Yea or nay

[The Goose]

OOHHHHHHH...We better jurry up and vote YES!...oooohhhhh

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/amr-labor-costs-exceed-industry-standards-by-600m-2010-05-19-84460?siteid=yhoof2

Now, there's an "Industry Standard" labor cost - Christ on a bicycle - I thought I had heard it all ...

 

[Birdman]

"American Airlines parent company AMR Corp. said Wednesday that its labor costs exceed industry standards by about $600 million".

Talk is cheap. Without detailed financial reports these statements are baseless and should be ignored.

 

[The Goose]

"American Airlines parent company AMR Corp. said Wednesday that its labor costs exceed industry standards by about $600 million".

Talk is cheap. Without detailed financial reports these statements are baseless and should be ignored.

Agreed, especially since executive compensation/perks are part of what the devils love holding over our heads ... it does sound good for the investors who are stupid enough to believe they've got a good deal.

 

[Birdman]

Humorous slogans popping up in Tulsa.

VOTE NO. ITS SO EASY EVEN A CAVEMAN CAN DO IT.

 

[Bob Owens]

OOHHHHHHH...We better jurry up and vote YES!...oooohhhhh

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/amr-labor-costs-exceed-industry-standards-by-600m-2010-05-19-84460?siteid=yhoof2

We can expect more and more of that from the corporate press, you aint seen nuthin yet, wait till the ballots go out!!

 

[BigMac]

Humorous slogans popping up in Tulsa.

VOTE NO. ITS SO EASY EVEN A CAVEMAN CAN DO IT.

Correction...it's "CAAVEMAAN" Mr. Bird.

 

[Boomer]

Hypothetical:

GIVEN:
1) Two individuals work at the same Union represented company; one is in his mid forties with over twenty years seniority and the other is over fifty with fifteen years seniority; and,
2) The Union represented individual, under fifty, with over twenty years of seniority loses his retiree medical benefits while the Union represented individual over fifty with less than twenty years seniority keeps his; and,
3) Bob Owens has stated that the average age of the TWU M&R Member is in their late 40's.

QUESTION(S):
1) Inclusive of the fact that we are negotiated labor under the RLA, and the TWU International, not the Membership, owns the CBA but is forced to pay some portion of their earnings to the TWU as a condition of employment at AA: how is the result of this TA between AA/TWU not evidence of collusion to engage in age discrimination given the fact that age was the criteria for exclusion of a contractual benefit rather than years of company service?: and/or,
2) Does anyone smell a RICO violation, fraud, when coupled with the fact that the TA contemplates refunding the Retiree Medical Pre-Funding to the TWU based on ongoing negotiations between AA and the TWU, that are not part of the CBA and that were never contractually obligated by any CBA rather than being paid out to the individual Union Member?

Thoughts?

 

[1AA]

Hypothetical:

GIVEN:
1) Two individuals work at the same Union represented company; one is in his mid forties with over twenty years seniority and the other is over fifty with fifteen years seniority; and,
2) The Union represented individual, under fifty, with over twenty years of seniority loses his retiree medical benefits while the Union represented individual over fifty with less than twenty years seniority keeps his; and,
3) Bob Owens has stated that the average age of the TWU M&R Member is in their late 40's.

QUESTION(S):
1) Inclusive of the fact that we are negotiated labor under the RLA, and the TWU International, not the Membership, owns the CBA but is forced to pay some portion of their earnings to the TWU as a condition of employment at AA: how is the result of this TA between AA/TWU not evidence of collusion to engage in age discrimination given the fact that age was the criteria for exclusion of a contractual benefit rather than years of company service?: and/or,
2) Does anyone smell a RICO violation, fraud, when coupled with the fact that the TA contemplates refunding the Retiree Medical Pre-Funding to the TWU based on ongoing negotiations between AA and the TWU, that are not part of the CBA and that were never contractually obligated by any CBA rather than being paid out to the individual Union Member?

Thoughts?

AGE and SENIORITY discrimination is the simple result. This is exactly what unions are suppose to protect its workers from. Remember when NON-UNION Delta purchased Pan Am routes back in the 90's? Pan Am was finished and Delta picked and chose who they wanted to work for them. They left many senior people people out on the street. I believe the TWU also represented Pan am at that time. What a track record.

 

[Bob Owens]

Hypothetical:

GIVEN:
1) Two individuals work at the same Union represented company; one is in his mid forties with over twenty years seniority and the other is over fifty with fifteen years seniority; and,
2) The Union represented individual, under fifty, with over twenty years of seniority loses his retiree medical benefits while the Union represented individual over fifty with less than twenty years seniority keeps his; and,
3) Bob Owens has stated that the average age of the TWU M&R Member is in their late 40's.

