Why I Voted Yes

[TWU informer]

What will be interesting is that if this gets ratified, do the Line Locals file a lawsuit and an injunction stopping the signing because they were not allowed to have company paid union meetings to express their position on the T/A. Because AA could be in seroius trouble if and when that happens.

It is a violation of Federal Law for the company to interfere in the Union's Business.

 

[Tulsamechanic9]

I agree. Most have their opinions and are not going to be changed.
It is the sheep herd that follow the others to pasture that you are after.

Who knows what result the company paid union meetings at the Tulsa Base had.
In my opinion, there were many who would not go spend the time to read the T/A themselves.
Once they were in a meeting and the truth of the far reaching concessions was heard and in their hands, many NO Voters were created from that, just as many Yes Voters were created from the one-sided fear mongering. And even thought that was probably a wash in count for both sides, it doesn't change the fact that this activity is against Federal Law. What will be interesting is that if this gets passes, does the Line Locals file a lawsuit that they were not allowed to have company paid union meetings to express their position on the T/A. Because AA could be in seroius trouble if and when that happens.

I heard both coming from the meetings, those that decided to vote no, and those that decided to vote yes.
And then the Dan McCoy's of the world who did change their minds. You wanted an example of someone changing their minds? Dan McCoy changed from a NO to a YES once Sam Cirri convinced him the the Line AMT was his enemy and a boogie man under the bed that will get him if he voted no. So you are indeed wrong, someone did post that they changed their mind, but only one that I know of.

You misunderstood me I didn't say that people aren't changing their minds I said that this forum isn't changing anyone's mind, I have talked to several people at the base who have changed their minds because of the meetings or something they read on the twubkfacts website but have not heard anyone say that this forum has changed their mind, as I said the people who come here have an agenda & as such have already made up their minds but I agree that their are many at the base who haven't made up their minds yet which is why I spend most of my time talking to them instead of on here.
Very few people know or care about this forum believe it or not so those of you who spend hours upon hours on here are not making a difference in the vote in my opinion.

BTW I talked to Dan & I don't believe you know why he is voting yes on this offer, I have not seen any post's from him saying that #1 he was ever planning on voting against this second offer. #2 that Sam Cirri convinced him to vote for it because of the line stations.
so instead of speaking for him maybe you should let him speak for himself when he is un-suspended after all your always telling him not to speak for others.

 

[TWU informer]

You misunderstood me I didn't say that people aren't changing their minds I said that this forum isn't changing anyone's mind, I have talked to several people at the base who have changed their minds because of the meetings or something they read on the twubkfacts website but have not heard anyone say that this forum has changed their mind, as I said the people who come here have an agenda & as such have already made up their minds but I agree that their are many at the base who haven't made up their minds yet which is why I spend most of my time talking to them instead of on here.
Very few people know or care about this forum believe it or not so those of you who spend hours upon hours on here are not making a difference in the vote in my opinion.

Maybe so, but wait for the Law to Rule before you claim there is nothing wrong with what has happened in Tulsa regarding company paid union meetings. Just because we are in Bankuptcy doesn't mean all Federal Laws are no longer relevant.

Local 514 and Local Management are great. They gave us one more shot at saving ourselves from this crap by potentially Violating Federal Law in an attempt to get it passed.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

I'm still voting YES.

Then you are still a fool.

 

[Tulsamechanic9]

Then you are still a fool.

So if we don't do it Ken's way instead of making our own choice for our lives then we are fools, guess were all fools for not living in California too, what other choices have you made for your life that the rest of us fools haven't made Ken ?
Why can't we all just do it Ken's way because he knows what's best for all of us regardless of what our situation may be.

I would never berate someone for making a different choice than me for their life & their situation but I guess that's just me, guess it's an AMFA thing huh Ken ;-)

 

[TWU informer]

So if we don't do it Ken's way instead of making our own choice for our lives then we are fools, guess were all fools for not living in California too, what other choices have you made for your life that the rest of us fools haven't made Ken ?
Why can't we all just do it Ken's way because he knows what's best for all of us regardless of what our situation may be.

I would never berate someone for making a different choice than me for their life & their situation but I guess that's just me, guess it's an AMFA thing huh Ken ;-)

Isn't pigeon holing Ken's opinion into an AMFA thing the same as berating the individual?

 

[Tulsamechanic9]

Isn't pigeon holing Ken's opinion into an AMFA thing the same as berating the individual?

Just a observation / perception I have that people who advocate AMFA seem to enjoy being hostile & berating others as opposed to those advocating the other 2 union's, i'm still evaluating this perception as being valid however so haven't come to a definitive conclusion just yet.

 

[amt66]

Just a observation / perception I have that people who advocate AMFA seem to enjoy being hostile & berating others as opposed to those advocating the other 2 union's, i'm still evaluating this perception as being valid however so haven't come to a definitive conclusion just yet.

