2014 Pilot Discussion

[algflyr]

For the life of me I cannot figure out people like trader or usa320pilot (CM). Cheering against the very people they work with every day hoping for them to lose so much. You are right East, WTF?
 
They seem to WANT the Nic, even though it may very well hurt them, and certainly their co-workers. Well the bottom line is that the Nic was created in a legal language world with very specific conditions that needed to be met in order to be implemented. Those conditions were never met. So legally the Nic cannot be implemented. But they seem to want it implemented anyway even though doing so would go against the law. It's all about following the absolute letter of the law.
 
I wonder if the PIC were to somehow, miraculously I might add, get the pension fully restored, would trader and USA320 absolutely refuse to accept that? I mean the pension was legally surrendered to the company during bad times. Do they feel so strongly that the company absolutely needed to erase the pension in order to survive and that it was legally given away, that even if we made a successful legal argument and forced its full reinstatement that they would oppose it? I doubt they would. The Nic is no different. It's all legal maneuvering... 

 

[EastUS1]

I totally agree. I have sent my letters. After you send your letters, there is opportunity to forward the info to 6 other pilots. Usually a little nudge from a pilot friend moves one to action.
 
breeze

 
Agreed fully. Gentlemen: Whether this produces any results or not can't now be be determined, but it sho' 'nuff don't cost anyone much time to at least try.

 

[Claxon]

Everyday of delay is a day closer to APA replacing USAPA as our CBA.

Every day is a day farther away from the Bridge Too Far for David Braid.
More east upgrades, 330 deliveries and their pay. More 320 upgrades and pay.
Braid advocated separate ops as did most west pilots, at lower pay.
Now separate ops brings higher east pay. Sorry David, but you were not concerned in the past. You made this bed. Lay in it. For years.
You cry to Capt. Hale about Final and Binding. You were warned at Wye, it would be neither final, nor binding if you did not compromise. As much as you say it is- it isn't.
west pilots now lurk on this board, from the shadows. They are wallowing in the karma they cast on themselves, separate ops, lower pay. The tables turned.
David Braid will now enjoy the fields that grew of what seeds he planted. Enjoy yourself David, SNAPTHIS, Capt Gay, Mark Doyal, john Jurik, Cap'n Aux, Tony Anger, Mark Peeper.
All of you. Enjoy PHX. For years.

 

[EastUS1]

For the life of me I cannot figure out people like trader or usa320pilot (CM). Cheering against the very people they work with every day hoping for them to lose so much. You are right East, WTF?

 
The shortest synopsis to be offered there is that self-loathing behavior manifests in many forms. At least they're just spewing forth on the internet and not cutting themselves for attention.

 

[Claxon]

SNAPTHIS - the biggest phony/ poser of them all. Ran like a rabbit when Hale kicked Braid out of his office.

 

[EastUS1]

SNAPTHIS - the biggest phony/ poser of them all. Ran like a rabbit when Hale kicked Braid out of his office.

 
Hmm...Perhaps he should have brought some "Integrity Matters" T-shirts and "liberty" ties to pass around and properly "impress" with? 😉

 

[Claxon]

Hmm...Perhaps he should have brought some "Integrity Matters" T-shirts and "liberty" ties to pass around and properly "impress" with? 😉

And perhaps Elise and Hale can answer some questions as to who facilitated Braids visit.
Questions that can be asked under deposition of Mr.Siegal by William Wilder.

 

[EastUS1]

 They are wallowing in the karma they cast on themselves, separate ops, lower pay. The tables turned.
David Braid will now enjoy the fields that grew of what seeds he planted. Enjoy yourself David, SNAPTHIS, Capt Gay, Mark Doyal, john Jurik, Cap'n Aux, Tony Anger, Mark Peeper.
All of you. Enjoy PHX. For years.

 
Indeed, "Stupid is as Stupid does", and should any of "you'se" mighty "spartan aces"/"battle"-tested-"knights"/"dire wolves"/whatever feel even the slightest need for "righteous" vengeance: My many-years-now wager's always open, and who couldn't use a few more laughs? PM if interested. 😉
 
Rut Roh! yet another mighty "spartan" minus vote! Such disapproval means the world to me and always proves both painful and utterly crushing!....And yet, amazingly (well...not-so-much-really) no wager-accepting-PM? 🙂 Sigh!...No worries. Enjoy life on "you'se" little PHX island kiddies, and give my very best to "you'se", umm..."supreme commander"/"knights"/"wizards"/"dire wolves"/whatever. Thanks for all the chuckles over the years. 😉
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfSLuEj99d0

 

[algflyr]

Well USAPA put out an update yesterday, where is USA320pilot saying thank you for the update?
 
Whatever proposals USAPA sent the APA, did he think the APA would just respond in a day or two? I'm sure whatever the ultimate agreements will be, they will most likely have a deep impact on pilots on both sides of this mess. They are very important to both sides and need to be very calculated by all involved. One would have to logically think that when the APA received the USAPA proposal, they would first have to try and understand the proposal and the ramifications of what they mean. Then of course they would have to run everything by legal and get their input, something that is bound to take more than a few days. I would think that would be followed by a back and forth discussion among themselves and their legal department to fully explore every contingency. To expect an answer from the APA in less than a month seems unreasonable to me. 
 
