2014 Pilot Discussion

[USA320Pilot]

Management has tried five times to either obtain a court order, arbitrator's order, or union agreement to permit a 3 (4)-way M-B ISL arbitration (Summary Judgment, Motion to Correct, PA discussions, Reply & Counterclaim, and their Motion to Stay/Arbitration) and each time USAPA has opposed the Company and APA's attempt.

Tomorrow will mark two weeks since USAPA presented the BPR's counter proposal (including a revised PA, UMTA, GA, and M-B lawsuit settlement) to APA. There has not been a peep from USAPA and it's my understanding that Gary Hummel, Jess Pauley, and other MC associates (members and advisors) may or may not know APA's response, but the BPR has not heard anything and has not been briefed on APA's response, if any 

There are multiple reports from people with knowledge of USAPA's situation that AAG and APA will not permit a M-B arbitration to proceed that is not a 3(4)-way arbitration. And, I heard that USAPA's advisors told Gary Hummel and the MC that it's inevitable there will be a 3(4)-way arbitration, which is why USAPA apparently has heard anything so far from APA regarding USAPA's new proposals. 

Now the parties are waiting from the federal court in D.C. to "Stay" the proceedings and order an arbitration, which would allow the court to punt. Once Arbitrator Bloch's expedited Opinion & Award is provided shortly after the June 15-17, 2014 arbitration then the federal judge in DCA would not have to hear USAPA's M-B lawsuit. Next the NMB can then authorize SCC with clarity, APA could create 3 labor autonomous MC's that are separately funded, AAG would be the fourth M-B arbitration party as authorized by the M-B statute/MOU, and we would have a F&E ISL arbitration.

In my opinion, USAPA's advisors know the union's legal opinion is unsupportable. USAPA cannot successfully argue in PHX federal court that a subset of a union cannot argue seniority in a SLI arbitration than take the opposite position in the next merger ISL arbitration. USAPA suffers from a severe credibility problem arguing the same point out of a different side of its mouth. USAPA has proven Judge Silver to be correct when she said, "the court has no doubt that-as USAPA's consistent practice-USAPA will change its position when it needs to do so to fit its hard and unyielding view on seniority."

Here's the interesting part. Many BPR members apparently now believe a 3(4)-way arbitration will proceed, but politically cannot make this decision. The BPR wants to continue their desperate attempt to maintain relevancy post SCC (to keep some power, FPL in place, and to not have to fly the line as much), for the Domicile Reps to obtain APA Domicile Rep positions post SCC (this is part of the UMTA and GA proposal), and keep the UEL's political power base in place. Furthermore, the UELs cannot make a hard decision and they do not want to take responsibility for a 3(4)-way arbitration to proceed. Instead the UEL's want judicial intervention and for APA to make the decisions for USAPA.

In conclusion, it appears we are at the end game and following the next moves AAG and APA will be able to say "checkmate." 

 

[Phoenix]

The courts have always affirmed USAPA's freedom to be free from repeated attempts from numerous groups who attempt manipulative coercion. Every time the courts have refused to implement coercive tactics at the behest of ill conceived ambitions....

And now the masked marauder thinks those same impotent manipulator wannabeees are gonna declare "checkmate." ....

You hoisting the white flag maybe...

 

[mrbreeze]

Management has tried five times to either obtain a court order, arbitrator's order, or union agreement to permit a 3 (4)-way M-B ISL arbitration (Summary Judgment, Motion to Correct, PA discussions, Reply & Counterclaim, and their Motion to Stay/Arbitration) and each time USAPA has opposed the Company and APA's attempt.

Tomorrow will mark two weeks since USAPA presented the BPR's counter proposal (including a revised PA, UMTA, GA, and M-B lawsuit settlement) to APA. There has not been a peep from USAPA and it's my understanding that Gary Hummel, Jess Pauley, and other MC associates (members and advisors) may or may not know APA's response, but the BPR has not heard anything and has not been briefed on APA's response, if any 

There are multiple reports from people with knowledge of USAPA's situation that AAG and APA will not permit a M-B arbitration to proceed that is not a 3(4)-way arbitration. And, I heard that USAPA's advisors told Gary Hummel and the MC that it's inevitable there will be a 3(4)-way arbitration, which is why USAPA apparently has heard anything so far from APA regarding USAPA's new proposals. 

