What's new

2014 Pilot Discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.
snapthis said:
What was true years ago is true now. A leopard can't change it's spots.
 
The transcripts show a pattern of evasive behavior of USAPA VP, Stephen Bradford. 
 
Don Addington, et al. v. US Airline Pilots Association, et al.
Stephen Bradford March 19, 2009
 
A. There was a pilot who formed a website
that was called AAAPilots4fairness.com and people
signed up and used that website and out of that grew
a committee.
Q. What period of time are you talking about
here?
A. June, July.
Q. Of '07?
A. Yes.
Q. And the committee -- were you a member of
the committee?
A. No. I mean, I -- yes, I guess we called
it a committee and it related to that board because
that's where the board --
Q. Well --
A. That was the first web board that existed
that we could congregate on.
 
 
USAPAWATCH saw it as well...
 
 
USAPA has at various stages misstated law, facts, and procedural history with frequent recourse to the 'contradiction or confusion...produced by a medley of judicial phrases severed from their environment.  – The Honorable Judge Neil V. Wake[/size]
 
 
 
The following text reveals the context of the legal opinion from respected labor attorney Chris Katzenbach of Katzenbach and Khitikan. Mr. Katzenbach’s firm was interviewed in May 2007 in the early stages of Mr. Bradford’s expedition to form a new organization, an organization with the singular goal of destroying the careers of the former America West pilots. Although the letter was marked confidential, in the fanaticism to gain support of the East pilots, this material was published on a public Web site thus piercing the normally ironclad veil of attorney/client privilege. As a result of this all too common recklessness and oversight within USAPA’s founding leadership, this letter was admitted into evidence and became an important component of the Addington trial and subsequent verdict. In the discussion, Mr. Katzenbach warned Mr. Bradford by stating,
 
...the language you use in setting up your new union and how you go about talking and writing about your solutions to this award can be used against you. You need to stress [t]he positives of the new union and not dwell on the award.  Don't give the other side a large body of evidence that the sole reason for the new union is to abrogate an arbitration, the Nicolau award, that in the opinions of most judges, should be allowed to stand due to no gross negligence or fraud
 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Oh, the irony
 
 
The PHL domicile meeting was held on June 17, 2014 in the PHL Airport Marriott. This meeting location was selected in order to promote a more convenient location so more pilots could attend. Unfortunately, pilot participation was very disappointing, even though the meeting was widely publicized.


The meeting itself was very informative and included many guest speakers who took the time to keep our pilots informed and up to speed on critical issues. Please make an effort to attend future meetings in order to remain as up to date as possible on all of the issues that affect your careers.


3% Issue


Grievance Committee member John Karras gave an update on the rationale behind the dismissal of our court case in Western Pennsylvania, which sought to vacate the Arbitration Award denying annual 3% raises to the pilots commencing on May 1, 2010. It should be noted that your PHL reps have always believed this was a very difficult case and we considered it a long shot at best. It is important to understand, in the absence of fraud and a few other rare situations, Federal Courts will allow an Arbitrator’s award to stand as binding on the parties even if an arbitrator “just got it wrong.”
 
^^^^^^^^^^^^
Oh, the irony
The Arbitration under ALPA was a private arbitration that lacked any standing outside of the ALPA constitution. The only binding nature was on ALPA and its legal requriments under its constitution. It was not required by the RLA, judicial order, or any statutory requirement. The Ninth Circuit said as much. The conditions of utilizing it were never realized, the union that owed fealty to it decertified, and subsequently a new seniority integration to be conducted under MB in the MOU/MTA was negotiated and ratified by the union members. The nature of it being binding was brought to the courts by US Airways in the nature of the DJ suit, and the court found indeed it was not binding. The appeal was withdrawn and the case and the authorization it granted USAPA now stands. The membership voted for the MOU/MTA that abandoned it was challenged in court as DFR by the party they voted 98%+ for it, they lost and the agreeement was found free of any DFR.

