the JCBA process is over and then make a decision. Understand, as often as we hear from LUS pilots regarding this issue, the LAA reps hear from LAA pilots on the other side of the fence. Our human and professional tendency is to be wary and resistant to change. When you meet a LAA pilot, please be professional, patient and informative as to why you would like to continue with the best J/S program in the industry. Go out of your way and offer to demonstrate to your fellow American pilot just how to call and reserve the J/S.  A professional, courteous educational campaign will go a long way in helping to keep this outstanding program.  Rest assured that it is one of our top priorities.[/SIZE]  
 
[SIZE=x-small]UPCOMING CLT-PHL TOWN HALL MEETING: November 12, 2014 @ 6:30pm ET[/SIZE]
[SIZE=x-small]During our time in Dallas the week of November 10th, your CLT & PHL reps will conduct a joint town hall meeting. These teleconference meetings allow a very large contingent of our pilots to participate and ask questions of your reps. Please plan to be on the call if you can. More details will be provided in an upcoming special update.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=x-small]THE NEW APA BOARD OF DIRECTORS[/SIZE]
[SIZE=x-small]In the month of October, we have attended three BOD meetings and numerous training classes.  We are extremely encouraged by the professionalism and working relationship that the combined board has with each other.  We are included and relied upon as if we have been there for years.  It is the first time in our careers that we have seen such a unified body representing the pilots of an airline.  Although there are differences here and there, one thing we are in total agreement on is our place within the industry.  We are resolute and up to the challenge if the company decides to place us somewhere other than our rightful place with our peers.   [/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=x-small]PAYBANK GRIEVANCE[/SIZE]
[SIZE=x-small]As many of you know, the company erroneously computed the paybank values for pilots that incurred these values under the retrospective pay period. In our opinion, any hours that were credited to a pilot’s bank during the retrospective calculation, needed to be computed at the higher pay rates. This issue was heard in an Appeal Hearing two weeks ago and was not awarded by Captain Hale. As a note, the Flight Ops Leadership assured your CLT reps that this was due our pilots on several occasions. In our view this is a clear indication of the limited authority AA legal has extended to them.  The issue will now be scheduled for pre-arbitration conference.  Considering the extremely low cost of this item, it is amazing to us how quickly this company will sacrifice integrity and goodwill for a nickel! How do you like the new corporate (legal controlled) culture so far?[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=x-small]EAST RESERVE GREIVANCE[/SIZE]
[SIZE=x-small] APA President Keith Wilson is preparing a Presidential Grievance on behalf of the LUS – East pilots.  The fact that we continually have to fight our way through virtually every part of the MOU and MTA is worrisome and telling of what to expect going forward.  We take no pride in putting out our joint CLT, DCA, & PHL “The Great East Reserve Screw Job” base blast, but the company left us no other choice. [/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=x-small]NOVEMBER 12-14, 2014 Special BOD Meeting[/SIZE]
[SIZE=x-small]We will be in special session the week of November 10th to await the company's [/SIZE][SIZE=x-small]compensation proposal. In a recent note to investors, JP Morgan's airline analyst Jamie Baker estimated that the recent drop in fuel prices, "should afford AAL roughly $1.5 billion of reduced expenses in 2015". This is in addition to the just beginning $1.0 billion in net synergies and the recently disclosed increment positive of $400 million associated with hub re-banking and variable scheduling. In total that's nearly $3.0 billion in positives to the New AA. As President Keith Wilson stated in his recent update, “It’s our turn”.  In our view, it would be a monumental miscalculation on management’s side to force a contract on the 15,000 pilots of the New American Airlines through interest arbitration with terms imposed upon us in bankruptcy. The future success of this airline is squarely in the hands of Messer’s Parker & Kirby.[/SIZE]
 
 
[SIZE=x-small]Fly smart and Fly safe[/SIZE]
[SIZE=x-small]Captain Bob Frear[/SIZE]
[SIZE=x-small]Captain Ron Nelson[/SIZE]
[SIZE=x-small]CLT-REPS@alliedpilots.org [/SIZE]
 
