2014 Pilot Discussion
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767one said:
That's a perfect visual for that poor fellow's condition Bob. 😉
On completely different notions: I hope all's very well with you and yours, and that "Ivan's" finest "commie" tractor's still serving well sir. 🙂 I ran across this one during an Amazon buying spree, and guardedly suggest it might be worth a watch, given that it (however spotty a work in some ways) seemed to catch the "flavor", if you will, of the times and circumstances in Finland during the Soviets' attack: https://www.google.com/search?q=The+Winter+War+movie&client=firefox-a&hs=AHj&rls=org.mozilla:en-US😱fficial&channel=sb&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=_MWgU9LUAYqqyATgj4DgAw&ved=0CDwQsAQ&biw=1920&bih=919
diamondcutter
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Today flt 1892 phx - clt. DH crew with 35 none revs in and out of uniform walks up to the checking gate and ask the agent LOUDLY , " are there any jump seaters today, cause I'm not having any east scabs in my cockpit today. WTF really!!! Cheif pilot should meet him at the gate today when it lands at 2:25. There are witnesses !!!
snapthis
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AOL 6/18 update
As we wait for the NMB to rule on “Single Carrier Status” (SCS) Leonidas, LLC will provide its viewpoint on the legal landscape as we continue to defend against the multiple and unrelenting assaults on our careers and seniority. A finding of SCS will quickly eliminate USAPA’s role as our collective bargaining agent (CBA), and thereafter it will be legally barred from representing anyone. The Allied Pilots Association (APA) will become the CBA for all American Airlines pilots, just as USAPA became the CBA for all US Airways pilots when it was certified by the NMB. Although our legal activity has slowed recently, our fight is far from over. It was clear that shift in strategy was required in order to meet the recent developments in our quest for justice.
Over the past six years, a certain segment of former US Airways pilots have used USAPA as a weapon, engaging in a relentless campaign to denigrate and intimidate the former America West pilots in order to justify their quest to jettison their obligations from 2005. USAPA’s singular goal has been to substitute their own contrived seniority list in place of an agreed upon arbitrated decision arrived at after an arbitrators careful consideration of all the facts and equities of our unique merger situation. West pilot unity has provided a robust defense against an immoral union supported by management.
While we didn't pick this fight, defending ourselves has been worth the effort. Had we not stood up to USAPA the West pilots would have been stapled long ago and there would be no need for APA and the company to consider West pilot interest in a fair SLI process. USAPA’s desperate efforts litigating in Washington DC, and opposing SCS are aimed at keeping the West pilots out of the process at all costs because our presence will prevent USAPA from unilaterally dictating what US Airways seniority list will become part of the integrated seniority list.
As the new minority, USAPA has chosen to turn its tactics against APA and New American with multiple legal actions on multiple fronts designed to prolong its reign and exclude the past and future seniority interests of former America West pilots. USAPA's primary disagreement with APA over the protocol revolves around the inclusion of the former AWA pilots as a separate party to the seniority integration. USAPA also disagrees that APA will have absolute control over the process and the ability to amend the agreements as APA and the company see fit. This was USAPA's very own strategy when it assumed the role as the collective bargaining agent from ALPA. Today, the “shoe is on the other foot” and USAPA leaders do not like the idea that APA may do unto them as USAPA has done unto the West Pilots.
Left to their own devices, USAPA's officers will continue to interfere with the APA, the company, and the fair representation rights for the former America West pilots. A frequently heard question is, “what will happen to USAPA’s treasury fund?” We know West pilots agree with our opinion that it must be promptly returned to the pilots that were forced to pay it. It is almost certain that, without ANOTHER lawsuit, USAPA and its officers will attempt to use West dues money to advance East interests. However, USAPA and its officers will not be afforded any protection under federal labor law. It will be up to the former America West Pilots to ensure this does not happen. For the first time, the USAPA officers will be exposed to personal liability for their actions. Should USAPA continue representing any US Airways pilot after decertification, they will individually and jointly be in contempt of Judge Silver’s order because she clearly ruled (at USAPA's urging) that USAPA could no longer represent any pilots after decertification. True to form, USAPA has already filed a lawsuit in Washington to get the D.C. court to render an opinion opposing the one they convinced Judge Silver to deliver in Arizona. Never assume that USAPA will be consistent or make ethical choices.
