Why I Voted Yes

[AC Tynker]

So you blame me personally for the problem, but do not know how to fix it and have no ideas yourself?

I feel certain that if I was to die, the problem would still exist. How do you fix something that is wrong and broken if you have to remain in a predetermined definition of "unity" which in your definition apparently means that you cannot speak out against the wrong? The TWU structure and the leadership that is appointed in exchange for dirty deeds is the head of the snake. Sure there would be a lenghty process to erase the divisions and the apathy created by that structure. Unity in general is virtually impossible when the company and the Union are content to work together on agreements that are designed to obtain a narrow 1% margin of victory. The whole idea with them both is the get just enough votes passage. That in itself causes division as we will witness the haves and the have nots. I put years into the TWU, in the 1980's being what is called a "good union member", all of the same divisions were present then, just as they are now.

I am not the problem, the problem is in the TWU Consitution that has created an Insistutional Political monster than cannot be controlled by the so-called Supreme Authority (the membership). You have the advantage of knowing my identity, so all of my known character flaws are open targets for you and the others that know my identity. If I knew who you were, I would personally spend the time to share with you my ideas, and reasons for doing what I am doing, and why the TWU cannot be fixed, and needs to be replaced. That is too much information and history to sit here and type out for you. It is more of a book that an internet post that needs to be written. It requires communication that is more effeicient than this forum offers. I spend alot of time communicating with individuals face to face, and I respect their right to disagree with my opinions, my history with the TWU, and my ideas for change.

Bottom line the way I see it, I am actively working on what I think will correct or fix the problem. You admit that you have no ideas how to fix it, but admit there is a problem. Until you come with a solution, then being anti TWU Informer (Dave) is not going to help you with your desired change.

If you care to learn more about my ideas, my historical knowledge of the TWU, the proof that the TWU cannot be changed, and why I personally chose this path to advocate change then PM me and I will meet with you. But I am not going to be able to type out that information or that message here on this forum. If I were to become willing to type that all out. I would sit down and write a book about the TWU history that I have lived and why so many are seeking a change of union representation. This offer goes to anyone reading this post. If you are willing to meet and discuss this like men, then PM me and I will come to you.

What I find is that most TWU and/or Teamsters supporters that are anti-AMFA, and even anti-Me, cannot even sit down like adult men and debate even the simple points relating to Union Constitutions, Labor Law, Labor and Politics, Grievance Handling, History of the TWU. Instead they are just ate up with fear of change, and use the same arguements that I see you presenting here. You appear to be interested in what is going on, but will remain one sided until the communication and information from both sides is in front of you to view.

I will spend whatever time with you personally discussing these issues. But I will need to meet you, know who you are. If you are unable to do it as men so that everything is equal as far as politics goes, then you remain wasting your time attacking and blaming me, and your union will still have no unity. If you do not even have it within you to allow me to meet you personally, then I will assume you have more to hide than just your identity. I can and will keep your identity unkown here. Your choice.

The expanation of the company paid T/A meetings was that the TWU asked for permission and the company granted it because "nobody will go to the Union Meeting". Not only is company Union Meetings a violation of Federal Law, it is also not going to fix the problem we have with unity. I had to leave that meeting I attended due to an ERT alert page out. I happen to take that service to be more important than a room full members being guided by liars. But I have been told I was not the only one that called BS on the claim that Labor Cost is the problem while AA is willing to pay for Union Meetings on company time. The reason nobody goes to Union Meetings is because the TWU has zero credibility with those members that have been around awhile. Nobody will waste their personal time to go listen to proven liars. I make a mockery out of that because both legally and politically that is a mockery of unionism in itself.

The biggest problem I have with unity building ideas is the company/union alliance or farce and the fact that the TWU is not just your Union, they are actually Politically running your maintenance base into the ground via the company/union alliance that has been created. So you know, there is suppose to be a division between the Union and the Company. What we have is a divisison between the Union Member and the Company/Union alliance. It used to be the Union against the Company. Now it is the Union Members against the Company/Union Alliance. That is not the way it is suppose to be if you want "UNITY" overall.

As far as you attacking me because I said I would be willing to be a leader. You would have a vote on that matter, just as you have a vote on this T/A. You could even go out and actively campaign in opposition to me wanting to be a leader like you are already doing now.

I fully expect there to be opposition to change, accountability, and professional standards. That is fine, you and others will vote on which solution or direction for a future you would like. And the reason the Cult post upset you is becuase there is truth in it. You really should consider becoming a leader with a solution, instead of just someone that attacks the one who has already started down that path.

I have no doubt that I can answer this question for you, but you can answer if you like.

Are you willing to stand up and be a leader and are you willing to allow your identity to be known while you post your opinions here like I have done?

