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2014 Pilot Discussion

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electricjet98 said:
 ...But at this time, simply too many variables heading our way.

Besides, with all of you easties grabbing those A330 left seats, that will just be that many more below us when we do decide to make the move!
 
LOL!   😱
 
The "spartan"..umm..."mind" has always made for an interesting study. "simply too many variables heading our way" would seem to offer up at least a slightly rational awareness of the always-uncertain nature of the future, yet that's oddly and immediately followed by "...that will just be that many more below us when we do decide to make the move!" and even "LOL!", which would presumably indicate a still-existent, if purely faith-based fantasy of the nic...?
 
Merely curious here; what's the current "T-minus" countdown clock set for "when we do decide to make the move!", and exactly what deus ex machina is currently in play, or even now imagined, that sustains that particular fantasy? "all of you easties grabbing those A330 left seats" is the actual reality. What future circumstances do you envision that will allow you to do so, especially inclusive of the notion "that will just be that many more below us when we do decide to make the move!"...?
 
electricjet98 said:
.....but most simply want to see how thing "shake-out" with this next round of SLI...
..... that will just be that many more below us when we do decide to make the move!
 
?...?...? How can anyone juggle even just those two without dropping one of them? 😉
 
electricjet98 said:
I really don't think senior west pilots are all that concerned about your widebodies. A few might take it immediately if available, but most simply want to see how thing "shake-out" with this next round of SLI. If you've done it all of your career, commuting is something you've just gotten used to. Most of us feel that IF we were to ever consider flying out of PHL/CLT, it would also involve a move rather than commuting. The money is nice...quality of life is nicer, and I just don't see commuting as even remotely possible if one want quality of life. If we are ever allowed to drop to forty hours a month, it might be worth considering. But at this time, simply too many variables heading our way.

Besides, with all of you easties grabbing those A330 left seats, that will just be that many more below us when we do decide to make the move!
 
LOL!   😱
EJ,

Senior, middle, junior are stuck in PHX with no movement which means you are frozen in place on the list. While the senior are enjoying their weekends and holidays off, the middle and bottom are again working another holiday with no end in sight.

The Nic is dead, there is no doubt what so ever. The MOU cemented that fact. Take your place on a combined date of hire list and enjoy the movement we have on the east, or spend the next three years stuck in your position working weekends and holidays. You will be much better off with a DOH combined list going into the SLI with AA then without.

I again got vacation in June, July (14 days off started July 3rd) and I have 10 days off in August. That will all change in the October bid, which is a good thing (not to mention a 35% raise)! 🙂

You too could be benefiting from our attrition, not frozen in time waiting and hoping for something that will never happen.

Skier
 
flyingskier said:
EJ,Senior, middle, junior are stuck in PHX with no movement which means you are frozen in place on the list. While the senior are enjoying their weekends and holidays off, the middle and bottom are again working another holiday with no end in sight.The Nic is dead, there is no doubt what so ever. The MOU cemented that fact. Take your place on a combined date of hire list and enjoy the movement we have on the east, or spend the next three years stuck in your position working weekends and holidays. You will be much better off with a DOH combined list going into the SLI with AA then without.I again got vacation in June, July (14 days off started July 3rd) and I have 10 days off in August. That will all change in the October bid, which is a good thing (not to mention a 35% raise)! 🙂You too could be benefiting from our attrition, not frozen in time waiting and hoping for something that will never happen.Skier
Guess who's driving the boat, skier.


Seniority Integration Protocol: The Facts
posted on June 23, 2014 17:23
Seniority Integration Protocol: The Facts

You may have seen APA's seniority integration protocol proposal last week and a subsequent USAPA Merger Committee blast accusing the APA Seniority Integration Committee of blindsiding them with a "regressive" proposal. Although we have been patient in an attempt to forge an acceptable agreement, it is now time to set the record straight on some of the misrepresentations contained in the USAPA Merger Committee blast.

To be blunt, USAPA's version of events is fiction. USAPA leadership specifically and directly solicited this latest protocol proposal from the Seniority Integration Committee. USAPA's merger counsel was also briefed on the likely content of the protocol document several days before receipt. USAPA's abject failure to communicate these facts erodes the very foundation of trust necessary for any further negotiations. It is now apparent to us, just as it was to Judge Silver in the Addington v. USAPA DFR decision, that USAPA is using these tactics, including reneging on its bargain under the MOU and litigating the McCaskill-Bond process in court, with the express goal of delaying the NMB single-carrier finding.

