2014 Pilot Discussion

[EastUS1]

electricjet98, on 10 Sept 2014 - 12:50 PM, said:

Noses are growing out east! All either lies, over simplifications or gross exagerations.
 

EastUS1, on 10 Sept 2014 - 1:43 PM, said:
Your one-size-fits-none claim there would be a bit more compelling if you could be so kind as to explain how any item your post "addresses" actually fits your entirely laughable, blanket disclaimer....?
 

Like I said, believe what you want. I've got better things to do than interrupt this east pilot circle-jerk!

 
In other words; you have zero defense for your BS, and can't actually argue anything against the honest observations of west behavior...?
 
I've always found wisdom in this old adage: When any person or group shows you who and what they are...Beieve them.

 

[Claxon]

For the west pilot's future investment choices in the army of lyingitas.
 
MB law stipulates two parties agreeing on a list, if not arbitration. Either result will become law.
 
There are two arbitrations agreed to in the Protocol Agreement.   One decides by arbitration if the west pilots should have a seat.
 
If the first arbitration says no west pilots, you will have a USAPA, APA SLI agreement.
 
If the first arbitration says the west have a seat, the west pilots will be assigned a seat and asked by apa about wide bodies, bases, future aircraft orders, ie: relevancy yada yada.  Afterwards you will have a USAPA, APA SLI agreement.
 
If I were the second arbitration panel, I would not buy airline tickets or book hotel rooms, anticipating the need for their services as of yet.

 

[Freighterguynow]

Well using the Nic would be combining the East and West lists before trying to integrate them into the AA list. So that would mean integrating 2 lists into the new one..

Lets flesh this out.

Using the Nicolau list to combine Us Airways/ America West lists:

That list would result in 1200 East pilots junior to the very bottom West. 4500 total nets save Dave at 27% off the bottom.

Next:

8400 active old American pilots at 27 % ( on a relative merge) nets 2300 active American pilots junior to every West pilot and 1200 additional furloughed American pilots get stapled to the bottom using the Nicolau methodology.

Net result on a combined 3 way list with 12,900 total pilot population puts 4700 American/ Us Airways pilots below the most junior west one.

 

[Claxon]

Lets flesh this out.
Using the Nicolau list to combine Us Airways/ America West lists:
That list would result in 1200 East pilots junior to the very bottom West. 4500 total nets save Dave at 27% off the bottom.
Next:
8400 active old American pilots at 27 % ( on a relative merge) nets 2300 active American pilots junior to every West pilot and 1200 additional furloughed American pilots get stapled to the bottom using the Nicolau methodology.
Net result on a combined 3 way list with 12,900 total pilot population puts 4700 American/ Us Airways pilots below the most junior west one.

Going to be very interesting how the Nic proposal by the west is received by APA. One would imagine the volley question back would be to Fergie..." Here is some paper. Please write your bases and wide body flying"

Oh, and the APA has received the ALPA master scab list. Please remember this when you fill out your app for APA membership.

 

[luvthe9]

Going to be very interesting how the Nic proposal by the west is received by APA. One would imagine the volley question back would be to Fergie..." Here is some paper. Please write your bases and wide body flying"
Oh, and the APA has received the ALPA master scab list. Please remember this when you fill out your app for APA membership.

So will the APA let the west scabs into their union, the last question on the application asks if you scabbed another airline.

 

[traderjake]

I've always found wisdom in this old adage: When any person or group shows you who and what they are...Beieve them.

 

[snapthis]

APFA Travel Grievance denied
OurAmerican Communications - September 11, 2014


It is with great disappointment that we inform you that Arbitrator Joshua Javits formally denied our pass travel grievance that was filed to challenge the company’s unilateral change in determining boarding priority from a seniority based system to a system determined by time of check- in (First Come/First Serve). The ruling by Arbitrator Javits concluded that while Section 20.B of our CBA provides how the term “seniority” should be defined for passes, the language does not require the company to use a seniority-based boarding priority for Flight Attendant’s travel benefits. In his Award, Arbitrator Javits relied heavily on Section 20.E of the CBA which states that "Seniority shall govern all Flight Attendants in case of furlough, recall, vacation preferences, bidding rights and filling of vacancies." Because the parties did not include travel passes in this provision during the negotiation for the contract, Arbitrator Javits concluded that the Company was not mandated to use seniority for determining Flight Attendants’ travel benefits. Of course, we vehemently disagree with Arbitrator Javits' conclusion in light of decades of practice regarding a seniority based boarding priority, as well as the existence of numerous provisions of the 2013 CBA that are governed by seniority and do not fall within the categories listed in Section 20.E.

Arbitrator Javits also concluded that while the parties had a long history of using a seniority based system for Flight Attendants’ travel benefits, the Company had been “very careful in preserving its right to change its travel benefits policy if required in the future.” Per Arbitrator Javits, the addition of the “substantially” reduced language to Section 26G.1 was the company’s way of preserving its right to make changes to its travel pass policy, which the company succeeded in obtaining during the negotiations for the 2013 CBA.