In retrospect I shouldn't have posted while I was irritated about something so menial as text. I really don't want to hear what you have to offer as to why you so inherently want a change in representation and I thought I had made no bones about the fact that I am not here to defend the TWU, IBT or any Union. My concern that I made reference to was not You being anyone special or having any special powers. The point we are at no matter who is to blame (company, union, etc) is a downward spiral and I just thought that maybe you or those like you may have an idea of how to bring people together in general arena so to speak. I am sure what I am talking about can and/or will never happen but you never know. The "I am a Man this is my identity" thing, No I have more online sense than that, the wrong person has not made it to this site yet. If some are not worried about having their life turned upside down by a hacker then I say you need to do some reading outside of aviation sites. The hacker boogieman is real and hides behind a proxy not under a bed. The more you throw out there about your identity the stupider you are in my book. My opinion may not mean anything to some but it means a lot to me.

I am no lawyer but I would venture to say there were no federal laws broken with the TA Information meetings and I am wondering if maybe you or whomever is misinterpreting a law that I am trying to find that has to do with campaigning for election on paid time. Before you type it these were not vote yes meetings. They were Q&A meetings about the TA and what all the lingo meant took questions and butt chewings as a good leader does from time to time and then let everyone know how he was voting.

 

[Tex-Mech]

I will vote yes tuesday because I believe the LBO2 to be the best deal we will get under the circumstances.
What contractural article will we reference to file a grievance if our contract is abrogated? What would stop the company from firing would be union leaders for disrupting labor if we were to try to have a job action when our contract is abrogated? The company has given their word to only impose the mar. 22 term sheets if they win the right to abrogate but I do not trust them.

BTW I have never voted yes on a contract before and I am proud to have been one of the IAM union members that stopped Lorenzo in 1989.

You would reference the same articles you would reference even if the contract gets voted in. For overtime, field trips, and the RIF, you will reference whatever the company writes whether the offer goes up or down. For terminations, the term sheet says nothing about getting rid of articles dealing with such. Everything said so far say that the company is legally bound by imposing no worse then the march 22 term sheets, although they can impose the LBO2. If you did stand against lorenzo, I thank you, but if that was the case why would you not stand now? You walked away from your job in 89, but not willing to take a stand in 2012. Something is not right with that.

 

[Overspeed]

We all spent time and money to be able to work on aircraft. We all willingly accepted a job with a company where we had to become union members. I am not using an alias calling people a fool who are voting yes to lower the standard of contract language which will not only affect our profession at AA but affect our craft industry wide.

This t/a is not a "normal" get a week extra vacation but give up a paid lunch, etc. This t/a is bigger than anyone's "situation". You post that this t/a is to be decided on "our situation" but your "our" is personal/indivdual. This t/a is really OUR situation meaning OUR craft's situation as a WHOLE. Willingly voting yes on this t/a is foolish. Period. If you have an issue with my opinion then it only means that you agree with my opinion but are too fearful to admit it.

What does my living in CA have anything to do with the fact that as union men and women we do not LOWER the bar and make MORE sacrifices that further harm our craft. The company has lied to you and will continue to lie to you. The twu lies to you and will continue to lie to you. To listen to liars who repeadtedly lie to you is foolish.

"Why can't we all just do it Ken's way because he knows what's best for all of us regardless of what our situation may be."

You wouldn't like "my way" because I believe in a craft union for OUR craft where all officers are elected and held accountable by the membership. I do not believe in bringing back concessionary contracts. I believe in democracy. But to you I am sure these are all foolish.

If you view my opinion of yes voters as being foolish as berating that is your choice. I stand by my beliefs and do not apologize. The truth hurts at times.

VOTE NO!

VOTE AMFA!

You berate yourself Ken by sacrificing your integrity all the time.

This is not a "normal" negotiation process. We are in BK. In normal negotiations everything remains status quo while we continue to talk. In BK status quo does not exist and AA can impose new conditions with no say from us. Outsource SAN? Yep, they can do that brother.

 

[odie01]

I will vote yes tuesday because I believe the LBO2 to be the best deal we will get under the circumstances.

The APA, APFA and the TWU all seem to agree that we should try to avoid abrogation. The unions that have gone before us in bankruptcy have nearly all voted to avoid abrogation.

I don't trust the TWU or AA's management because I know they have lied to us in the past and I suspect they are making under the table deals right now but allowing them to abrogate our contract will give them even more power over us. What contractural article will we reference to file a grievance if our contract is abrogated? What would stop the company from firing would be union leaders for disrupting labor if we were to try to have a job action when our contract is abrogated? The company has given their word to only impose the mar. 22 term sheets if they win the right to abrogate but I do not trust them.

If we vote NO we will send the same TWU negotiating team back to get us a better deal.... Why would I think they could do better next time? The company will amost certainly win the right to abrogate and it will use it's power of abrogation to instill fear in the membership, we will probably vote in a worse contract after they have beat us down.

Is this fear? Maybe, but a deer that is not afraid of a hunter will be eaten.

Even though I will be voting YES if the majority of the membership votes NO I will stand with the majority because unity is the only thing that gives unions power.

BTW I have never voted yes on a contract before and I am proud to have been one of the IAM union members that stopped Lorenzo in 1989.