 


 
 
end_of_alpa said:
 
CLTLdrship_BlastHeader.jpg


 
 
 
 Fellow pilots
[SIZE=x-small]This past week your CLT reps (Bob Frear & Ron Nelson) attended the five-day fall quarter APA BOD meeting in Dallas. This is the time of year that all existing committees issue their final reports and are then reconstituted. Two days are allowed for vetting and voting by the BOD of new committee members. The BOD left many committees intact. In the case of the Negotiating committee, longtime APA Chairman Dave Brown remained on the committee, but not as Chairman.  With the conclusion of JCBA and or mediation talks, Dave will be winding down his involvement with the committee for some much deserved rest. We would like to thank Dave for his dedication and commitment for the betterment of all American pilots. From the LUS side, Dean Colello and Ken Holmes were permanently added to the committee structure.[/SIZE][SIZE=x-small] PHX Captain Dave Schoppaul was appointed Chairman of the Strike Preparedness Committee as the only name submitted. Since then it has come to the BOD attention that Captain Schoppaul was the producer of the infamous "Goat video" that so poorly characterized the formation of USAPA.  It is our view that such a divisive individual could not garner the unity needed to be on the Strike Preparedness Committee let alone lead it.  We will have a motion to reconsider at the next meeting. If you would like to be considered for this appointment please let us know.   [/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=x-small]PBGC H.R. 2697[/SIZE]
[SIZE=x-small]As you are well aware, USAPA has waged war against the PBGC on two fronts, legislatively and in the courts. In the case of the legislative effort, the former GAC (Government Affairs Committee) has been working tirelessly to modify the payout for P4 pilots. As a reminder, the company paid insurance premiums to the PBGC assuming that pilots would retire at age 60 (which was the mandatory retirement at the time). At the termination of the LUS Defined Pension plan, the PBGC paid out all P3 pilots (53 & over) at the time of the termination, the maximum benefit at age 60, regardless if they continued to work till age 65. Many of these pilots had less vested time towards retirement then those on the property today. P3 pilots were generally paid from the forfeited assets of the plan. Even though the company paid the higher insurance premiums for age 60 retirements, the P4 pilots were annuitized under the ERISA age 65-retirement age. Not only did pilots covered under the former DB plan lose a huge amount of vested money, the ERISA statute further imposed an additional 35% loss in promised retirement income.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=x-small]Randy Dopp from the LUS GAC and your CLT/PHL reps, spent a great deal of time explaining to the APA BOD and the National Officers, the importance of continuing this legislative effort and the need for a robust lobbying effort and consultants. The APA Board expressed support for the concept and were understanding and sympathetic to our plight.  They do recognize the importance of representing the issues of all of their constituents and have pledged to work towards finding a way to continue this effort in a way that makes sense for the organization and its newest members. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=x-small]We believe that the APA board and National Officers realize the importance of this legislation to the former LUS pilots, and to the over 14,000 pilots who were adversely affected by the termination of their DB plans.  Rest assured, we will continue to pursue any and all pathways to correct this gross injustice. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=x-small]We are disappointed to report that the PHX representatives strongly lobbied the board against funding the legislative effort. [/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=x-small]NICOLAI AWARD[/SIZE]
[SIZE=x-small]We find it interesting that in the opinion of APA’s General Counsel, the “Nicolai award” is NOT legally binding.[/SIZE]
 