Why wouldn't you want a union that only represents mechanics? Aren't we all tired of getting screwed by the twu who would rather fight like hell for fleet service than us?

 

[Buck]

Just a observation / perception I have that people who advocate AMFA seem to enjoy being hostile & berating others as opposed to those advocating the other 2 union's, i'm still evaluating this perception as being valid however so haven't come to a definitive conclusion just yet.

No the hostility comes from 30 years of being at the bottom of our profession. Looked upon as second class members in an industrial union.

 

[TWU informer]

Just a observation / perception I have that people who advocate AMFA seem to enjoy being hostile & berating others as opposed to those advocating the other 2 union's, i'm still evaluating this perception as being valid however so haven't come to a definitive conclusion just yet.

Actually you and AC Tynker, and even RaptorMan49 have made this point very clear, and I have evaluated my own behavior and realize that your perception has some potential merit. Thanks for the help and guidance on over coming the human flaws. But I know AMFA and know that anyone that is an Officer of AMFA would not approve of this behavior. So you should assume that this a personal flaw and not an AMFA flaw.

Someday, you should evaluate the Political Advertisements ran by the AFL-CIO and are paid for from your paycheck via Union Dues and perceive on that awhile.

 

[amt66]

No the hostility comes from 30 years of being at the bottom of our profession. Looked upon as second class members in an industrial union.

Well said!

 

[Strake]

So if we don't do it Ken's way instead of making our own choice for our lives then we are fools, guess were all fools for not living in California too, what other choices have you made for your life that the rest of us fools haven't made Ken ?
Why can't we all just do it Ken's way because he knows what's best for all of us regardless of what our situation may be.

I would never berate someone for making a different choice than me for their life & their situation but I guess that's just me, guess it's an AMFA thing huh Ken ;-)

Pay no mind to the guy. He's just a feeble minded weak old man without any integrity. An irrelevant mouse of a man.

 

[TWU informer]

Pay no mind to the guy. He's just a feeble minded weak old man without any integrity. An irrelevant mouse of a man.

What came first? The chicken or the egg?

 

[Realityck]

[background=rgb(255, 255, 255)]

My view

There are three core groups voting on this T/A. The Yes group, the No group, and the No element of AMFA supporters hoping to get enough AMFA cards signed by creating mistrust and dissension among the AMTs facing the crises we're in.

Individuals such as Owens, Peterson, and the AMFA bloggers, employ empty promises of future events that will dramatically change the landscape, as they ignore the fact we're in Bankruptcy Court, and not a routine section 6 negotiations. I seriously doubt many of you believe the NMB will suddenly expedite the mediation process after dragging their feet for the last several years by either forcing management to provide us with the contract the dissidents claim is there for the talking, or releasing us so we can shut the company down until they capitulate. They add the possibility of a PEB as an alternative should their other predictions fail to materialize as they have until now.

Fortunately, the members will speak with their vote this week and their decision will determine the course our future takes, the same as it will for the Pilots and Flight Attendants.
[/background]

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

So if we don't do it Ken's way instead of making our own choice for our lives then we are fools, guess were all fools for not living in California too, what other choices have you made for your life that the rest of us fools haven't made Ken ?
Why can't we all just do it Ken's way because he knows what's best for all of us regardless of what our situation may be.

I would never berate someone for making a different choice than me for their life & their situation but I guess that's just me, guess it's an AMFA thing huh Ken ;-)

We all spent time and money to be able to work on aircraft. We all willingly accepted a job with a company where we had to become union members. I am not using an alias calling people a fool who are voting yes to lower the standard of contract language which will not only affect our profession at AA but affect our craft industry wide.

This t/a is not a "normal" get a week extra vacation but give up a paid lunch, etc. This t/a is bigger than anyone's "situation". You post that this t/a is to be decided on "our situation" but your "our" is personal/indivdual. This t/a is really OUR situation meaning OUR craft's situation as a WHOLE. Willingly voting yes on this t/a is foolish. Period. If you have an issue with my opinion then it only means that you agree with my opinion but are too fearful to admit it.

What does my living in CA have anything to do with the fact that as union men and women we do not LOWER the bar and make MORE sacrifices that further harm our craft. The company has lied to you and will continue to lie to you. The twu lies to you and will continue to lie to you. To listen to liars who repeadtedly lie to you is foolish.

"Why can't we all just do it Ken's way because he knows what's best for all of us regardless of what our situation may be."

You wouldn't like "my way" because I believe in a craft union for OUR craft where all officers are elected and held accountable by the membership. I do not believe in bringing back concessionary contracts. I believe in democracy. But to you I am sure these are all foolish.

If you view my opinion of yes voters as being foolish as berating that is your choice. I stand by my beliefs and do not apologize. The truth hurts at times.

VOTE NO!

VOTE AMFA!