Mr. Javits recognized that the new travel policy would have some adverse impact to flight attendants because of our lack of access to a computer at all times compared to other employee groups. However, he opined that the number of flight attendant’s affected is likely to be very small and this restriction would also be applicable to the pilot group. As such, Arbitrator Javits ruled that “while there may have been a reduction in overall travel benefits for Flight Attendants, this was not a ‘substantial reduction’ in benefits.” Arbitrator Javits also noted that the company's new travel policy provides some level of increased benefits to all flight attendants, including the addition of more daily flights and access to many more destinations, both domestically and internationally.

Needless to say, we are very disappointed in Arbitrator Javits’ ruling and we are just as frustrated as you are about the broad changes in the travel policy. For decades we have relied on a seniority based boarding priority to get to work and make our living in order to support ourselves and our families. As you know, the addition of more daily flights and the access to more destinations are irrelevant if we cannot make it to work. If you encounter any problems in commuting to work as a result of the new travel policy and you receive a "stuck commute" under the Dependability program, please let your base representatives know so that a grievance can be filed on your behalf.

As a side note, the initial draft Award was sent to the parties approximately six weeks after the hearing. This is a common practice in the arbitration process. Typically, the System Board Members will then have a confidential Executive Session to discuss the particulars of the Award and may ask questions and request further clarification from the arbitrator before the final Award is written and signed. In this instance, the company leaked the results of the Arbitration Award before the ink was dry on the preliminary draft. Perhaps they could not contain their glee. To say that this was highly irregular and improper is an understatement and their action shows a complete and flagrant disregard for both the spirit and the letter of the grievance process. Let us hope that this does not represent the attitude of The New American toward its frontline employees’ future concerns and rights under the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

In Solidarity,

Glenda J. Talley
CEC Grievance Chairperson

 

[Hawkhunter]

After all these years, it is still a sad day to remember. Never forget.

 

[EastUS1]

 

I've always found wisdom in this old adage: When any person or group shows you who and what they are...Beieve them.

 

 
Hearty congrats on scoring an unusually, in fact almost even sentient "point" traitor. I did indeed miss typing in an "L", while you've only missed out on ever having a "L"ife.

 

[EastUS1]

After all these years, it is still a sad day to remember. Never forget.

 
None of us should ever forget...no matter how "politically incorrect" it is to know our enemies for who and what they are...

 

[EastUS1]

APFA Travel Grievance denied
OurAmerican Communications - September 11, 2014


It is with great disappointment that we inform you that Arbitrator Joshua Javits formally denied our pass travel grievance that was filed to challenge the company’s unilateral change in determining boarding priority from a seniority based system to a system determined by time of check- in (First Come/First Serve).

 
What is it with "you'se", umm "spartans" about always cheering when anyone's worked years of service are rendered worthless? Does it really kill "you'se" to even imagine ever actually working for anything in life yourselves?
 
And for "you'se" snap, I'm curious here: Just how many "varsity letter jackets" and "trophies" do you truly believe should go to the vast legions of your fellow, hopelessly mediocre shmucks in this world?....Not for ever really doing anything, of course, but just for being alive?

 

[traderjake]

 
Hearty congrats on scoring an unusually, in fact almost even sentient "point" traitor. I did indeed miss typing in an "L", while you've only missed out on ever having a "L"ife.

 
Says the guy who rips other people for not proof reading their posts.  
 
LMOA

 

[traderjake]

 
What is it with "you'se", umm "spartans" about always cheering when anyone's worked years of service are rendered worthless? Does it really kill "you'se" to even imagine ever actually working for anything in life yourselves?
 
And for "you'se" snap: Just how many "vasrity letter jackets" and "trophies" do you truly believe should go to the vast legions of your fellow, hopelessly mediocre shmucks in this world?....Just for being alive?

 
"Say it loud
 
Say it plowed"
 
http://www.drunkard.com/bbs/viewforum.php?f=12

 

[EastUS1]

 
Says the guy who rips other people for not proof reading their posts.  
 
LMOA

 
I gave you "almost even sentient "point" traitor." What more do you want, "LT Hardy"? I wish it were otherwise, but I just can't help you with the ever getting a life you could actually be proud of part.  Was it "Just how many "varsity letter jackets" and "trophies" do you truly believe should go to the vast legions of your fellow, hopelessly mediocre shmucks in this world?....Just for being alive?" that sent you personally over the edge this time? Don't fret. You can always watch some more movies about "Honor"....I hear that just watching Bruce Willis in "Striking Distance" alone, and quoting Hollywierd fantasies about "Honor" on the net, more than makes up for anyone's personal failings..."LT Hardy."

 

[Barrister]

Says the guy who rips other people for not proof reading their posts.  
 
LMOA

Ahh shouldn't it be LMAO ???
Nicdoa
Npjb