 
[SIZE=x-small]FATIGUE[/SIZE]
[SIZE=x-small]We have recently received calls from pilots regarding the use of “Fatigue”. A valid fatigue call is one that is incurred as a result of being at work, i.e. noisy hotel, fire alarm, onerous trip pairing resulting in fatigue, etc. Being at home prior to a trip and not sleeping because of a new baby, puppy, domestic argument is not a payable fatigue event. On another note, failure to voluntarily extend a FAR117 duty period is also NOT a “fatigue event”. The company (at least on the LAA) side has (erroneously) inserted “fatigue’ in a pilots history file for failure to extend. Remember, you do not have to extend your duty period by even (1) minute. While on the subject of fatigue, some bases are scheduled to a cap of 95 hours in November and December.  Combine the extra on duty reserve days, currently required for east pilots, and trip pairings with multiple 5 leg days, one could cleary understand why fatigue calls could increase. Remember by law you must be rested for your duty assignment. [/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=x-small]JUMPSEAT[/SIZE]
[SIZE=x-small]The hot topic of late (besides JCBA & Scope) is the Jumpseat. We continue to discuss this with the new APA BOD at every opportunity. Right now the general view of the BOD is to wait until the JCBA process is over and then make a decision. Understand, as often as we hear from LUS pilots regarding this issue, the LAA reps hear from LAA pilots on the other side of the fence. Our human and professional tendency is to be wary and resistant to change. When you meet a LAA pilot, please be professional, patient and informative as to why you would like to continue with the best J/S program in the industry. Go out of your way and offer to demonstrate to your fellow American pilot just how to call and reserve the J/S.  A professional, courteous educational campaign will go a long way in helping to keep this outstanding program.  Rest assured that it is one of our top priorities.[/SIZE]  
 
[SIZE=x-small]UPCOMING CLT-PHL TOWN HALL MEETING: November 12, 2014 @ 6:30pm ET[/SIZE]
[SIZE=x-small]During our time in Dallas the week of November 10th, your CLT & PHL reps will conduct a joint town hall meeting. These teleconference meetings allow a very large contingent of our pilots to participate and ask questions of your reps. Please plan to be on the call if you can. More details will be provided in an upcoming special update.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=x-small]THE NEW APA BOARD OF DIRECTORS[/SIZE]
[SIZE=x-small]In the month of October, we have attended three BOD meetings and numerous training classes.  We are extremely encouraged by the professionalism and working relationship that the combined board has with each other.  We are included and relied upon as if we have been there for years.  It is the first time in our careers that we have seen such a unified body representing the pilots of an airline.  Although there are differences here and there, one thing we are in total agreement on is our place within the industry.  We are resolute and up to the challenge if the company decides to place us somewhere other than our rightful place with our peers.   [/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=x-small]PAYBANK GRIEVANCE[/SIZE]
[SIZE=x-small]As many of you know, the company erroneously computed the paybank values for pilots that incurred these values under the retrospective pay period. In our opinion, any hours that were credited to a pilot’s bank during the retrospective calculation, needed to be computed at the higher pay rates. This issue was heard in an Appeal Hearing two weeks ago and was not awarded by Captain Hale. As a note, the Flight Ops Leadership assured your CLT reps that this was due our pilots on several occasions. In our view this is a clear indication of the limited authority AA legal has extended to them.  The issue will now be scheduled for pre-arbitration conference.  Considering the extremely low cost of this item, it is amazing to us how quickly this company will sacrifice integrity and goodwill for a nickel! How do you like the new corporate (legal controlled) culture so far?[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=x-small]EAST RESERVE GREIVANCE[/SIZE]
[SIZE=x-small] APA President Keith Wilson is preparing a Presidential Grievance on behalf of the LUS – East pilots.  The fact that we continually have to fight our way through virtually every part of the MOU and MTA is worrisome and telling of what to expect going forward.  We take no pride in putting out our joint CLT, DCA, & PHL “The Great East Reserve Screw Job” base blast, but the company left us no other choice. [/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=x-small]NOVEMBER 12-14, 2014 Special BOD Meeting[/SIZE]
[SIZE=x-small]We will be in special session the week of November 10th to await the company's [/SIZE][SIZE=x-small]compensation proposal. In a recent note to investors, JP Morgan's airline analyst Jamie Baker estimated that the recent drop in fuel prices, "should afford AAL roughly $1.5 billion of reduced expenses in 2015". This is in addition to the just beginning $1.0 billion in net synergies and the recently disclosed increment positive of $400 million associated with hub re-banking and variable scheduling. In total that's nearly $3.0 billion in positives to the New AA. As President Keith Wilson stated in his recent update, “It’s our turn”.  In our view, it would be a monumental miscalculation on management’s side to force a contract on the 15,000 pilots of the New American Airlines through interest arbitration with terms imposed upon us in bankruptcy. The future success of this airline is squarely in the hands of Messer’s Parker & Kirby.[/SIZE]
 