Now the parties are waiting from the federal court in D.C. to "Stay" the proceedings and order an arbitration, which would allow the court to punt. Once Arbitrator Bloch's expedited Opinion & Award is provided shortly after the June 15-17, 2014 arbitration then the federal judge in DCA would not have to hear USAPA's M-B lawsuit. Next the NMB can then authorize SCC with clarity, APA could create 3 labor autonomous MC's that are separately funded, AAG would be the fourth M-B arbitration party as authorized by the M-B statute/MOU, and we would have a F&E ISL arbitration.

In my opinion, USAPA's advisors know the union's legal opinion is unsupportable. USAPA cannot successfully argue in PHX federal court that a subset of a union cannot argue seniority in a SLI arbitration than take the opposite position in the next merger ISL arbitration. USAPA suffers from a severe credibility problem arguing the same point out of a different side of its mouth. USAPA has proven Judge Silver to be correct when she said, "the court has no doubt that-as USAPA's consistent practice-USAPA will change its position when it needs to do so to fit its hard and unyielding view on seniority."

Here's the interesting part. Many BPR members apparently now believe a 3(4)-way arbitration will proceed, but politically cannot make this decision. The BPR wants to continue their desperate attempt to maintain relevancy post SCC (to keep some power, FPL in place, and to not have to fly the line as much), for the Domicile Reps to obtain APA Domicile Rep positions post SCC (this is part of the UMTA and GA proposal), and keep the UEL's political power base in place. Furthermore, the UELs cannot make a hard decision and they do not want to take responsibility for a 3(4)-way arbitration to proceed. Instead the UEL's want judicial intervention and for APA to make the decisions for USAPA.

In conclusion, it appears we are at the end game and following the next moves AAG and APA will be able to say "checkmate." 

This is all "hearsay" and your opinion, which I, for one, don't care about. How about focusing on some facts for a change. It would help your credibility tremendously.
breeze 

 

[Phoenix]

After all the protection USAPA has enjoyed by way of the courts, there is absolutely no reason for USAPA to give an inch beyond what the courts have repeatedly affirmed at every level....

In other words there is no reason to think the latest BPR proposal (to APA) is anything less than exactly what the D.C. court wil protect or award anyway. The only reason APA would accept it is to move things along faster... The only reason they would reject or ignore it would be for delay (and there are many reasons why delay is advantageous, exclusive access to attrition is the most obvious, as exemplified by the beloved union.)

 

[mrbreeze]

More than one way to skin a cat......
 
 
2 QUARTERS or a DOLLAR BILL

                        A young boy enters a barber shop and the barber whispers to his customer,

                        'This is the dumbest kid in the world. Watch while I prove it to you.'



                        The barber puts a dollar bill in one hand and two quarters in the other,

                        then calls the boy over and asks, 'Which do you want, son?'


                        The boy takes the quarters and leaves the dollar.

                        'What did I tell you?' said the barber. 'That kid never learns!'


                        Later, when the customer leaves, he sees the same young boy coming out of the ice cream store & says ;

                        'Hey, son! May I ask you a question? Why did you take the quarters instead of the dollar bill?'

                        The boy licked his cone and replied, 'Because the day I take the dollar, the game's over!'

 

[nycbusdriver]

It would help your credibility tremendously.
 

 
USA320's credibility is so non-existent that nothing will help it.   Don't give him falst hopes.  He is a sad joke to virtually all east pilots, and soon the west pilots will come to realize why.  His next task, for which he is consummately qualified, is to alienate all the AA pilots.  I give him 18 months.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

18 mos? Funny your generosity does not go unnoticed.

 

[luvthe9]

USA320's credibility is so non-existent that nothing will help it.   Don't give him falst hopes.  He is a sad joke to virtually all east pilots, and soon the west pilots will come to realize why.  His next task, for which he is consummately qualified, is to alienate all the AA pilots.  I give him 18 months.

