2014 Pilot Discussion

[snapthis]

Interesting appearance of negotiations..
 
Let's see if their proposal is any different than their court filed request to have unilateral control upon SCS.....

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Look up, Phoenix. You might get a clue.

 

[Phoenix]

Yeah, another B.S. attempt to circumvent MB.  🙄

 

[Phoenix]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Look up, Phoenix. You might get a clue.

 
 
The APA isn't hocking ties and begging for loyal donations.... can they still be a legitimate organization?  You should be able to spare a clue...

 

[snapthis]

Yeah, another B.S. attempt to circumvent MB.  🙄

It took all but a minute to read the proposal and make that determination? Ask your attorney, it's called billable hours.

You'd be a discount attorney, hey, you get what you paid for 😉

 

[Claxon]

History lesson for the west.
 
"In its continuing effort to obtain a compromise on the seniority integration issue,
ALPA directed the East and West ALPA MEC’s to send their respective representatives
to negotiations sponsored by ALPA National at Wye River, Maryland. These
negotiations continued from January 31, 2008 through February 8, 2008, in what was
referred to as a “lock down” environment. These negotiations were terminated when
the West MEC’s representatives communicated that they were still subject to a May,
2007, West MEC resolution, which mandated that:
the AWA MEC will not engage in any negotiations which amend, alter or
otherwise change the outcome of the Nicolau award, including any joint
negotiations of the America West pilot’s seniority rights already ordered
in the award in subsequent contract negotiations.
(Exhibit F).
14. ALPA responded to the West MEC’s intransigence by reassuring East pilots that,
under both the Transition Agreement and ALPA Merger Policy, the Nicolau list could
not be imposed without the agreement of the East MEC and the East pilots to a single
collective bargaining agreement. Moreover, the East MEC and East pilots were assured
that ALPA would not interfere with their democratic rights to exercise an effective veto
Case 2:08-cv-01633-NVW Document 200 Filed 02/17/2009 Page 5 of 10
over implementation of the Nicolau list. For example, in a letter dated March 14, 2008, to US Airways pilots, ALPA President John Prater stated:
The Transition Agreement requires that the parties maintain separate
operations until the implementation of a new collective bargaining
agreement covering the entire airline. Both the Transition Agreement and
ALPA Merger Policy prohibit US Airways from utilizing the single
seniority list until we reach a single agreement.
***
[ALPA] Merger Policy does not contain a timetable for completing the
single agreement. …
***
Some members have asked what will happen if pilots from one group or
the other sue the Association either to block implementation or to force
implementation of the Nicolau award. I repeat – there is no required
timetable for implementation of the award. That only happens with a
single collective bargaining agreement."

 

[snapthis]

History lesson for the west.
 
"In its continuing effort to obtain a compromise on the seniority integration issue,
ALPA directed the East and West ALPA MECs to send their respective representatives
to negotiations sponsored by ALPA National at Wye River, Maryland. These
negotiations continued from January 31, 2008 through February 8, 2008, in what was
referred to as a lock down environment. These negotiations were terminated when
the West MECs representatives communicated that they were still subject to a May,
2007, West MEC resolution, which mandated that:
the AWA MEC will not engage in any negotiations which amend, alter or
otherwise change the outcome of the Nicolau award, including any joint
negotiations of the America West pilots seniority rights already ordered
in the award in subsequent contract negotiations.
(Exhibit F).
14. ALPA responded to the West MECs intransigence by reassuring East pilots that,
under both the Transition Agreement and ALPA Merger Policy, the Nicolau list could
not be imposed without the agreement of the East MEC and the East pilots to a single
collective bargaining agreement. Moreover, the East MEC and East pilots were assured
that ALPA would not interfere with their democratic rights to exercise an effective veto
Case 2:08-cv-01633-NVW Document 200 Filed 02/17/2009 Page 5 of 10
over implementation of the Nicolau list. For example, in a letter dated March 14, 2008, to US Airways pilots, ALPA President John Prater stated:
The Transition Agreement requires that the parties maintain separate
operations until the implementation of a new collective bargaining
agreement covering the entire airline. Both the Transition Agreement and
ALPA Merger Policy prohibit US Airways from utilizing the single
seniority list until we reach a single agreement.
***
[ALPA] Merger Policy does not contain a timetable for completing the
single agreement.
***
Some members have asked what will happen if pilots from one group or
the other sue the Association either to block implementation or to force
implementation of the Nicolau award. I repeat there is no required
timetable for implementation of the award. That only happens with a
single collective bargaining agreement."