Please don't let the facts get in your way.
 
snapthis said:
"FO Roghair communicated that the protocol agreement for seniority integration should be complete and that the only major barriers have been superfluous and unacceptable USAPA demands, including:

Obligating APA to pay post-single carrier USAPA bills, including costs of its current headquarters
Maintaining USAPA's independent operation authority throughout the JCBA and SLI process
Paying for ongoing litigation expenses in Addington and any subsequent DFR cases
Recognizing USAPA as a party to the protocol agreement even after USAPA ceases to be the certified bargaining representative (contrary to its own position in the Addington litigation, the judge's ruling in that case and the specific language of the MOU)
These are not commitments APA is willing to entertain and are what brought seniority protocol negotiations to a halt."

"While APA will be the bargaining representative and will not formally agree to USAPA party status, USAPA may continue as an organization, with a board and national officers, albeit at their own expense."

Lawsuits will be self-funded. No more dues money will be available, therefore, I wish them luck in their fundraising endeavours.
As in the case of the MidWest Express flight attendants, even if USAPA is extinguished as the CBA, independant class status will be retained. If that is broken into East and West by some unforseen proccess, I imgagine it will be all the better for East pilots as they will benefit in the time it takes to be settled in court, and the only DFR the West can cry about is against their own committee by whatever method it is elected.

By the way their is plenty of money to see this through. Enjoy the dry heat I suppose is the best advice, since that will be the scenery for a long time to come. Look how long the AOL BS tied things up in litigation. Enjoy it for the next 5 or 6 years.
 
snapthis said:
Jamie, your obsession with  West pilots getting a seat at the table is very telling. Your fear of having a third party such as arbitrator is very telling.
The APA's update is very telling.
 
Nobody trusts USAPA/Usapians
There is no fear. There is a legal ruling from Judge Silver.
Neil Roghair and Wilson keep pulling ideas from their assets than have no legal standing.
Just because Roghair runs his mouth about something means nothing. Wilder will set him straight.
Another big east bid rolling in. Eric Auxier will live the real life Can't take the Heat in The Desert for years to come.
 
GorgeousGeorge said:
As in the case of the MidWest Express flight attendants, even if USAPA is extinguished as the CBA, independant class status will be retained. If that is broken into East and West by some unforseen proccess, I imgagine it will be all the better for East pilots as they will benefit in the time it takes to be settled in court, and the only DFR the West can cry about is against their own committee by whatever method it is elected.By the way their is plenty of money to see this through. Enjoy the dry heat I suppose is the best advice, since that will be the scenery for a long time to come. Look how long the AOL BS tied things up in litigation. Enjoy it for the next 5 or 6 years.
I feel like I'm addressing a Manson/Claxon Kool-Aid drinking Jonestown groupie. First of all, I am very familiar with, helped fund and attended both DFR trials. I'm familiar with the facts, the deception, the evasion, the corruption, the dishonesty, the hypocrisy, the knavery, the indecency, the trickery and venality of those known as Usapians.

Drink in moderation, GG. 😉
Cheers!l
 
snapthis said:
I feel like I'm addressing a Manson/Claxon Kool-Aid drinking Jonestown groupie. First of all, I am very familiar with, helped fund and attended both DFR trials. I'm familiar with the facts, the deception, the evasion, the corruption, the dishonesty, the hypocrisy, the knavery, the indecency, the trickery and venality of those known as Usapians.
 
 
"First of all, I am very familiar with, helped fund and attended both DFR trials." It logically follows that you should have some inkling of what those produced, as well as how much time it's taken for your side to achieve absolutely nothing...? Per the rest; perhaps another loudly shouted fantasy of "This is sparta!" would best serve instead, while again having your "army" proclaiming all about how the mighty "Shield of Leonidas" is "protecting" everyone. Just relax and have fun in PHX, while the east system bids keep coming along nicely.
 
I'd be honestly curious to hear exactly how you envision all of this mess to finally end and what the environment will truly look like for the west when it ever does? It's amazing to me that you've apparently not yet figured out just how badly your bunch have screwed yourselves.
 
snapthis said:
I feel like I'm addressing a Manson/Claxon Kool-Aid drinking Jonestown groupie. First of all, I am very familiar with, helped fund and attended both DFR trials. I'm familiar with the facts, the deception, the evasion, the corruption, the dishonesty, the hypocrisy, the knavery, the indecency, the trickery and venality of those known as Usapians.