 
[SIZE=x-small]Fly smart and Fly safe[/SIZE]
[SIZE=x-small]Captain Bob Frear[/SIZE]
[SIZE=x-small]Captain Ron Nelson[/SIZE]
[SIZE=x-small]CLT-REPS@alliedpilots.org [/SIZE]
 
 

 
I highlighted a lot of the latest CLT "leadership" message for a reason:  I'm trying for even MORE negative votes.  WHY?
 
CLT TOP TEN REASONS APA HAS NO LEVERAGE
 
1.  West pilot leading STRIKE (company benefit, the APA thinks "goat videos" will work against the company...the APA didn't even think this one through)
2. West pilot reps STRONGLY against funding for PBGC issue for LUS (company benefit, not that we'll prevail, unions are not in favor with government anymore)
3. The reason we HAVE no scope....THE PROPOSED CONTINUOUS WEST FIGHT FOR THE NICOLAU AWARD (Company benefit, or why scope contract language is relegated to the graveyard)
4. Fatigue calls are useless (company benefit)
5. Jumpseat:  First come (West argument) over DOH (East argument).  NEWS FLASH:  JUMPSEAT IS COMPANY PROPERTY.  PERIOD.
6. CLT town hall meeting.....ZZZZZZZZZ (company benefit)
7. APA resolute and up to the challenge (Company benefit, sickout and another $50 million dollar fine)
8. Paybank grievance denied (Company benefit with YEARS OF A_R_B_I_T_R_A_T_I_O_N)
9. East reserve grievance (see #8 above)
AND THE NUMBER 10.:
 
THE MONUMENTAL MISCALCULATION THE APA MAKES BELIEVING AND BLAMING THE COMPANY FOR THE CONTRACT THROUGH 2019 (and beyond)!!
 
luvthe9 said:
From the MIA APA......maybe they are getting the idea.





Hi Guys and Gals,
I want to share what I know and attempt to get the bases temperature on where you want to go.
The company has told APA that they will give us an offer around November 12th. Might be a day or two either side of that. I’m bracing for the initial offer to have a five seat Scope ask. I would like to think that since the Board of Directors called Mr. Parker over to our headquarters and told him in no uncertain terms that Scope gives are a deal killer, that he wouldn’t bother asking. Unfortunately, I’m not feeling that he will take our advice, at least initially. I think he and Mr. Kirby are trying to frame this like we’re the bad guys, since he’s only asking for five seats and all… My belief is that the BOD will stand united on Scope.
What happens next is anyone’s guess, but based on everything the company has and has not done up to today, I am not optimistic that they are willing to bring us up to Industry Standard. My hunch is they will throw a pretty decent pay raise at us and try and close the deal. I cannot accept just pay. I won’t list everything, but in my mind, you deserve significant improvements not only in pay, but LOS, Retiree Medical, Active Medical costs, Reserve, Minimum Day, LTD, Sick and Vacation! You, through your union and your own hard work, have made this new airline possible. The profits are rolling in. You are thanked, but what you really need is your contract fixed. In my mind, a boss who really appreciates you will compensate you at least what others doing the same job at his competitors are being compensated.
Maybe I will be happily surprised? If it’s not a fair deal, I will not vote to send it on to you. I know a few of you would like to have a vote on anything, but haven’t we had enough of our leadership sending crap to us and saying ‘hey I know it’s a lousy deal, but I wanted you to decide for yourself’? Instead of locking in a deal that doesn’t address every inadequate section of our contract, I would rather send it to arbitration and wait for our pay raise in just over 13 months. If that happens, you can thank your senior management team at AAG.
Some on the BOD have advocated letting Mr. Kirby come and make another sales pitch on your dime. I am strongly opposed to wasting any more time with cheap talk. I, along with the entire BOD, have already met face to face with Mr. Parker. That was less than a month ago. The Board made it crystal clear that we will not give on Scope AND that we expect Industry Standard or better in ALL parts of our contract. This is what Mr. Parker and Mr. Kirby had promised us in exchange for our backing them to lead the new American Airlines.
So, bottom line is by the end of next week you will know the direction Mr. Parker and Mr. Kirby are taking. Their chance to keep us doing more than required is a closing window of opportunity. They can reward your Herculean efforts over the last decade or they can snub you and your family. Again, I’m praying for the former, but bracing for the worst.
I want your input. I will try and do what you, the membership want. Call, email, and send sound offs. Thank you for trusting me to represent you.
Respectfully,
Tom Gallagher