.


"They have to negotiate in their own best interests. I just wanted to counter the grossly exaggerated claims of Captain Munn. Except for a few pilots near the top of their equipment and seat, the company’s current proposal does not live up to Captain Munn’s claim of tens of thousands extra dollars in our pockets. Instead, his “facts” are aimed at creating disunity and disagreement. His brand of "facts" need to be exposed for what they are."





"We’ve heard from Captain Munn before. He currently runs his own Pro-ALPA “PilotAction” website. Now he hypes an anonymous site of questionable “facts.” Wherever he sees an audience, he jumps on the latest cause. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but I disagree with his. We have learned that when Captain Munn is involved, be very afraid, if he’s on your side of the issue. "

 

[Claxon]

 
US AIRWAYS
E. Allen Hemenway
Vice President Labor Relations
 
November 15, 2005
 
Captain Doug Mowery MEC Negotiating Committee Chairman -
US Airways Air Line Pilots Association
One Thorn Run Center Coraopolis, PA 15108
 
Captain Mark Burdick MEC Negotiating Committee Chairman -
America West Air Line Pilots Association
Two Gateway 432 N. 44th Street, Suite 340
Phoenix, AZ 85008
 
Dear Captains Mowery and Burdick:
 
Our Transition Agreement effective September 23, 2005 provides for a process by which the parties will negotiate a single collective bargaining agreement applicable to the merged operations of America West and US Airways. As we prepare to commence those negotiations,
 
I want to outline the Company's understanding of how we will proceed. Jerry Glass will be the Company's lead negotiator throughout this process. It is our desire to reach a fair and equitable single agreement with the Association as expeditiously as possible. To that end, Jerry has had preliminary discussions with the two of you and other members of the Joint Negotiating Committee (JNC) to schedule meeting dates and discuss the Association's view of how to reach a single agreement in a timely manner. I
 
n those discussions, the Association's suggestion was to use the America West collective bargaining agreement as a template, dividing the negotiations and sections into three phases as follows:
 
Phase I - Administrative Section 5 Compensation for expenses, hotels and transportation 6 Moving expenses 7 Vacations 8 Deadheading 9 Miscellaneous Flying 10 Transfer of non-flying or supervisory duty 13 Leaves of Absence 14 Sick L eave 15 Physical Examinations 16 Workers' Compensation Benefit 17 Missing Internment, prisoner or hostage of war benefits 18 Witnesses and Representatives � (Witnesses and Representative provisions From AWA CBA will be incorporated into this and other grievance related Sections) 19 Investigation and Discipline 20 Grievances 21 System Board of Adjustment 22 Seniority 23 Reduction in Force, Furlough and Recall 26 General 29 Union Security and check off Phase II- Operational Section 4 Minimum Pay Guarantees 11 Training 12 Hours of Service 18 International from US CBA 24 Filling of Vacancies 25 Scheduling Phase III - Economic/Other Section 1 Recognition, Scope and Management Rights 2 Definitions 3 Compensation 27 Health and Welfare Benefits 28 Retirement 30 Duration
 
In regard to Letters of Agreement, there was discussion about the possibility of appointing a subcommittee to review all applicable letters from both contracts, deleting those that no longer apply and incorporating provisions from as many of the applicable letters as possible into relevant sections of the contract.
 
We think it is an excellent suggestion and would like to pursue a process to achieve this objective. In the discussions to date with members of the JNC, our collective approach is to focus on completing each phase before going on to the next. However, as discussed in a conference call on October 18 , there may be sections or portions of sections in Phases I and II that could have some economic impact to the Company above the current cost levels. Therefore, if we get to a point during negotiations where the Association makes proposals that seek to modify our current pilot cost structure, then previously closed sections may be re-opened to engage in trading of values to address overall pilot labor costs. T
 