Why did you have to form a union to evade the arbitrated seniority list? It seems like a lot of trouble when you could have blocked it through ALPA.

Nevermind.

 

[Phoenix]

It took all but a minute to read the proposal and make that determination? Ask your attorney, it's called billable hours.

You'd be a discount attorney, hey, you get what you paid for 😉

 
How long do you need to read such a short proposal?
 
Its simple.  APA is asking for USAPA to agree to abandon the court case in D.C. and to give the APA what they are asking from the D.C. judge.  

 

[Claxon]

Why did you have to form a union to evade the arbitrated seniority list? It seems like a lot of trouble when you could have blocked it through ALPA.

Nevermind.

 
Just call it a second opinion.  Bottom line no JCBA no nick, best of luck to you on the island.

 

[Claxon]

The west pilots only chance now is to give up on the the "700 dollar ties that bind them".
 
apa is not looking out for your best interest now.  A DOH agreement with the east is your only chance. 
 
If you do not believe me, ask a former Air Cal, Reno, TWA or East pilot.
 
"You gotta know when to hold them, know when to fold them......................."

 

[Claxon]

 

[Claxon]

“In the US Airways – America West case, it went to binding arbitration but there was a requirement as part of that that the two unions negotiate a joint contract with the company, which wasn’t done yet.
 
And because it wasn’t done yet, the side that didn’t like it could prevent a joint contract from getting done. And because of that, the seniority integration never happened."
 
 
AKA Scott Kirby
 
 
 
http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2012/05/kirby-we-expect-an-amr-us-airw.html/

 

[Claxon]

"For example, in a letter dated March 14, 2008, to US Airways pilots, ALPA President John Prater stated:
The Transition Agreement requires that the parties maintain separate
operations until the implementation of a new collective bargaining
agreement covering the entire airline. Both the Transition Agreement and
ALPA Merger Policy prohibit US Airways from utilizing the single
seniority list until we reach a single agreement.
***
[ALPA] Merger Policy does not contain a timetable for completing the
single agreement. …
***
Some members have asked what will happen if pilots from one group or
the other sue the Association either to block implementation or to force
implementation of the Nicolau award. I repeat – there is no required
timetable for implementation of the award. That only happens with a
single collective bargaining agreement."

 

[Phoenix]

The West Class held a "Nic or nothing" stance at Wye River, and they lost ALPA.
 
The West Class held a "Nic or nothing" stance during the trial at the 9th, and they lost $2M dollars.
 
The West Class held a "Nic or nothing" stance during Judge Silver's DJ trial and lost any doubt about USAPA's freedom to negotiate any SLI they wished.
 
The West Class held a "Nic or nothing" stance  during Judge Silver's mandatory negotiating session, and they lost their DFR Trial on the Merits, and they lost any doubt about their entitlement to participate in MB.
 
Now the West Class has a fifth chance to revisit their "Nic or Nothing" stance... all they risk now is an arbitrator upholding the court order that they are not entitled to participate.  
 
Yes, its their fifth chance to negotiate something before they are handed "nothing".  

 

[Freighterguynow]

A DOH agreement with the east is your only chance. 
 
."

I must say it bothers me a new hire is given a bid on a widebody over a West pilot.

So, having thrown that bone out there, it seems to me there is no longer any process between the former East and West of any kind.

We voted in a new deal - the MOU. I see no ability for the E/West to reach any agreement of any kind strictly amounst ourselves.

Even if we tried something outside the MOU, Don't you think the APA would oppose it since it could have an effect on the subsequent SLI process with them?

 

[Freighterguynow]

Why did you have to form a union to evade the arbitrated seniority list? It seems like a lot of trouble when you could have blocked it through ALPA.
Nevermind.

7 years later and you still don't get it.