.
Welcome to the big leagues Tom (and the LAA pilots).  Scope is gone because the company doesn't care about seniority and neither should you.  Haven't you guys gut checked the MOU II, MTA, JCBA, ABCD, DADADADA, etc. lately but I predict it GOES TO ARBITRATION and the APA can AGAIN blame the company for what you in MIA do not want to do: send it out for rank and file ratification.  If you guys don't like the game at least quit breaking your own mirrors.
 
I'm on a roll today.  The Republicans KICKED the Dems butts last night and for a great reason.  The people of the US HOPEFULLY has learned that the COLOR of ones skin does NOT make a leader (nor does winning the Nobel peace prize for .....DOING NOTHING but being HALF AFRICAN AMERICAN).  Maybe they'll keep that in mind in 2016 when Hillary runs.  Being female or former first lady doesn't make a leader, either.  There is a PLETHORA of highly qualified candidates in this country who are CITIZENS first and color, age, sexual orientation, gender or otherwise have little to nothing to do with LEADERSHIP....a PLETHORA!  The liberal mentality of trying to change behavior through government control and LYING about it is nothing short of Stalinist and Hitlerist.
 
The time is NOW to get government out of the way and let the CITIZENS do what THEY DO BEST.  It is the only real way a real leader is supposed to LEAD.  Big government hopefully will go on a major diet and HOPEFULLY the Supreme Court will strip BIG (ALL) UNIONS of their ability to pick your pocket with dues.  MAKE THEM EARN YOUR DUES, NOT CONFISCATE THEM.
 
Every entity EXCEPT labor unions have accepted the reality of a new day and a "back to doing business as it should be done".  Unions NEED to quit relying on the government for protection and QUIT BLAMING THE COMPANY for their poor choices for bargaining agreements.  The unions turn is now upon all of us and your current "leadership" really needs a REALITY CHECK!
 
Remember, NO SENIORITY, NO SCOPE, NO FUTURE.
 
Welcome to the big leagues. 
 
nycbusdriver said:
 
I'm in favor of analyzing exactly how those five seats would affect the APA pilots, and not be bent on "defending the profession" in a quixotic quest to show everybody just how pigheaded, possibly stupid, we can be.
 
How many APA pilots will be furloughed, or upgrades delayed, by relaxing those 5 seats?  Or, with more pax arriving in our hubs via those seats, how many new jobs for the APA will it create taking those people to their destinations on mainline planes?  (Did anyone ever even think of that?)
 
Yes, the company negotiated 76 seats.  Now they want 81, and the pilots want more money.  We are again in negotiations.  What exactly do you think negotiations are?  The company understands it perfectly.  It seems the pilots don't quite get the concept.
Respectfully, I disagree.
 
Consider the condition of the  industry.  Very soon Delta and United will be in negotiations on their new contracts.  It APA entertains giving up scope now it will happen at Delta and United.  My personal bet is that is exactly what Parker and Kirby are counting on.  United and Delta management will ask for 5 seats on top of our 81.  This is not about 5 seats, its about gutting scope in total.  Get the big picture.  There are only 3 major airlines.  If we give up and go to 81, Delta will go for 86.  United will be forced to go for more.
 
