2014 Pilot Discussion

[traderjake]

8 to 3, the West wasn't getting anything meaningful the East didn't want. 

 

[Pi brat]

Sure, I'll keep up the good work. I'll bet I spent a lot less on AOL (you lost more under LOA 93) which kept you from getting that raise above bankruptcy wages, kept you from getting DOH. It's called punishment so be prepared for more in the future. We'll teach you a lesson about trying to cheat pilots by setting up a fake union for that purpose. You won't get any help from the APA to cheat West pilots because they don't want to inherit your history of lawsuits. Bottom line is this whole USAPA experiment was short-sighted and you will pay the price because you don't have any LEVERAGE against the APA, you also have the West pilots working against you. You're on your own. Too bad. You should have anticipated there may be a merger, prepared to get chewed up and spit out.

Your logic confounds me. I don't know your seniority, so maybe the stagnation of the west hasn't hurt you, but I feel pretty confident that the bottom 1/3 of your list has been hit much harder by this than what was paid by AOL.
 
So, why don't you lay out the lessons you are going to teach us. I see things as our of our hand to teach the other side any more. I'd like to have your blueprint to reference when this is all, finally, over.
 
I wonder if this come down to the word "legal."
 
From the PA:
 
"provided, that all parties reserve their rights and/or positions with respect to the establishment of a separate Merger Committee to represent the interests of the pilots on the US Airways (West) seniority list referenced in paragraph 2( B) including, without limitation, APA’s position that, following certification by the NMB as the single bargaining representative, it will have the discretion to designate such a committee, and USAPA’s position that APA will have no such legal authority."
 
A certain judge answered that question:
 
"Meaning of McCaskill-Bond
With the limited amount of guidance from CAB, and the parties offering no other
legal authority or materials that might help illuminate Congressional intent, the Court is left
to arrive at the meaning of McCaskill-Bond on its own. Section 3 requires carriers provide
a “fair and equitable” integration process. And Section 13 requires arbitration between “the
organization or organizations representing the employee or employees.” The Court is
persuaded this statutory text should be interpreted in harmony with those CAB decisions
allowing participation only by the employees’ certified representatives. When a certified
representative exists, that representative owes a duty of fair representation to all employees.
A “fair and equitable” integration process will involve that representative acting on behalf
of the represented employees. And when a certified bargaining representative exists,
introducing an independent group, such as the West Pilots, would “interfere with the
established representation format” and also “tamper with and inevitably complicate the
procedures used to negotiate seniority list integration.”  In addition, allowing the involvement of any employee or group
of employees with sufficiently distinct interests would be an invitation to chaos; the seniority
integration process cannot accommodate the participation of whoever might be affected by
the final result. Therefore, the process contemplated by McCaskill-Bond allows only the
certified bargaining representatives to participate in seniority integration proceedings."
 
I think if all sides agreed before the PA to the establishment of a west committee, then that would have been fine. But they didn't and they agreed to a method to settle the impasse. Will the panel use the words above and go by what is legal, or what they think is fair?
 

 

[Pi brat]

8 to 3, the West wasn't getting anything meaningful the East didn't want. 

Just as you and I can't get anything we want that the rest of our east buddies don't. That's how it works. Do you turn to guerrilla warfare if you don't get what you want? How's that turned out?

 

[Claxon]

west offered the Nic at Wye with a fence that would be gone now. If Eric Ferguson ever shows again in west crew room, yes, the one crew room, please ask him why he did not take it.
Ferguson would now be fairly senior captain with his 2004 hire date. Ask him why he turned down the Nic he could have had.
Problem is, he phone checks in order to report directly to his gate. It is now that hostile for him.

 

[Freighterguynow]

8 to 3, the West wasn't getting anything meaningful the East didn't want.

Will the sun rise tomorrow?

8 yes 3 no.