My personal opinion is that the APA and their legal department knows exactly where this is heading. As does USAPA. They will delay this until the 11th hour and will then make whatever is going to happen public knowledge. Just following the absolute letter of the law ya know... Sorry Chip, you will have to wait like the rest of us...
 
So...
 
Delay to the APA means they will continue to capture ALL their attrition and the resulting upgrades and movement into the widebodies until the agreement is finalized.
 
Delay to the East means they will continue to capture ALL their attrition and the resulting upgrades and movement into the widebodies until the agreement is finalized.
 
Delay to the company doesn't matter as long as they can crew all their flights with no disruptions to the system. They have a final deadline for this to be resolved, and I think we are working well within that time frame.
 
Delay to the West means they are stuck in PHX with no immediate hope of movement either upward or into higher paying equipment.
 
All sides seem content with the status quo with the exception of the West. Other than the reporting of the required documents being submitted in court by all involved, we hear very little from behind the scenes from the APA, USAPA or the company. The West however seems not to be so content with the silence... To quote AWAPPA: I "encourage all pilots to review the presentation (current events) and draw their own conclusions about our situation"... 

 

[EastUS1]

All sides seem content with the status quo with the exception of the West.

 
Well, given that even their last and however desperate, even most cherished fantasies are currently blowing away in the wind...etc. What surprises most is that no heroic "spartan" even bothered to flourish the mighty "Shield of Leonidas" while all this happened. Perhaps a few T-shirts, heroic lisping and PowerPoint slides, ties and the like might have really mattered? I'll now defer to the likes of trader et al to properly lecture us all on any/all aspects of "the big picture". 😉
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSsbEGrBjso

 

[algflyr]

 
Well, given that even their last and however desperate, even most cherished fantasies are currently blowing away in the wind...etc. What surprises most is that no heroic "spartan" even bothered to flourish the mighty "Shield of Leonidas" while all this happened. Perhaps a few T-shirts, heroic lisping and PowerPoint slides, ties and the like might have really mattered? 😉
 

Reminds me of a song by Kansas... 🙂
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12DeNdF0KPA
 
I like the lyrics: "All we do...  crumbles to the ground, though we refuse to see...
 
And also at the end: "It slips away - and all your money won't another minute buy"... ")

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

  LMFAO, just looked at poor poor DB's powerpoint ! I think slide 22 says it all! Hilarious , how embarrassing ahhhh! THE LEADUSUNHIREABLES! Maybe you could have negotiated when you had that "RISK" thing sitting in your lap., The pics of the empty sim bays, priceless! Pathetic.

 

[Zone5]

LMFAO, just looked at poor poor DB's powerpoint ! I think slide 22 says it all! Hilarious , how embarrassing ahhhh! THE LEADUSUNHIREABLES! Maybe you could have negotiated when you had that "RISK" thing sitting in your lap., The pics of the empty sim bays, priceless! Pathetic.

Where did you find the PowerPoint? I would love to see it.


seajay

 

[nevergiveup]

The west's case to this day is still not ripe and voting for the MOU ended it all. Delay is good even for PHX, if you live there. Everybody happy. Tis another beautiful day in d island!

 

[end_of_alpa]

Well USAPA put out an update yesterday, where is USA320pilot saying thank you for the update?
 
Whatever proposals USAPA sent the APA, did he think the APA would just respond in a day or two? I'm sure whatever the ultimate agreements will be, they will most likely have a deep impact on pilots on both sides of this mess. They are very important to both sides and need to be very calculated by all involved. One would have to logically think that when the APA received the USAPA proposal, they would first have to try and understand the proposal and the ramifications of what they mean. Then of course they would have to run everything by legal and get their input, something that is bound to take more than a few days. I would think that would be followed by a back and forth discussion among themselves and their legal department to fully explore every contingency. To expect an answer from the APA in less than a month seems unreasonable to me. 
 
My personal opinion is that the APA and their legal department knows exactly where this is heading. As does USAPA. They will delay this until the 11th hour and will then make whatever is going to happen public knowledge. Just following the absolute letter of the law ya know... Sorry Chip, you will have to wait like the rest of us...
 
So...
 
Delay to the APA means they will continue to capture ALL their attrition and the resulting upgrades and movement into the widebodies until the agreement is finalized.
 
Delay to the East means they will continue to capture ALL their attrition and the resulting upgrades and movement into the widebodies until the agreement is finalized.
 
Delay to the company doesn't matter as long as they can crew all their flights with no disruptions to the system. They have a final deadline for this to be resolved, and I think we are working well within that time frame.
 
Delay to the West means they are stuck in PHX with no immediate hope of movement either upward or into higher paying equipment.
 
All sides seem content with the status quo with the exception of the West. Other than the reporting of the required documents being submitted in court by all involved, we hear very little from behind the scenes from the APA, USAPA or the company. The West however seems not to be so content with the silence... To quote AWAPPA: I "encourage all pilots to review the presentation (current events) and draw their own conclusions about our situation"...

As you all know I have been on this forum for quite some time trying to post the LEGAL aspect of this situation and tried to warn the West of this very real possibility. Only to be called scab and other names by the West for simply posting THE FACTS. They are their own worst enemies at this point. It's sad, really.