If you would entertain it at all wait to see what the others will do.Tell Parker and Kirby to come back after the others have closed.  Look to the language of the other contracts to see if they will have clauses that will open the contract if another carrier modifies scope.  That's the tell that it is not just about 5 seats.
 
As to the money, Parker and Kirby are all about the money and they will not put serious dollars on the table for a "little ole 5 seats".  If they do put the money on the table, then look very closely to the language.  Particularly for escape language that would allow them to reopen or adjust scope upwards if other carriers modify theirs.  That's the only way they would pay significantly for those, "little ole 5 seats."  
 
This is not just 5 seats, this is an attempt to change the industry.  Who is going to fly the new MRJ (100 Seat RJ).  Who is going to fly the new E190's and the C-100 and C-300?  This is about changeing the industry with the new large RJ's just over the horizon.
 
The proposal will change the pay rates in the new contract for those RJ aircraft already negotiated but not yet on the property.  This is a big change not just a "little ole 5 seats."
 
Rant over.
 
Al Legheny said:
Respectfully, I disagree.
 
Consider the condition of the  industry.  Very soon Delta and United will be in negotiations on their new contracts.  It APA entertains giving up scope now it will happen at Delta and United.  My personal bet is that is exactly what Parker and Kirby are counting on.  United and Delta management will ask for 5 seats on top of our 81.  This is not about 5 seats, its about gutting scope in total.  Get the big picture.  There are only 3 major airlines.  If we give up and go to 81, Delta will go for 86.  United will be forced to go for more.
 
If you would entertain it at all wait to see what the others will do.Tell Parker and Kirby to come back after the others have closed.  Look to the language of the other contracts to see if they will have clauses that will open the contract if another carrier modifies scope.  That's the tell that it is not just about 5 seats.
 
As to the money, Parker and Kirby are all about the money and they will not put serious dollars on the table for a "little ole 5 seats".  If they do put the money on the table, then look very closely to the language.  Particularly for escape language that would allow them to reopen or adjust scope upwards if other carriers modify theirs.  That's the only way they would pay significantly for those, "little ole 5 seats."  
 
This is not just 5 seats, this is an attempt to change the industry.  Who is going to fly the new MRJ (100 Seat RJ).  Who is going to fly the new E190's and the C-100 and C-300?  This is about changeing the industry with the new large RJ's just over the horizon.
 
The proposal will change the pay rates in the new contract for those RJ aircraft already negotiated but not yet on the property.  This is a big change not just a "little ole 5 seats."
 
Rant over.
Well said...
 
One more tid bit...
 
Management said it was waiting on the vote at APFA before making a counter to the APA proffer.  What does the APFA scope say??  Is there language that removes the "me too" clause with regards to scope?
 
The Envoy pilots are waiting on a final offer from the company.  I wonder what that might have?  The company is having trouble finding bodies for Envoy.  Are they going to sweeten the pot with larger RJ's and a better flow??
 
I say again....IT'S NOT ABOUT 5 SEATS.  There is more going on here.  Too many puzzle pieces in play.  Too many unkonwn's and not enough disclosure from the company. 
 
nycbusdriver, on 05 Nov 2014 - 6:43 PM, said:

 
Does it matter?  There will be innumerable extensions.

end_of_alpa said:
Yep.  That's right.
 
Well gentlemen; there was big rush to sign off on the MOU...It's a pity that too few clearly ever read it, or at ALL even considered the unique nature of both the opportunity and timing....and now it's back to business as usual for "Doug" and his merry band. How anyone couldn't/didn't see this coming will never cease to amaze....
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZrgxHvNNUc
 
EastUS1 said:
nycbusdriver, on 05 Nov 2014 - 6:43 PM, said:

 
Does it matter?  There will be innumerable extensions.

 
Well gentlemen; there was big rush to sign off on the MOU...It's a pity that too few clearly ever read it, or at ALL even considered the unique nature of both the opportunity and timing....and now it's back to business as usual for "Doug" and his merry band. How anyone couldn't/didn't see this coming will never cease to amaze....
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZrgxHvNNUc
Yep.  That's right.
 
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