 

[electricjet98]

ELEC98, let me see if I have this straight, BRICE LECAIRES wife copies data supplied by ALPA EAST to help the flt att negotiations, then she copies it gives it to the WEST merger comm,  supplied to NIC, used against us, 2 days of closed session no time for EAST rebuttal, you send feces and rocks in the mail to USAPA, tie up the "SAFETY HOTLINE " balk at WYE RIVER, LITIGATE to your hearts content have more than the average bears chance for compromise! And now your singing the JOHN LENNON song imagine!, With a big red poker my friend!

 
 

Agreed about the west greed.
 
The west is trying to rewrite history.  No doubt about bruces woman, no doubt about Wye, no doubt about Rico actions, no doubt about standing up in a meeting with Parker and accusing East pilots of apu, non direct flight plan routes.  No doubt about an america west pilot management pilot accessing sensitive computer information of East pilots and handing it over to a 2003 date of hire greaseball. 
 
The west had many chances to work it out, but they only chose results aiming at punitive damages to the East. 
 
Electricaljet98 is asking for a cumbaya position, when he is laying on the ground begging.
 
How embarrassing.

 
 

Lets put this to good use. Show the voting record of the PHX reps, the dozens of requests for PHX based pilots to populate committees, the number of quitters from those committees, the overtures made by the East at compromise and all the related AOL efforts to undermine the pilot group as a whole and lets parade this information in front of whatever authority or venue is available to counter the West whining about the lack of representation or perceived disenfranchisement.
It wasn't personal until the West's juvenile actions made it personal. This needs to be told.

 
 

west offered the Nic at Wye with a fence that would be gone now. If Eric Ferguson ever shows again in west crew room, yes, the one crew room, please ask him why he did not take it.
Ferguson would now be fairly senior captain with his 2004 hire date. Ask him why he turned down the Nic he could have had.
Problem is, he phone checks in order to report directly to his gate. It is now that hostile for him.

Noses are growing out east! All either lies, over simplifications or gross exagerations. Okay, I'll give you one...Brice LeCarre IS married!

Go ahead and believe what you want...I remember the same twisting of facts by east pilots pre-Nicolau.

 

[A320 Driver]

8 to 3, the West wasn't getting anything meaningful the East didn't want.

One of them told me that his vote was a protest vote no matter what the issue unless it was something that directly concerned them. That's not representation...that's a choice. A bad one.

 

[EastUS1]

 Noses are growing out east! All either lies, over simplifications or gross exagerations.

 
Your one-size-fits-none claim there would be a bit more compelling if you could be so kind as to explain how any item your post "addresses" actually fits your entirely laughable, blanket disclaimer....?

 

[electricjet98]

Your one-size-fits-none claim there would be a bit more compelling if you could be so kind as to explain how any item your post "addresses" actually fits your entirely laughable, blanket disclaimer....?

Like I said, believe what you want. I've got better things to do than interrupt this east pilot circle-jerk!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Elec98, Really? You have no , and I repeat NO, evidence to the contrary in fact your void self proclamation is a huge indication! But hey you were the "TRUST" monger, we will see, the knows, knows!

 

[snapthis]

It looks like I have been missing all the fun. Here's an idea what the updated seniority list looks as of 9-1-14.
 
View attachment 10429

It's a little blurry but Dave is still senior to Dean on page 89 of 122.

 

[Freighterguynow]

He is on the last page of the West list - that should 'clear' up the blurriness.

 

[A320 Driver]

You haven't missed anything Snap. That the updated NIC list? That agreement we just signed referred to the 3 lists in effect on December 9th, didn't it? What does that have to do with the NIC?

 

[luvthe9]

The APA application asks if you have scabbed at another airline, you boys make sure not to lie on that one.

 

[snapthis]

You haven't missed anything Snap. That the updated NIC list? That agreement we just signed referred to the 3 lists in effect on December 9th, didn't it? What does that have to do with the NIC?

Come to think of it, you're right, it's the same old song and dance and have not missed much. That is the updated Nic list considering the retirements and other changes since the list came out. I'll leave it to the lawyers to figure the rest out, 3 lists, etc.