2014 Pilot Discussion

[traderjake]

Begging the NMB to corrupt a Federal Statute is like pulling Gs in a spiral dive.. Pull harder and the MB noose will get tighter. Ground impact is inevitable.

Begging a court to corrupt a Federal Statute is like doubling the G load when you start to see the ground rush.

 
I beg to differ.
 
There's begging and then there's this.

 

[EastUS1]

..... and rumors began......

 
😉

 

[traderjake]

 
USA320Pilot
 
P.S. He was never taken off of the payroll or benefits. 

 
In reality a paid vacation.

 

[Phoenix]

I beg to differ.
 
There's begging and then there's this.

You begging to differ. Who would guess THAT? 😀

No one should implicitly assume a court would abdicate to an arbitrator their own exclusive authority regarding the applicability of a Federal Statute.

Of greater issue, standing in a court room before a judge imploring the judge to abdicate the court's own exclusive authority to an arbitrator regarding the applicability of a Federal Statute is by definition contempt of said court.

 

[USA320Pilot]

How ironic it is the West pilots are saving the East pilot's bacon... 
 
From the APA's Doc 26-1, page 9-10:

Under MOU Paragraph 10(a), the seniority arbitration cannot begin until the after parties have finalized a JCBA. The timing of the JCBA is in turn determined by when the National Mediation Board (“NMB”) makes a finding that the two pre-merger airlines have become a “single carrier” for labor relations purposes. Paragraph 26 provides that “APA shall file a single carrier petition with the NMB as soon as practicable after [the date of the merger]. . . . If and when the NMB makes a single-carrier finding, the single carrier acknowledged by the NMB and the certified representative shall be governed by this [MOU].” Paragraph 27 requires that the parties reach agreement on the JCBA within 30 days after the NMB makes a single carrier finding and certifies the collective bargaining representative for that carrier. If the parties are unable to reach agreement, they must submit the unresolved issues to “interest” arbitration on a compressed schedule. Accordingly, under Paragraph 10(a), the seniority integration arbitration may not commence until this process is complete.



 

The MOU crafted by LCC, AMR, APA, and USAPA permitted the APA to file for SCS within 4 months. APA accelerated the process and filed for SCC within 30 days of the MOU becoming effective. I believe almost everyone understood USAPA would not be the surviving Agent. Judge Silver's Addington II DDR Order shut USAPA down immediately upon SCC determination. USAPA had their chance to obtain a PA with everything they wanted but the UELs once again blew it. When will we learn?

 
At least US Airways' pilots won’t have to worry about the UELs ever hurting the pilots again in the not-too-distant future. USAPA's time is over, but the good news is that AAG and APA are going to provide a F&E SLI process. How ironic it is the West pilots are saving the East pilot's bacon because it's AOL's DFR/Liability claim threat that is ensuring a F&E M-B ISL process after the MOU was ratified. 

 
An informed pilot wrote another accurate post when he said, “The Protocol negotiations were the company and APA's way of giving USAPA the opportunity to remain relevant. However, USAPA's blind hatred for the west prevented them from closing out the agreement. The agreement provided everything USAPA was looking for except their ability to get rid of the Nic.” 
 

 

[traderjake]

To the extent APA multiplies their hostility toward USAPA, they magnify both the prescience and the necessity of MB.

 
Don't fret, you'll get a MB arbitration, you just won't have USAPA as your CBA when it happens.

 

[Claxon]

The finish line is near and USAPA will cease to exist in the not-too-distant future. The good news is that the US Airways pilots will finally have honest representation. This week's legal filings and declaration by APA and AAG just put a stake through USAPA's heart and USAPA's desperate attempt to remain relevant with their focus on a UMTA and GA.
 
What this about is Contract Law trumping Statutory Law because the pilots ratified the MOU; as described by Judge Silver.The MOU does nothing to harm the statutory provisions of M-B process.
 
As described a bright individual, "On the contrary, it enhances or exceeds what A/M requires (just as ALPA Merger Policy was much more robust than A/M too). I know what you are going to say, 'How can it enhance when USAPA is excluded?' First, the MOU always provided that JCBA must be completed 30 days after NMB SCD, and second, SLI could not commence until we have a JCBA. That means there was always going to be only one union during the SLI; that being APA. USAPA will not be a party, but no one is wanting to exclude the east pilots (and by extension separate status for the west) from a fair and equitable process. The problem here is the fact that USAPA is still wanting to step on the neck of the west pilots rights in the upcoming SLI. That is a DFR problem for the APA and company during the SLI. USAPA going away and the APA providing rights to both the east and west is the only way to solve the problem.""We all voted in favor of the MOU, and now that usapa doesn't like the future the MOU holds, they want to void it. Solution: Stop trying to step on the West pilots' neck and all will be well OR hold on to the current strategy and live with the contract. Pretty simple, but not so much in USAPA's world," he correctly explained.
 
APA an AAG gets this, which is why USAPA's existence is about to end and the finish line is near... 

First, your predictions have the accuracy of a Scud. Secondly, you need to bone up on MB issues. You are telling lies again. USAPA will be representing ALL USAirways east pilots. They do NOT go away as you infer and lie.

 

[Phoenix]

First, your predictions have the accuracy of a Scud. Secondly, you need to bone up on MB issues. You are telling lies again. USAPA will be representing ALL USAirways east pilots. They do NOT go away as you infer and lie.

Don't fret, you'll get a MB arbitration, you just won't have USAPA as your CBA when it happens.

Yes we have MB and a list of arbitrators has been issued in accordance with the statute, and I have heard no persuasive argument that the courts will alter the statute or the case law regarding it.

