2014 Pilot Discussion

[EastUS1]

Part of the reality check noted and addressed in a recent Leonidas update:

"APA has thus far presented no real reason for West pilots to support it other than not USAPA. Whether intended or not, West pilots have been misled by false propaganda and ambiguous commitments before. We are rightfully leery and skeptical of representations made by any union (or management) and our trust and support must be earned."

 
"Part of the reality check" is that you were among the first on your block here to flash pom poms and even links for APA membership applications, and now it's "APA has thus far presented no real reason for West pilots to support it.."...? What's changed? Here I'd understood that the APA was certain to hand you the nic...No? What went wrong there? Could it even possibly be that (given your track record) they're not the least bit concerned with west threats of litigation? Didn't you tell them that "this is sparta!", or at least offer them some "Integrity Matters" T-shirts and "liberty" ties? Has it finally dawned on "you'se" that the APA's hardly your dearest friend where seniority's involved, and not at all concerned with your "righteous" fantasies of artificially enhanced, super "seniority" for your oh-so-special group? I'd almost hate to say I told you so but that much was both obvious and fully predictable by anyone with so much as one eye even half open. Feeling just a little bit confused and clueless of late? Perhaps you should just call on the likes of prechillil to again come forward with a hearty "Ho ho ho! St nic is coming to town!", coupled with a "T-minus" countdown clock or two, a few more mindless threats towards the east, and of course exhortations about being "a good union pilot" by applying for early APA membership consideration asap.
 
No matter really, since I'm confident that the absurdly self-styled "supreme commander" of your supposed "army" and the cabal of buffoons "leading" AOL have the situation well in hand, much like "the great and powerful OZ" did.

 

[EastUS1]

 Whether intended or not, West pilots have been misled by false propaganda and ambiguous commitments before.

 
Perhaps starting with "This is Sparta!" and how the mighty "Shield of Leonidas" is "protecting" you all?
 
"Our funding strategy is ever-evolving to meet future challenges. The America West pilots have done an outstanding job voluntarily contributing to pay our past legal obligations, but the fight will continue as long as USAPA’s officers are able to interfere OR the APA decides to withdraw support for a separate West merger committee. Possible legal actions going forward to defend the former America West seniority rights are expected to include the Ninth Circuit appeal, possible contempt charges against USAPA’s officers, and recovering dues money from USAPA. Additionally and more importantly is the funding for a West merger committee. The APA has tepidly committed to nothing more than a few vague references found in the DC litigation documents such as, “[After APA is certified as the single bargaining representative]...'it would assume responsibility for the structure of the pre-merger groups' merger committees consistent with its legal obligations, including the discretion to provide for the separate participation of the West Pilots in the seniority integration process if APA so chooses.'” In order to ensure a fair process, there must be a level playing field, but even this has not been guaranteed and we must be prepared to fund expenses and litigation in real time as the need arises, potentially awaiting repayment of these expenditures in the future."
 
"Our funding strategy is ever-evolving to meet future challenges." Aren't the $675 ties selling faster than you can make them? Nowadays, you're just "potentially awaiting repayment of these expenditures in the future"? That sounds a bit on the desperate side. Whatever happened to the "billions in damages", or even the author of that last lunacy, nic4us, for that matter?
 
" In order to ensure a fair process, there must be a level playing field, but even this has not been guaranteed....The APA has tepidly committed to nothing more than a few vague references..." Well then! "You'se" had better go all "spartan" on them and tell them who's who and what's what ASAP! You had best gather up "Larry Potta", whatever other "wizards" you have in reserve, "cap'n aux" and some other "battle"-tested-"knights" as well, and make your unconditional demands and what "west pilots require" very clear! Failing any success with even those mighty forces; you might consider threatening the APA with a non-stop serenade by your "Black Top Pests" virtuosos. "if APA so chooses" should reasonably fail to inspire much faith in anyone on the US side.

 

[EastUS1]

Like it or not we are in this together.

 
That much has been true since 2005, but I don't expect any grand epiphany to suddenly take place now.
 
I must reasonably wonder if it's finally dawning on some in PHX just how truly foolish they've been though....

 

[end_of_alpa]

That much has been true since 2005, but I don't expect any grand epiphany to suddenly take place now.
 