Do us a favor and wait till Wednesday to cast your vote for our profession. Your name says it all.

 

[Overspeed]

We'll get em next time brother. hahahaha.

In the words of one of the DFW Dozen who came up here. "Tell your friends to vote no!"

900 guys in DFW and only 12 showed up? Wow!

 

[odie01]

900 guys in DFW and only 12 showed up? Wow!

Over 10,000 title 1 and less than 1500 title 2, but title 2 brings this sh*t back for a vote.....WOW!

 

[Overspeed]

If you feel that you are being offered a fair & equitable wage & benefits then why are you willing to accept being offered less wage & benefits? I, like you, have a family and they depend on me to provide a good living. By willingly accepting this t/a that ability to provide a good living is at greater risk.

Why should I go to Southwest or someplace else just because it is better there? Did you ever think that maybe unlike management I actually have pride in being an AMT at American Airlines and wish to bring that pride back? You suggest I leave AA because it would be easier to just go someplace else and not fight for what Southwest AMTs, and others, have here at AA?

You might not think "my way" is the right way but that is where the democratic process comes in. Living in fear as you do is foolish.

Maybe you should have stayed in DFW after Don V pulled all those strings for you. You could have lived a nice life and in a big house in TX. Instead you ran away from DFW and the mess you helped create. How many BC's got pulled after the Gary P led Board took office? You guys did a great job chasing the only honest people, Mike and Kerry away.

 

[DNTULSA]

you lying again overspeed?

 

[whatajoke]

"If you do not like it leave. that is what AA is telling you.
I am voting NO"

Hum, joker, this is your quote from another thread but it makes your top quote... what exactly?

I do not believe we are being paid fair & equitable pay & benefits so I am voting no. I want to fight to protect OUR craft here at AA and industry wide so I am not leaving like you indicate the company, and niner, are telling me to do. You don't like it here and are fighting by voting no. So which is it? Do we stand together and fight together for OUR craft or make contradicting posts from behind an alias?

By the way, why do you believe there will never be one mechanic union?

We stand together and vote NO.
We disagree on the one union in fantasy land it will happen, in real life never.
Look at government we are in need of another party that represents the hard working people of this country and none in site. Their is to many divisions. ( Blacks,asians,hispanics,whites, gays,green fanatics,etc...)
Good luck with your vision I will not stand in the way.

 

[1AA]

you lying again overspeed?

He is getting personal. On the verge of being suspended. This is the actions of a desperate person. He might be fearing another rejected LBO. I think he needs a timeout.

 

[Tex-Mech]

How many BC's got pulled

Not that I really care, but whats that?

 

[AC Tynker]

Not that I really care, but whats that?

I Care ! !
sorry thought it was funny reading that in a thread somewhere on here

 

[Tulsamechanic9]

And if you lived someplace outside of Tulsa, your family would rely on you having two jobs in addition to your wife's job, and putting the dog to work. That is the reality in the rest of the system, and why 5 out of 6 AMT's at the negotiating table voted to reject bringing this offer back. By voting for this offer, you are voting to have an AMT in a high cost city having 3 jobs instead of 2. Is it fair that the Southwest mechanic only works one job? Even the guys I work with at AFW have two jobs, or have their wife working. That is our reality.

I have the solution for you ....... Move to Tulsa, Problem solved I don't have a problem with someone voting no if that is what they feel like is the best solution for them & they shouldn't have a problem with me voting yes because that is the best solution for me & my family, if your not happy with the contract then you should vote no, i'm not voting yes out of fear Ken I'm voting yes because I want a 15% pay raise over the 6 year contract & I think voting no will mean that I won't get that raise.
there is nothing wrong with staying & fighting for what you want or voting for what you want but there is something wrong with berating others who don't share your agenda or want to vote YOUR way.
Respect your fellow employee's regardless of how they vote.

 

[odie01]

I have the solution for you ....... Move to Tulsa, Problem solved I don't have a problem with someone voting no if that is what they feel like is the best solution for them & they shouldn't have a problem with me voting yes because that is the best solution for me & my family, if your not happy with the contract then you should vote no, i'm not voting yes out of fear Ken I'm voting yes because I want a 15% pay raise over the 6 year contract & I think voting no will mean that I won't get that raise.
there is nothing wrong with staying & fighting for what you want or voting for what you want but there is something wrong with berating others who don't share your agenda or want to vote YOUR way.
Respect your fellow employee's regardless of how they vote.

What are you fighting for? Your voting yes. Go ahead wave the white flag in your front yard, I'm sure your kids would be proud of you if they were old enough to understand. Your 15% was already voided by insurance premiums. Thanks for your help

 

[Tulsamechanic9]

What are you fighting for? Your voting yes. Go ahead wave the white flag in your front yard, I'm sure your kids would be proud of you if they were old enough to understand. Your 15% was already voided by insurance premiums. Thanks for your help

I'm fighting for a yes vote just as your fighting for a no vote.