Drink in moderation, GG. 😉
Cheers!l
The facts and the law are what they are, your vision of it is the one obviously skewed by bias. As far as the pejoratives you mention, well that opinion is probably equally expressed toward the AOL/Snap Koolaid colony as well by those your hurl them at. So tit for tat, eh?
 
Roghair better come to his senses.
Roghair and the APA will be accountable to McCaskill Bond. The very legislation enacted to prevent them from running roughshod over other pilots.
William Wilder will school Roghair and his pal Wilson.
Meanwhile, new bids will open and close at AA and Airways east. Phoenix? Not so much.
Ferguson has ensured that outcome. For years.
SNAPTHIS has funded the very builder of the corral known as PHX. Leonidas has built a rather impressive pen for its membership.
Snapthat...........
 
snapthis said:
The West class does have legal rights and USAPA will not be permitted to speak for us during negotiations.
To have legal rights one must have a law, a judge order, or be a party to a contract. West pilots have none. The "West Merger Committee" is a legal fiction, figment, and fantasy...
 
Marty Harper, Eric Ferguson, Koontz and Kevin Horner have allowed the massive east attrition to roll on. Leonidas has utterly failed in its mission. It's formation spelled doom for west pilots.
 
Claxon said:
Marty Harper, Eric Ferguson, Koontz and Kevin Horner have allowed the massive east attrition to roll on. Leonidas has utterly failed in its mission. It's formation spelled doom for west pilots.
Yes, but the West will take a double or nothing bet for as long as Marty keeps offering it....

Well maybe not all of them.... My trips through PHX show a strange disunity of tie compliance.
 
snapthis said:
The West class does have legal rights and USAPA will not be permitted to speak for us during negotiations.
You, are a USAPA member, domiciled in PHX. Nothing more.
The more you say otherwise, the more you announce to the world you are one of Marty's sheep who believe that tired story he tells.
 
GorgeousGeorge said:
The Arbitration under ALPA was a private arbitration that lacked any standing outside of the ALPA constitution. The only binding nature was on ALPA and its legal requriments under its constitution. It was not required by the RLA, judicial order, or any statutory requirement. The Ninth Circuit said as much. The conditions of utilizing it were never realized, the union that owed fealty to it decertified, and subsequently a new seniority integration to be conducted under MB in the MOU/MTA was negotiated and ratified by the union members. The nature of it being binding was brought to the courts by US Airways in the nature of the DJ suit, and the court found indeed it was not binding. The appeal was withdrawn and the case and the authorization it granted USAPA now stands. The membership voted for the MOU/MTA that abandoned it was challenged in court as DFR by the party they voted 98%+ for it, they lost and the agreeement was found free of any DFR.Please don't let the facts get in your way.
The fundamental misunderstanding of labor law has been at the root of the failings of Leonidas. Ferguson, Koontz, Doyal and Horner have a fatal misunderstanding of RLA law which Marty Harper uses to fleece west pilots time and again. The Liberty ties signify a pilot who is throwing good money after bad. Every time you see a wearer of a Liberty tie, you are seeing a sheep, following Marty. It is honestly pathetic.
Those ties are like bells that sheep wear.
 
snapthis said:
I feel like I'm addressing a Manson/Claxon Kool-Aid drinking Jonestown groupie. First of all, I am very familiar with, helped fund and attended both DFR trials. I'm familiar with the facts, the deception, the evasion, the corruption, the dishonesty, the hypocrisy, the knavery, the indecency, the trickery and venality of those known as Usapians.
Drink in moderation, GG. 😉
Cheers!l
That doesn't make you a Judge.
 
Jamie, I'll let others be the judge of Bradford's video deposition comments concerning merger talks with the APA starting at 8:46...No West pilot involvement and what happens to funds after the APA takes over.
 
I'll also let others be the judge starting at 9:56 about the founding of USAPA and majority rule.
 
 
http://leonidas.cactuspilots.us/West_Pilot_DFR_DJ/Steve_Bradford_Video_Deposition_Part_One.mpg
 
Deposition day 2:
http://leonidas.cactuspilots.us/West_Pilot_DFR_DJ/Steve_Bradford_Video_Deposition_Part_Two.mpg
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Latest posts

Back
Top