I must reasonably wonder if it's finally dawning on some in PHX just how truly foolish they've been though....

Answer: NO. The snake under Snaps boot is nothing more than the voice of reason and reality getting its head cut off. What's left is the body of AOL shaking and squirming in its final death throws.

What a waste of money.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Perhaps starting with "This is Sparta!" and how the mighty "Shield of Leonidas" is "protecting" you all?
 
"Our funding strategy is ever-evolving to meet future challenges. The America West pilots have done an outstanding job voluntarily contributing to pay our past legal obligations, but the fight will continue as long as USAPA’s officers are able to interfere OR the APA decides to withdraw support for a separate West merger committee. Possible legal actions going forward to defend the former America West seniority rights are expected to include the Ninth Circuit appeal, possible contempt charges against USAPA’s officers, and recovering dues money from USAPA. Additionally and more importantly is the funding for a West merger committee. The APA has tepidly committed to nothing more than a few vague references found in the DC litigation documents such as, “[After APA is certified as the single bargaining representative]...'it would assume responsibility for the structure of the pre-merger groups' merger committees consistent with its legal obligations, including the discretion to provide for the separate participation of the West Pilots in the seniority integration process if APA so chooses.'” In order to ensure a fair process, there must be a level playing field, but even this has not been guaranteed and we must be prepared to fund expenses and litigation in real time as the need arises, potentially awaiting repayment of these expenditures in the future."
 
"Our funding strategy is ever-evolving to meet future challenges." Aren't the $675 ties selling faster than you can make them? Nowadays, you're just "potentially awaiting repayment of these expenditures in the future"? That sounds a bit on the desperate side. Whatever happened to the "billions in damages", or even the author of that last lunacy, nic4us, for that matter?
 
" In order to ensure a fair process, there must be a level playing field, but even this has not been guaranteed....The APA has tepidly committed to nothing more than a few vague references..." Well then! "You'se" had better go all "spartan" on them and tell them who's who and what's what ASAP! You had best gather up "Larry Potta", whatever other "wizards" you have in reserve, "cap'n aux" and some other "battle"-tested-"knights" as well, and make your unconditional demands and what "west pilots require" very clear! Failing any success with even those mighty forces; you might consider threatening the APA with a non-stop serenade by your "Black Top Pests" virtuosos. "if APA so chooses" should reasonably fail to inspire much faith in anyone on the US side.

How come this isn't posted on their website? They change their mind?

 

[Phoenix]

Part of the reality check noted and addressed in a recent Leonidas update:
"APA has thus far presented no real reason for West pilots to support it other than not USAPA. Whether intended or not, West pilots have been misled by false propaganda and ambiguous commitments before. We are rightfully leery and skeptical of representations made by any union (or management) and our trust and support must be earned."

The APA promises to keep working on earning the trust of former pilots from TWA and Reno too!

P.S. I still don't know... Is it your optimism or your desperation that causes your irrational exuberance over meaningless "commitments" from APA?

 

[Phoenix]

Answer: NO. The snake under Snaps boot is nothing more than the voice of reason and reality getting its head cut off. What's left is the body of AOL shaking and squirming in its final death throws.
What a waste of money.

True that.

The West's only legal failure was an implicit assumption that the Nic would be implemented. They failed to account for the contingencies in the 2005 TA.... A very expensive oversight.... Did their lawyer team understand and properly inform them....? Hmmm..

 

[snapthis]

Your so right, we all know that Ferguson and Koontz lied to the west pilots, you were all taken by their false promises. Make no mistake the APA wants us both on the bottom, they are not your friends. Dump those AOL bums now!!!
Like it or not we are in this together.

I understand that there is a lot of interest in the Phoenix Domicile meeting. Will there be new proposals which promotes unity?

It will be an interesting day indeed.

 

[EastUS1]

How come this isn't posted on their website? They change their mind?