Last week, before we passed our latest protocol proposal, APA Vice President FO Neil Roghair was invited to speak at USAPA domicile meetings in Charlotte and Philadelphia. The APA talking points were simple:

APA wants a smooth and amicable integration with the pilots of US Airways.
APA is committed to the process that we all agreed to and ratified in the MOU.
APA will take its duty of fair representation to all American Airlines pilots seriously.
FO Roghair communicated that the protocol agreement for seniority integration should be complete and that the only major barriers have been superfluous and unacceptable USAPA demands, including:

Obligating APA to pay post-single carrier USAPA bills, including costs of its current headquarters
Maintaining USAPA's independent operation authority throughout the JCBA and SLI process
Paying for ongoing litigation expenses in Addington and any subsequent DFR cases
Recognizing USAPA as a party to the protocol agreement even after USAPA ceases to be the certified bargaining representative (contrary to its own position in the Addington litigation, the judge's ruling in that case and the specific language of the MOU)
These are not commitments APA is willing to entertain and are what brought seniority protocol negotiations to a halt.

As FO Roghair stated, APA does not take its duty of fair representation lightly. Contrary to USAPA's assertions otherwise, and at their suggestion, APA has proposed that the West pilots be afforded the opportunity to petition a neutral arbitrator for the right to a separate and independent merger committee in the seniority integration process. USAPA, the company and APA would have the right to object or support a West merger committee. The arbitrator would then rule on the issue, and the process would move forward based on the arbitrator's final and binding decision on the West merger committee's status.

At the CLT meeting, a member of the USAPA Merger Committee briefed those in attendance on why the committee found the prospect of a separate West merger committee acceptable. And, upon hearing APA's proposal, the USAPA secretary-treasurer remarked that this proposal came directly from USAPA. This highlights that the USAPA Merger Committee's blast, dated June 20, 2014, is entirely inconsistent with statements made by USAPA leadership to APA.

The USAPA national officers specifically requested that APA disregard the USAPA transition and settlement proposals and present a "seniority protocol only" proposal to USAPA so that we can all point to a seniority integration proposal that represents the path forward. Thus, we made our protocol proposal last week at USAPA's specific request. It could not have surprised them.

Regardless of the circumstances that resulted in APA's passing the protocol document, the proposal was fully consistent with requests and understandings agreed to by USAPA's leadership and communicated to pilots at the CLT and PHL meetings. It meets every legitimate "ask" from USAPA in the seniority protocol. Among other things:

The proposal guaranteed that the USAPA Merger Committee would continue in its current form after APA becomes the single bargaining representative. The USAPA committee would remain completely autonomous, and APA would formally agree not to interfere with its staffing, decision-making, operations or funding. Who gives direction to that committee is not within APA's control.
The proposal accepted USAPA's position that APA not have the unilateral right to appoint a West merger committee but the West pilots be required to seek representation through final and binding arbitration.
The proposal accepted USAPA's procedure for the selection of the seniority Arbitration Board.
While the proposal provided that the company and APA would be the only parties to the protocol after APA becomes the single bargaining representative which is consistent with the RLA and the duty of fair representation and has always been APA's position APA would formally commit that it had no legal authority to make any modification to the protected status of the USAPA Merger Committee.
Nothing in the APA proposal was a surprise to USAPA or its merger counsel. The only written additions to our latest proposal were to codify the previous understanding that USAPA would drop its litigation in federal district court asking for an alternative process to MOU paragraph 10 and to provide that USAPA drop its opposition at the NMB to the single-carrier determination.

The day after our counsel transmitted the protocol proposal, the USAPA Merger Committee released its blast to USAPA membership, in which they claimed our proposal blindsided them and was unacceptable and regressive. They listed five points of deep concern.