o date, we have confirmed the following meeting dates and locations. Dates: Nov 15,16,17 Nov 29, 30, Dec 1 Dec 6,7,8,9 Jan 10, 11, 12 Jan 24, 25, 26 Feb 7, 8, We can determine collectively what time to begin on the first day of each negotiating session. Finally, as previously discussed with members of the JNC, the Company's view is that, absent an alternative agreement negotiated by the parties, under the successorship language of the respective contracts, the US Airways collective bargaining agreement would be the surviving agreement. As stated in this letter, our desire is to reach a consensual single agreement as expeditiously as possible. However, if we are unable to reach an agreement in a timely manner, or are unable to reach an agreement with the same cost structure as the US Airways agreement the Company reserves its rights to apply the US Airways collective bargaining a greement to the merged operation.
 
We look forward to working together to reach an agreement soon.
 
Sincerely,
 
E. Allen Hemenway
Vice President, Labor Relations

 

[Claxon]

 

 
US AIRWAYS
E. Allen Hemenway
Vice President Labor Relations
 
November 15, 2005
 
Captain Doug Mowery MEC Negotiating Committee Chairman -
US Airways Air Line Pilots Association
One Thorn Run Center Coraopolis, PA 15108
 
Captain Mark Burdick MEC Negotiating Committee Chairman -
America West Air Line Pilots Association
Two Gateway 432 N. 44th Street, Suite 340
Phoenix, AZ 85008
 
Dear Captains Mowery and Burdick:
 
Our Transition Agreement effective September 23, 2005 provides for a process by which the parties will negotiate a single collective bargaining agreement applicable to the merged operations of America West and US Airways. As we prepare to commence those negotiations,
 
I want to outline the Company's understanding of how we will proceed. Jerry Glass will be the Company's lead negotiator throughout this process. It is our desire to reach a fair and equitable single agreement with the Association as expeditiously as possible. To that end, Jerry has had preliminary discussions with the two of you and other members of the Joint Negotiating Committee (JNC) to schedule meeting dates and discuss the Association's view of how to reach a single agreement in a timely manner. I
 
n those discussions, the Association's suggestion was to use the America West collective bargaining agreement as a template, dividing the negotiations and sections into three phases as follows:
 
Phase I - Administrative Section 5 Compensation for expenses, hotels and transportation 6 Moving expenses 7 Vacations 8 Deadheading 9 Miscellaneous Flying 10 Transfer of non-flying or supervisory duty 13 Leaves of Absence 14 Sick L eave 15 Physical Examinations 16 Workers' Compensation Benefit 17 Missing Internment, prisoner or hostage of war benefits 18 Witnesses and Representatives � (Witnesses and Representative provisions From AWA CBA will be incorporated into this and other grievance related Sections) 19 Investigation and Discipline 20 Grievances 21 System Board of Adjustment 22 Seniority 23 Reduction in Force, Furlough and Recall 26 General 29 Union Security and check off Phase II- Operational Section 4 Minimum Pay Guarantees 11 Training 12 Hours of Service 18 International from US CBA 24 Filling of Vacancies 25 Scheduling Phase III - Economic/Other Section 1 Recognition, Scope and Management Rights 2 Definitions 3 Compensation 27 Health and Welfare Benefits 28 Retirement 30 Duration
 
In regard to Letters of Agreement, there was discussion about the possibility of appointing a subcommittee to review all applicable letters from both contracts, deleting those that no longer apply and incorporating provisions from as many of the applicable letters as possible into relevant sections of the contract.
 
We think it is an excellent suggestion and would like to pursue a process to achieve this objective. In the discussions to date with members of the JNC, our collective approach is to focus on completing each phase before going on to the next. However, as discussed in a conference call on October 18 , there may be sections or portions of sections in Phases I and II that could have some economic impact to the Company above the current cost levels. Therefore, if we get to a point during negotiations where the Association makes proposals that seek to modify our current pilot cost structure, then previously closed sections may be re-opened to engage in trading of values to address overall pilot labor costs. T
 