 

[Pi brat]

 
How ironic it is the West pilots are saving the East pilot's bacon... 
 
From the APA's Doc 26-1, page 9-10:
 

Under MOU Paragraph 10(a), the seniority arbitration cannot begin until the after parties have finalized a JCBA. The timing of the JCBA is in turn determined by when the National Mediation Board (“NMB”) makes a finding that the two pre-merger airlines have become a “single carrier” for labor relations purposes. Paragraph 26 provides that “APA shall file a single carrier petition with the NMB as soon as practicable after [the date of the merger]. . . . If and when the NMB makes a single-carrier finding, the single carrier acknowledged by the NMB and the certified representative shall be governed by this [MOU].” Paragraph 27 requires that the parties reach agreement on the JCBA within 30 days after the NMB makes a single carrier finding and certifies the collective bargaining representative for that carrier. If the parties are unable to reach agreement, they must submit the unresolved issues to “interest” arbitration on a compressed schedule. Accordingly, under Paragraph 10(a), the seniority integration arbitration may not commence until this process is complete.
 
 
 
The MOU crafted by LCC, AMR, APA, and USAPA permitted the APA to file for SCS within 4 months. APA accelerated the process and filed for SCC within 30 days of the MOU becoming effective. I believe almost everyone understood USAPA would not be the surviving Agent. Judge Silver's Addington II DDR Order shut USAPA down immediately upon SCC determination. USAPA had their chance to obtain a PA with everything they wanted but the UELs once again blew it. When will we learn?
 
 
 
At least US Airways' pilots won’t have to worry about the UELs ever hurting the pilots again in the not-too-distant future. USAPA's time is over, but the good news is that AAG and APA are going to provide a F&E SLI process. How ironic it is the West pilots are saving the East pilot's bacon because it's AOL's DFR/Liability claim threat that is ensuring a F&E M-B ISL process after the MOU was ratified. 
 
 
 
An informed pilot wrote another accurate post when he said, “The Protocol negotiations were the company and APA's way of giving USAPA the opportunity to remain relevant. However, USAPA's blind hatred for the west prevented them from closing out the agreement. The agreement provided everything USAPA was looking for except their ability to get rid of the Nic.” 
 
 
 

You forgot to add your usual "could it be..." "possibly..."
 
Where did your blind hatred of the west come from in your past posts? Should I post some more? Hypocrite.

 

[Pi brat]

 The good news is that the US Airways pilots will finally have honest representation.

I'm saving this one!

 

[767one]

First, your predictions have the accuracy of a Scud. Secondly, you need to bone up on MB issues. You are telling lies again. USAPA will be representing ALL USAirways east pilots. They do NOT go away as you infer and lie.

Sorry ,  I disagree with your first statement......it's unfair to the scud's reputation.

 

[im back..!!]

Don't fret, you'll get a MB arbitration, you just won't have USAPA as your CBA when it happens.

I believe you are correct, my CBA will be APA. However, my M/B merger comittee will be chosen by my peer usairways pilots, and that probably will be the USAPA MC...

 

[cltrat]

I'm saving this one!

Pi his eyes must be brown ..as in full of chit

 

[Barrister]

How ironic it is the West pilots are saving the East pilot's bacon... 
 
From the APA's Doc 26-1, page 9-10:
Under MOU Paragraph 10(a), the seniority arbitration cannot begin until the after parties have finalized a JCBA. The timing of the JCBA is in turn determined by when the National Mediation Board (“NMB”) makes a finding that the two pre-merger airlines have become a “single carrier” for labor relations purposes. Paragraph 26 provides that “APA shall file a single carrier petition with the NMB as soon as practicable after [the date of the merger]. . . . If and when the NMB makes a single-carrier finding, the single carrier acknowledged by the NMB and the certified representative shall be governed by this [MOU].” Paragraph 27 requires that the parties reach agreement on the JCBA within 30 days after the NMB makes a single carrier finding and certifies the collective bargaining representative for that carrier. If the parties are unable to reach agreement, they must submit the unresolved issues to “interest” arbitration on a compressed schedule. Accordingly, under Paragraph 10(a), the seniority integration arbitration may not commence until this process is complete.
[/size] 
The MOU crafted by LCC, AMR, APA, and USAPA permitted the APA to file for SCS within 4 months. APA accelerated the process and filed for SCC within 30 days of the MOU becoming effective. I believe almost everyone understood USAPA would not be the surviving Agent. Judge Silver's Addington II DDR Order shut USAPA down immediately upon SCC determination. USAPA had their chance to obtain a PA with everything they wanted but the UELs once again blew it. When will we learn?[/size]
[/size] 
At least US Airways' pilots won’t have to worry about the UELs ever hurting the pilots again in the not-too-distant future. USAPA's time is over, but the good news is that AAG and APA are going to provide a F&E SLI process. How ironic it is the West pilots are saving the East pilot's bacon because it's AOL's DFR/Liability claim threat that is ensuring a F&E M-B ISL process after the MOU was ratified. [/size]
[/size] 
An informed pilot wrote another accurate post when he said, “The Protocol negotiations were the company and APA's way of giving USAPA the opportunity to remain relevant. However, USAPA's blind hatred for the west prevented them from closing out the agreement. The agreement provided everything USAPA was looking for except their ability to get rid of the Nic.” [/size]
 [/size]

You idiot. Just quoting from Court pleadings means nothing
Should we wait until the court either finds merit or doesn't
Your stupidity is alarming!
Nicdoa
Npjb

 

[traderjake]

I believe you are correct, my CBA will be APA. However, my M/B merger comittee will be chosen by my peer usairways pilots, and that probably will be the USAPA MC...

 
.......and the West MC will be chosen by their peers.