Their first four points object to APA suggesting that everyone follow the process spelled out in MOU paragraph 10 the process approved 11-0 by the USAPA Board of Pilot Representatives and ratified by three-quarters of the USAPA membership. USAPA's position that complying with a signed agreement (the MOU) is somehow optional can only be described as beyond the pale. At no time did USAPA suggest that any other party to the MOU could unilaterally disregard its provisions.
The fifth point of objection is that APA is asserting the right to change and control their merger committee. That is false. The very premise of our protocol proposal is that the merger committees, including specifically the USAPA Merger Committee, will be autonomous and independent after the certification of a single bargaining representative. While APA will be the bargaining representative and will not formally agree to USAPA party status, USAPA may continue as an organization, with a board and national officers, albeit at their own expense.
This seniority integration process will be difficult and complex. APA is deeply committed and obligated to an autonomous USAPA Merger Committee. APA also has a duty to guarantee a process that will give the West pilots a fair opportunity to make their case in arbitration.

The APA Seniority Integration Committee made our proposal public for simple reasons. The proposal reflects every commitment we have made to USAPA with regard to the seniority integration process and contradicts false assertions being made by USAPA in an effort to delay a single-carrier finding by the NMB. It is time to agree to a protocol before this affects the ability of APA and USAPA to move forward in areas of mutual interest, such as the JCBA.

Please forward this email to every US Airways pilot you know and tell them that APA is committed to the fair process that we all signed up for.

Posted in: Information Hotline
 
Enjoy the ride. 😉
 
east pilots should be just as committed to seeing the TWA, Reno, and Air Cal pilots represented with as much concern as the APA has with the west.
In other words, if the APA feels west pilots are a separate group from east USAirways pilots, the same argument can be made to break the aforementioned out of the APA and revisit their seniority.
Your choice Roghair.
 
snapthis said:
Guess who's driving the boat, skier.


Seniority Integration Protocol: The Facts
posted on June 23, 2014 17:23
Seniority Integration Protocol: The Facts

You may have seen APA's seniority integration protocol proposal last week and a subsequent USAPA Merger Committee blast accusing the APA Seniority Integration Committee of blindsiding them with a "regressive" proposal. Although we have been patient in an attempt to forge an acceptable agreement, it is now time to set the record straight on some of the misrepresentations contained in the USAPA Merger Committee blast.

To be blunt, USAPA's version of events is fiction. USAPA leadership specifically and directly solicited this latest protocol proposal from the Seniority Integration Committee. USAPA's merger counsel was also briefed on the likely content of the protocol document several days before receipt. USAPA's abject failure to communicate these facts erodes the very foundation of trust necessary for any further negotiations. It is now apparent to us, just as it was to Judge Silver in the Addington v. USAPA DFR decision, that USAPA is using these tactics, including reneging on its bargain under the MOU and litigating the McCaskill-Bond process in court, with the express goal of delaying the NMB single-carrier finding.

Last week, before we passed our latest protocol proposal, APA Vice President FO Neil Roghair was invited to speak at USAPA domicile meetings in Charlotte and Philadelphia. The APA talking points were simple:

APA wants a smooth and amicable integration with the pilots of US Airways.
APA is committed to the process that we all agreed to and ratified in the MOU.
APA will take its duty of fair representation to all American Airlines pilots seriously.
FO Roghair communicated that the protocol agreement for seniority integration......................

Obligating APA to pay post-single carrier USAPA bills, including costs of its current headquarters
Maintaining USAPA's independent operation authority throughout the JCBA and SLI process
Paying for ongoing litigation expenses in Addington and any subsequent DFR cases
Recognizing USAPA as a party to the protocol agreement even after USAPA ceases to be the certified bargaining representative ...............................

As FO Roghair stated, APA does not take its duty of fair representation lightly. Contrary to USAPA's assertions otherwise, and at their suggestion, APA has proposed that the West pilots be afforded the opportunity to petition a neutral arbitrator for the right to a separate and independent merger ........................

Posted in: Information Hotline
 
Enjoy the ride. 😉
Roghair.png

APA Vice President
"First Officer Neil Roghair, 52, was hired by American Airlines in 1999. He has flown the Boeing 737, 777 and S80. He’s currently assigned to fly the Boeing 777 internationally.
At the Allied Pilots Association, First Officer Roghair founded and chaired the military affairs committee. He also began serving on the union’s negotiating committee in 2009 and was elected chair the next year, leading APA through contentious negotiations before and during American Airlines Chapter 11 bankruptcy restructuring. He also oversaw negotiations with US Airways management as part of the pending merger with that carrier."
 
Rest assured snap the liberty tie hawker, roghair, (hired by american airlines February 1999) is not interested in date of hire or slotting, he is interested in the roghair placement on the seniority list.  80 percent of the East pilots will be gone by the time the seniority and merger is complete, 80 percent of the current west pilots will be active. 
 
"Ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee." 
It's a Donne deal
 
apa wants west showing up at the table with the following comparison data;;;
 
american pilots, wide bodies, bases, attrition, career expectations.
 
East pilots, wide bodies, bases, attrition, career expectations.
 
west pilots, PHX, freeze, falling-off and furloughs .
 
USAPA or apa west?
 
 
It's to bad the west pilots believed Ferguson and Koontz, all the wasted money on those stupid ties, wake up west pilots dump these two and AOL.
 
Remember this post I made in February in response to you?

snapthis
Posted 16 February 2014 - 12:51 PM
snapthis
Veteran

Registered Member

3478 posts
luvthe9, on 16 Feb 2014 - 10:45 AM, said:
"You are so right all the AA guys I know feel the west should go ahead of their own pilots and I hear they want to give them all wide body slots, after all AA have always been generous when it come to merges."

My response then:
AA guys? You would not know Neil Roghair if he was standing right beside you.

My resonse today:
AA guys? You would not know Neil Roghair if he was standing right beside you.

Read between the lines on the update I posted earlier.....refer to #9890
 
snapthis said:
Remember this post I made in February in response to you?snapthisPosted 16 February 2014 - 12:51 PMsnapthisVeteranRegistered Member3478 postsluvthe9, on 16 Feb 2014 - 10:45 AM, said:"You are so right all the AA guys I know feel the west should go ahead of their own pilots and I hear they want to give them all wide body slots, after all AA have always been generous when it come to merges."My response then:AA guys? You would not know Neil Roghair if he was standing right beside you.My resonse today:AA guys? You would not know Neil Roghair if he was standing right beside you.Read between the lines on the update I posted earlier.....refer to #9890
"Read between the lines".... That's just like "let's implicitly assume", except a more desperate version.
 
Tony Anger
"What is funny to me is that 1guitarflyer thinks we stole his seniority...even after we saved his career. You now work at a stable airline...and one, I might ad, that didn't kill 146 of the passengers...you know with all that expeirence they had. I guess being laid off for 12 years "learns you lots"! We all have the same hire date scooter, Sept 5, 2005. You brought your status and your, ahem, talent to the same table we did. The abitrator has spoken and we have lost nothing...and you know it. But no worries young man, I'll be nice to you in my cockpit...and maybe even do a walk-a-round for you once in a while."
tony anger
 
 
 
Claxon said:
east pilots should be just as committed to seeing the TWA, Reno, and Air Cal pilots represented with as much concern as the APA has with the west.
In other words, if the APA feels west pilots are a separate group from east USAirways pilots, the same argument can be made to break the aforementioned out of the APA and revisit their seniority.
Your choice Roghair.
Yes, east pilots will support the TWA, Air Cal and Reno pilots after the APA stapled them. Looking forward to years of litigation, good foe AA and us. To bad about PHX.
 
Claxon said:
Roghair.png

APA Vice President
"First Officer Neil Roghair, 52, was hired by American Airlines in 1999. He has flown the Boeing 737, 777 and S80. He’s currently assigned to fly the Boeing 777 internationally.
At the Allied Pilots Association, First Officer Roghair founded and chaired the military affairs committee. He also began serving on the union’s negotiating committee in 2009 and was elected chair the next year, leading APA through contentious negotiations before and during American Airlines Chapter 11 bankruptcy restructuring. He also oversaw negotiations with US Airways management as part of the pending merger with that carrier."
 
Rest assured snap the liberty tie hawker, roghair, (hired by american airlines February 1999) is not interested in date of hire or slotting, he is interested in the roghair placement on the seniority list.  80 percent of the East pilots will be gone by the time the seniority and merger is complete, 80 percent of the current west pilots will be active. 
 
"Ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee." 
It's a Donne deal


Bingo!
 
Phoenix said:
"Read between the lines".... That's just like "let's implicitly assume", except a more desperate version.
No worries or desperation here, only optimism and sympathy for those who follow USapians. 😉

You'll figure out sooner or later who is on the "island"

Meet your new best friend, Wilson. :lol:View attachment 10299
 
The last union heroes for the west pilots, alpa. 
 
west pilots, photo shop roghair in place of the stephen picture if it makes you feel more comfy. 
 
 
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