QUESTION(S):
1) Inclusive of the fact that we are negotiated labor under the RLA, and the TWU International, not the Membership, owns the CBA but is forced to pay some portion of their earnings to the TWU as a condition of employment at AA: how is the result of this TA between AA/TWU not evidence of collusion to engage in age discrimination given the fact that age was the criteria for exclusion of a contractual benefit rather than years of company service?: and/or,
2) Does anyone smell a RICO violation, fraud, when coupled with the fact that the TA contemplates refunding the Retiree Medical Pre-Funding to the TWU based on ongoing negotiations between AA and the TWU, that are not part of the CBA and that were never contractually obligated by any CBA rather than being paid out to the individual Union Member?

Thoughts?

The average age in our Local is 47(it was 46 last year), however the company stated that 54% of M&R is over 50.

We already posed the question to a lawyer, if it gets voted in we dont have a case, howver if the funds are turned over to the TWU instead of being refunded to us that may be another story.

 

[TWU informer]

While the TWU is claiming the vote delay is due to "final language" work being done, the more likely scenario is that the TWU is in negotiations with an insurance company to offer "supplemental medical" coverage for that which they have negotiated away.

Just like the LTD Insurance, look for the TWU to offer up a replacement plan.

Only this will have a rollover option for your pre-funding balance that will give you a "lower" premium than "normal" premium option under the "plan"

The company will not handover the funds to the TWU, the members will hand over via rollover option.The insurance offer will coincide with informational meetings just before ballots go out.

The premiums will be reasonable in comparison to current cost but after ratification the premium increases will begin and the younger you are the worst you will suffer.

I still say sending these morons back to the table will not change the outcome, the pie distribution might change, but if the idiots bought into this in the first place, then where does anyone see them gaining the courage to fight it because of a failed ratification vote?

Quit dreaming and get busy with a longer term solution, the short term we are facing is a done deal.

How many times must you be hoodwinked by the same predicatable representation? Why do you always believe the outcome will be different this time? Is it because some of you were elected to office and you are having trouble with truth as a result?

Nothing and I mean nothing has changed from my perspective.

PS - Age discrimination might fail as a legal challenge, but I bet FMLA and American with Disabilities Act challenge that claims inability to buy insurance due to qualifying medical issues or chronic illness might fair much better in court.

 

[DFWFSC]

I heard that a few fleet service local presidents proposed to the TWU Intl that there should be a fornula such as your age and seniority should add up to 65 or more in order to keep your retiree medical' but it will likely not get approved due to the M&E agreement underway.....So' if the M&E TA gets voted down' you guys think someting like the age and sen formula would work for the M&E folks? Would it be enough to swing a no vote into a yes vote? Just curious....Thx..

 

[MCI transplant]

I heard that a few fleet service local presidents proposed to the TWU Intl that there should be a fornula such as your age and seniority should add up to 65 or more in order to keep your retiree medical' but it will likely not get approved due to the M&E agreement underway.....So' if the M&E TA gets voted down' you guys think someting like the age and sen formula would work for the M&E folks? Would it be enough to swing a no vote into a yes vote? Just curious....Thx..

<_< ------- If that were the only issue in this bag of crap, that might be a more equitable way to go, but it's not the only issue!!!

 

[Tex-Mech]

Would it be enough to swing a no vote into a yes vote? Just curious....Thx..

NO

I'm not going to vote to give my job to eagle.

 

[toroshark]

I heard that a few fleet service local presidents proposed to the TWU Intl that there should be a fornula such as your age and seniority should add up to 65 or more in order to keep your retiree medical' but it will likely not get approved due to the M&E agreement underway.....So' if the M&E TA gets voted down' you guys think someting like the age and sen formula would work for the M&E folks? Would it be enough to swing a no vote into a yes vote? Just curious....Thx..

NO! It would just be a way to get a few more votes. That formula would still hose some. If a person would change his vote based on that , then he would be no better than the negotiators selling out the membership for a shot at a international position.

 

[Barfbag]

I At what point will we say "Enough"?

Even with extra " fees" tack on to fares, the passenger is still getting a free ride. With the exception of LUV all airlines are running on red ink.

So you'll say Enough, soon, because inflation ( though now in check ) has eaten away your spending power. ( Your salary has been stuck in the mud long before the " recession " became a household word.).

The industry has been McDonaldized.

Your increase( if any ) will never match what you've already lost.

Good luck to all.