 
It's up on the leonidas site. http://leonidas.cactuspilots.us/   The quoted material comes from the 6th paragraph down the page. An interesting fantasy from the 5th paragraph asserts the following, based on a supposed "ruling" (versus dicta) that never took place: "Should USAPA continue representing any US Airways pilot after decertification, they will individually and jointly be in contempt of Judge Silver’s order because she clearly ruled (at USAPA's urging) that USAPA could no longer represent any pilots after decertification." They apparently believe that only the mighty AOL would be able to engage in litigation after the APA becomes the union. This laughable notion is naturally coupled with the usual threats of suing everyone alive into oblivion, which has of course worked out so well for them thus far. I think there might have been something about getting "your little dog too!", but I'm not going to waste time re-reading any more of it. From just what dark cavern these "spartan" fantasies arise is anyone's guess...perhaps from the same pit that originally found them imagining the nic to have been "federal" and somehow sacrosanct arbitration?

 

[end_of_alpa]

It's up on the leonidas site. http://leonidas.cactuspilots.us/   The quoted material comes from the 6th paragraph down the page. An interesting fantasy from the 5th paragraph asserts the following, based on a supposed "ruling" (versus dicta) that never took place: "Should USAPA continue representing any US Airways pilot after decertification, they will individually and jointly be in contempt of Judge Silver’s order because she clearly ruled (at USAPA's urging) that USAPA could no longer represent any pilots after decertification." They apparently believe that only the mighty AOL would be able to engage in litigation after the APA becomes the union. This laughable notion is naturally coupled with the usual threats of suing everyone alive into oblivion, which has of course worked out so well for them thus far. I think there might have been something about getting "your little dog too!", but I'm not going to waste time re-reading any more of it. From just what dark cavern these "spartan" fantasies arise is anyone's guess...perhaps from the same pit that originally found them imagining the nic to have been "federal" and somehow sacrosanct arbitration?

That's the June 18th update. Where the July 17th one?

 

[end_of_alpa]

I understand that there is a lot of interest in the Phoenix Domicile meeting. Will there be new proposals which promotes unity?
It will be an interesting day indeed.

No. Now go throw your temper tantrum.

 

[EastUS1]

That's the June 18th update. Where the July 17th one?

 
I've no idea. Perhaps it's locked away in some double-secret-probation safe for "spartan" eyes-only somewhere. 😉

 

[EastUS1]

I understand that there is a lot of interest in the Phoenix Domicile meeting. Will there be new proposals which promotes unity?

It will be an interesting day indeed.

 
What would make it so interesting? Have you yet more erudite elocutionists just waiting for their chance to angrily gesture, froth at the mouth and tell everyone out east how much they "hate all of you'se"?

 

[Barrister]

Never know what ilfe holds. Had a good friend who got turned down by Braniff after going to their FE school. Got hired by Delta, was a check airman on the 767 for 20 years then got cancer, fought it for 7 years and then DIED at age 54.  
 
Don't blame the West. Blame NIC. He did NOT do his job. Nowhere ON THE PLANET do you put a new hire above a 17 year never furloughed guy. DOESN'T HAPPEN.
You can blame the Westies for thinking that was OK. If the shoe had been on the other foot the first thing I would have saiD when that list came out was OH ****. We have serious problem. AND YOU DID!!! 
 
For APA to help you they have to hurt themselves. Do you not see that. 
 
You know the old joke. Lawyer settles his clients case at mediation and the Defense attorney chuckles on the way out the door. The other attorney says: What is so funny? The Defense attorney says I would have paid you double if you had pushed harder. The other lawyer says well my client  would have taken half of what you paid me!!!
 
You Westies should have made a deal long ago. Silver's dicta about who represents the East from an SLI point of view will not be upheld because the issue was not before the court, not briefed, not argued.
 
One last thought. If Silver ruled that USAPA was not bound please give me your best NO BS argument as to why you think APA is bound.
 
NICDOA
NPJB

 

[EastUS1]

 

 

Don't blame the West. Blame NIC. He did NOT do his job. Nowhere ON THE PLANET do you put a new hire above a 17 year never furloughed guy. DOESN'T HAPPEN.
You can blame the Westies for thinking that was OK. If the shoe had been on the other foot the first thing I would have saiD when that list came out was OH ####. We have serious problem. AND YOU DID!!! 
 
For APA to help you they have to hurt themselves. Do you not see that. 
 
You Westies should have made a deal long ago.

 
 
Agreed.