Our funding strategy is ever-evolving to meet future challenges. The America West pilots have done an outstanding job voluntarily contributing to pay our past legal obligations, but the fight will continue as long as USAPA’s officers are able to interfere OR the APA decides to withdraw support for a separate West merger committee. Possible legal actions going forward to defend the former America West seniority rights are expected to include the Ninth Circuit appeal, possible contempt charges against USAPA’s officers, and recovering dues money from USAPA. Additionally and more importantly is the funding for a West merger committee. The APA has tepidly committed to nothing more than a few vague references found in the DC litigation documents such as, “[After APA is certified as the single bargaining representative]...'it would assume responsibility for the structure of the pre-merger groups' merger committees consistent with its legal obligations, including the discretion to provide for the separate participation of the West Pilots in the seniority integration process if APA so chooses.'” In order to ensure a fair process, there must be a level playing field, but even this has not been guaranteed and we must be prepared to fund expenses and litigation in real time as the need arises, potentially awaiting repayment of these expenditures in the future.
To make the point clear, the APA and the company believe that three parties are required to have a fair and equitable M/B process under the terms of the merger. The parties are defined as the legacy AA pilots, and the East and West US Airways pilots. For this process to be fair, the West Merger committee must be afforded conditions of participation equal with the other parties. This includes FPL, time off, positive space travel when needed, legal representation, and funding. While we expect some level of funding from the APA for a West merger committee, history indicates more will be required. At the beginning of the 2005 merger, West Pilots were fortunate to have a separate West Merger Fund, which exceeded 1.5 million dollars, to supplement ALPA funds. We can expect this merger will cost substantially more due to its size, complexity, and a decade of inflation. At least in the beginning of this process, we should be prepared to fund our own committee one hundred percent.
Jeff Freund, our former AWA Merger Committee attorney, was instrumental in the Nicolau proceedings. Mr. Freund recently rejoined the West efforts to obtain a fair integration at the New American Airlines. Over the last eight years Mr. Freund negotiated, or helped obtain largely favorable terms for his clients in every major airline merger. Mr. Freund will provide the best representation in our upcoming SLI and is now on retainer to represent the West merger committee. This was possible through the well-established record of West pilots have of supporting Leonidas financially over the years.
As we wait for the NMB to rule on “Single Carrier Status” (SCS) Leonidas, LLC will provide its viewpoint on the legal landscape as we continue to defend against the multiple and unrelenting assaults on our careers and seniority. A finding of SCS will quickly eliminate USAPA’s role as our collective bargaining agent (CBA), and thereafter it will be legally barred from representing anyone. The Allied Pilots Association (APA) will become the CBA for all American Airlines pilots, just as USAPA became the CBA for all US Airways pilots when it was certified by the NMB. Although our legal activity has slowed recently, our fight is far from over. It was clear that shift in strategy was required in order to meet the recent developments in our quest for justice.
Over the past six years, a certain segment of former US Airways pilots have used USAPA as a weapon, engaging in a relentless campaign to denigrate and intimidate the former America West pilots in order to justify their quest to jettison their obligations from 2005. USAPA’s singular goal has been to substitute their own contrived seniority list in place of an agreed upon arbitrated decision arrived at after an arbitrators careful consideration of all the facts and equities of our unique merger situation. West pilot unity has provided a robust defense against an immoral union supported by management.
While we didn't pick this fight, defending ourselves has been worth the effort. Had we not stood up to USAPA the West pilots would have been stapled long ago and there would be no need for APA and the company to consider West pilot interest in a fair SLI process. USAPA’s desperate efforts litigating in Washington DC, and opposing SCS are aimed at keeping the West pilots out of the process at all costs because our presence will prevent USAPA from unilaterally dictating what US Airways seniority list will become part of the integrated seniority list.
As the new minority, USAPA has chosen to turn its tactics against APA and New American with multiple legal actions on multiple fronts designed to prolong its reign and exclude the past and future seniority interests of former America West pilots. USAPA's primary disagreement with APA over the protocol revolves around the inclusion of the former AWA pilots as a separate party to the seniority integration. USAPA also disagrees that APA will have absolute control over the process and the ability to amend the agreements as APA and the company see fit. This was USAPA's very own strategy when it assumed the role as the collective bargaining agent from ALPA. Today, the “shoe is on the other foot” and USAPA leaders do not like the idea that APA may do unto them as USAPA has done unto the West Pilots.