o date, we have confirmed the following meeting dates and locations. Dates: Nov 15,16,17 Nov 29, 30, Dec 1 Dec 6,7,8,9 Jan 10, 11, 12 Jan 24, 25, 26 Feb 7, 8, We can determine collectively what time to begin on the first day of each negotiating session. Finally, as previously discussed with members of the JNC, the Company's view is that, absent an alternative agreement negotiated by the parties, under the successorship language of the respective contracts, the US Airways collective bargaining agreement would be the surviving agreement. As stated in this letter, our desire is to reach a consensual single agreement as expeditiously as possible. However, if we are unable to reach an agreement in a timely manner, or are unable to reach an agreement with the same cost structure as the US Airways agreement the Company reserves its rights to apply the US Airways collective bargaining a greement to the merged operation.
 
We look forward to working together to reach an agreement soon.
 
Sincerely,
 
E. Allen Hemenway
Vice President, Labor Relations

 

Al's play book.
 
Juxtaposition. 
 
american and america west pilots are providing their own lubrication.

 

[dariencc]

 
USA320's credibility is so non-existent that nothing will help it.  

 
Little known fact.  Military personnel who appear, in uniform, in advertisements for commercial products (i.e., hair plug replacements) are violating federal law.

 

[snapthis]

Al's play book.
 
Juxtaposition. 
 
american and america west pilots are providing their own lubrication.

 
Justasuggestion, miKY...I don't think AA is interested in the lube job you attempted to give to HPilots. View attachment 10200

 

[Claxon]

 
Justasuggestion, miKY...I don't think AA is interested in the lube job attempted to give to HPilots.

naughty_boff.gif

 

[snapthis]

Hey MiKY,
Where were the key us air executives in 2005? How come you needed Parker to enjoy the windfall he brought you for the past 8 years, huh?



Company Overview of US Airways Group Inc., Prior To Acquisition With America West Holdings Corp.


Company Overview
As of September 27, 2005, US Airways Group, Inc. was acquired by America West Holdings Corp. in a reverse merger transaction. US Airways Group, Inc., through its subsidiaries, operates a network air carrier. Its subsidiary, US Airways, Inc. (US Airways) engages in the transportation of passengers, property, and mail. As of December 31, 2004, its subsidiary operated 281 jet aircraft and 22 regional jet aircraft; and provided scheduled service at 89 airports in the continental United States, Canada, Mexico, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Ireland, the Netherlands, the United Kingdom, and the Caribbean. The company is headquartered in Arlington, Virginia.

Key Executives for US Airways Group Inc., Prior To Acquisition With America West Holdings Corp.

US Airways Group Inc., Prior To Acquisition With America West Holdings Corp. does not have any Key Executives recorded


http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=310955

 

[Claxon]

Hey MiKY,
Where were the key us air executives in 2005? How come you needed Parker to enjoy the windfall he brought you for the past 8 years, huh?



Company Overview of US Airways Group Inc., Prior To Acquisition With America West Holdings Corp.


Company Overview
As of September 27, 2005, US Airways Group, Inc. was acquired by America West Holdings Corp. in a reverse merger transaction. US Airways Group, Inc., through its subsidiaries, operates a network air carrier. Its subsidiary, US Airways, Inc. (US Airways) engages in the transportation of passengers, property, and mail. As of December 31, 2004, its subsidiary operated 281 jet aircraft and 22 regional jet aircraft; and provided scheduled service at 89 airports in the continental United States, Canada, Mexico, France, Germany, Italy, Spain, Ireland, the Netherlands, the United Kingdom, and the Caribbean. The company is headquartered in Arlington, Virginia.

Key Executives for US Airways Group Inc., Prior To Acquisition With America West Holdings Corp.

US Airways Group Inc., Prior To Acquisition With America West Holdings Corp. does not have any Key Executives recorded


http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=310955

"On May 19, 2005, US Airways Group signed a merger agreement with America West Holdings, pursuant to which America West Holdings agreed to merge with a wholly owned subsidiary of US Airways Group. Following the merger, America West Holdings continued as a wholly owned subsidiary of US Airways Group."
 
http://services.corporate-ir.net/SEC.Enhanced/SecCapsule.aspx?c=196799&fid=4046062