Left to their own devices, USAPA's officers will continue to interfere with the APA, the company, and the fair representation rights for the former America West pilots. A frequently heard question is, “what will happen to USAPA’s treasury fund?” We know West pilots agree with our opinion that it must be promptly returned to the pilots that were forced to pay it. It is almost certain that, without ANOTHER lawsuit, USAPA and its officers will attempt to use West dues money to advance East interests. However, USAPA and its officers will not be afforded any protection under federal labor law. It will be up to the former America West Pilots to ensure this does not happen. For the first time, the USAPA officers will be exposed to personal liability for their actions. Should USAPA continue representing any US Airways pilot after decertification, they will individually and jointly be in contempt of Judge Silver’s order because she clearly ruled (at USAPA's urging) that USAPA could no longer represent any pilots after decertification. True to form, USAPA has already filed a lawsuit in Washington to get the D.C. court to render an opinion opposing the one they convinced Judge Silver to deliver in Arizona. Never assume that USAPA will be consistent or make ethical choices.
Our funding strategy is ever-evolving to meet future challenges. The America West pilots have done an outstanding job voluntarily contributing to pay our past legal obligations, but the fight will continue as long as USAPA’s officers are able to interfere OR the APA decides to withdraw support for a separate West merger committee. Possible legal actions going forward to defend the former America West seniority rights are expected to include the Ninth Circuit appeal, possible contempt charges against USAPA’s officers, and recovering dues money from USAPA. Additionally and more importantly is the funding for a West merger committee. The APA has tepidly committed to nothing more than a few vague references found in the DC litigation documents such as, “[After APA is certified as the single bargaining representative]...'it would assume responsibility for the structure of the pre-merger groups' merger committees consistent with its legal obligations, including the discretion to provide for the separate participation of the West Pilots in the seniority integration process if APA so chooses.'” In order to ensure a fair process, there must be a level playing field, but even this has not been guaranteed and we must be prepared to fund expenses and litigation in real time as the need arises, potentially awaiting repayment of these expenditures in the future.
To make the point clear, the APA and the company believe that three parties are required to have a fair and equitable M/B process under the terms of the merger. The parties are defined as the legacy AA pilots, and the East and West US Airways pilots. For this process to be fair, the West Merger committee must be afforded conditions of participation equal with the other parties. This includes FPL, time off, positive space travel when needed, legal representation, and funding. While we expect some level of funding from the APA for a West merger committee, history indicates more will be required. At the beginning of the 2005 merger, West Pilots were fortunate to have a separate West Merger Fund, which exceeded 1.5 million dollars, to supplement ALPA funds. We can expect this merger will cost substantially more due to its size, complexity, and a decade of inflation. At least in the beginning of this process, we should be prepared to fund our own committee one hundred percent.
Jeff Freund, our former AWA Merger Committee attorney, was instrumental in the Nicolau proceedings. Mr. Freund recently rejoined the West efforts to obtain a fair integration at the New American Airlines. Over the last eight years Mr. Freund negotiated, or helped obtain largely favorable terms for his clients in every major airline merger. Mr. Freund will provide the best representation in our upcoming SLI and is now on retainer to represent the West merger committee. This was possible through the well-established record of West pilots have of supporting Leonidas financially over the years.
Al Legheny
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diamondcutter said:
John Hale, V.P. Flight attended the CLT USAPA domicile meeting on Monday. Jump Seat was one subject under discussion. Both the USAPA and APA jump seat chairman were present and they stated that it was the position of both unions that the jump seat was not a weapon to be used against any individual or class of pilots.
John Hale chimed in that the company had a dim view of jump seat denial without a good cause. There have been priror cases at American where the company has disciplined a pilot for denial of jump seat without cause. There is a provision in the AA employee manual, binding on all employees unless a specific provision of the CBA states otherwise, that says employees cannot interfere with company operations. Denying a jump seat to an employee who has reason to travel for work is intefrference in company operations.
A particular pilot was very active in his denial of jump seats to a particular group and he was instructed by John Hale that his career was now in his own hands. He would promise to stop, or he would leave that office meeting without an I.D. or job. Of couse the discipline sections of the contract would apply and the pilot might get his job back in two years; or he might not....
That's kind of a hight price to pay for messing with the jump seat without a legitimate reason.
Phoenix
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After so long a time that AOL said they could not participate in a negotiation, now they triumphantly declare their participation in negotiations is absolutely necessary... even though Judge Silver denied them everything they now say the really, really, really, really.... really need.snapthis said:
They don't need anything else at all.. except your money.
nycbusdriver
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snapthis said:
IOW:
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
Phoenix
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snapthis said:
You did not post the whole Cactuspilot.com update...
Why would you cut off the most important part of the message? Why? Are you embarrassed about all the tie hocking? http://cactuspilot.com
Hmmmm... AOL is not a non-profit company... Selling ties is normal.
Buy a tie on a 14 month payment plan... how gullible are YOU?
snapthis
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You did not want ALPA speaking for you. You did not want and pilot neutrals speaking for you in 2007.Yet you want to speak for us? Why are you afraid of representation from the APA?
"The popular phrase "the shoe is on the other foot" means that a situation or circumstance has been reversed, allowing one person to experience the other person's point of view. It is believed that the saying originated in the 1800's with the phrase "the boot is on the other leg". Before the 19th century, shoes and boots were made to fit either foot. They were made in varying sizes; however one shoe could be worn on either foot. When shoes were made to fit specific feet, it would be uncomfortable to put the shoe on the wrong foot.
The phrase "the shoe is on the other foot" is used frequently today to describe the tables being turned. For example, an educator may find themselves in the role of the student if they decide to continue their education. Thus, the shoe is on the other foot, with the role that person normally assumes now being filled by someone else.
Having the shoe on the other foot can also be equated to the phrase, "having a taste of one's own medicine". This phrase likely derived from the terrible taste of some medications prescribed by doctors in early times. Thus is if they tasted the medicine they had prescribed, they knew what their patient had to endure. In this case, the shoe is on the other foot.
Many historians believe that the phrase originated in Great Britain. I have discovered during my research of popular phrases, that many commonly used phrases were thought to be originated in this area. As with nearly all of the phrases I have researched there are conflicting reports as to when this phrase actually came into use. Some believe that it was in the 18th century, while others believe it was the 19th century. I have found that discovering origins of phrases is not particularly easy. Unless there is documented proof of origin, the dates and location information are merely speculation.
It is my opinion that each of us should attempt to wear the shoe on the other foot from time to time. This will allow us to view the word from a different perspective and understand what others are experiencing better."
Angela Russell
luvthe9
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Ah, give the guy a break he is probably showing off for his girlfriend or something, I'm sure he knows the only scabs are on the west side, he has come to the realization that he has been lied to by Ferguson and Koontz and has thrown away an awful large amount money for nothing.diamondcutter said:
He could be on a wide body now or be moving up the ladder but chose to stay on the " island" in PHX, boy, AOL has really hurt the west pilots careers. Remember APA is stalling to capture the attrition on their side which is also good for us. Let's hope this drags on forever, I bet those ties will be selling for over a grand soon. I would be embarrassed to be seen in one of them, you look at the person and say to yourself what an idiot.
luvthe9
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"According to our reports, on Day One of Wye River, Jeff Freund warned the West MEC that if USAPA won, the West risked losing everything. He urged reaching an agreement. He was gone on Day Two. We won’t address his motivation for leaving. As Jeff Freund observed in his rebuttal to the East MEC lawsuit, the NIC was not in stone. And the loss of ALPA put it in real trouble. At least ALPA had the obligation, through the ALPA Merger Policy, to attempt to get the company to use the NIC Award."
"Our former MEC and our union leadership played a very high stakes game of poker by not dealing at Wye River. Freund was right, we were risking everything…..and right now, it looks like we lost. They need to take responsibility for that."
"Jeff Freund is a top-notch lawyer. We have no doubt that he told our MEC the truth about how negotiable the NIC really was. The question is: why didn’t CJ, Bendett, et al, listen? We figure that they either didn’t believe him or after all their hairy-chested resolutions and hotlines, they were afraid to back down. What good are attorneys if you don’t take their advice?"
When will you west clowns wake up? Freund just wants your money.
"Our former MEC and our union leadership played a very high stakes game of poker by not dealing at Wye River. Freund was right, we were risking everything…..and right now, it looks like we lost. They need to take responsibility for that."
"Jeff Freund is a top-notch lawyer. We have no doubt that he told our MEC the truth about how negotiable the NIC really was. The question is: why didn’t CJ, Bendett, et al, listen? We figure that they either didn’t believe him or after all their hairy-chested resolutions and hotlines, they were afraid to back down. What good are attorneys if you don’t take their advice?"
When will you west clowns wake up? Freund just wants your money.
snapthis
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