Jim Little Response To Ken Mactiernan

[j7915]

No Ken, you are not skilled or professional at anything but being or pretending to be a demagogue.

Skilled professionals don't have to brag about their abilities.

The coffin stunt was a sophomoric act by the very people you are trying to convince to let AMFA represent them. That little demonstration was no worse than the mock cremation of the TWU negotiated T/A you held on a beach and publicised with plenty of posted images.

j7915,
Demagogue? Well, so much for your ability to read my posts and NOT understand that I want nothing but the best for our profession. Hanging out with cio is having a side effect on you.
Post your evidence that I am NOT skilled or professional. Or remain in the shadows. I do not brag about my skill and professionalism I POINT to these characteristics of our profession to POINT OUT that an INDUSTRIAL union can not represent my craft and class.
The "mock cremation" (as you call it) of the t/a was organized by myself and another AMT here in SAN. We did not have any "last rights" or spoken prayers because it was not a "cremation. It was a show of disgust at the lack of respect and representation that we PAY the twu for and did not receive! If you had watched the video, (not the one the twu edited to their continuous sophmoric antics), you would have been able to comprehend what everyone in the video was saying. It was publicised because unlike the twu I believe in informing the full membership about how other AMTs feel. Do you have a problem with open communication? What is wrong with posting images with my name so you know who is in the picture? (Where were the names in the recent flyer from the twu? Who were they and what were their job classification?)

After the AMFA showing at NWA and UAL not to mention Alaskan, I should place my faith in AMFA's negotiating skills? In case you forget, I work at an overhaul base.

As for your abilities, you are the one talking about being skilled etc, I merely echoed your words. You won't find me using those words about my skill level, there is something new to learn every day.

Finally, as always, you are more interested in shooting the messenger than in reflecting on the message. Any reasoned reply is wasted on you . I just don't want to see your posting go unchallenged as the only and true version of the situation we are in. I am sure that from your vantage point on the West Coast you were able to follow the AA close encounter with BK judge better than the union people who actually were meeeting with the company and the legal teams.

I don't claim to understand the BK process all that well, but after the showdown at UAL and US Air, it seemed like AA was headed onto the same shoals at full power and on a straight course. I'll grant you that in retrospect it might have been beneficial if they had laid off lots of amts, I notice that among those who got the ax in 1980, there is a lot less enthusiasm to go charging off in any old direction without first checking the options.

 

[Buck]

Buck, my questions are for the AA members, and my questions are directed to AMFA's history after gaining bargaining agent at other airlines...does the membership know of AMFA's history? Do you Buck? I cannot and will not believe that everyone that is pro-AMFA is illiterate. Please Buck, what part of AMFA's history thrills you? This is not a test, this is a sincere question sir.

does the membership know of AMFA's history?

I do not know what this membership knows of AMFA. We as employees of American Airlines who are organizing and participating in the AMFA drive, have attempt to educate the membership.

Do you Buck?

Actually I know quite a bit of AMFA's history. I do not know every detail, but as an one of those who is not illiterate, I have the ability to research those items I need further education on.

Buck, what part of AMFA's history thrills you?

It is not so much the history, but the future or potential. The concept of the mechanic craft and class all across this nation in the same union, I believe holds a better future for the mechanic and related in this industry. The bargaining power alone will be immense. And yes the ability for the membership to decide what if any political quests will be taken. The membership is the key.

Now what part of history of my professional do I want to get away from?

That which has produced at every negotiation, a concessionary contract for the TWU and it's members. The concept of industrial unionism, which has compensated all members across the board without regard for the skill of their profession.

History, sir?

In my twenty years with American Airlines and the TWU, history has been the devastation of the airline industry, through the addition of many first items in negotiations. Items such as the B-scale pay scam, has made TWU represented
mechanics the bane of the profession and industry. And finally the non-union practices of the AFL-CIO and it's affiliates.

 

[Bob Owens]

Ken there are several reasons that Jim didn’t post his letter him self. One of the biggest reasons is the obvious fact Jim has a few thousand other members to answer to everyday.

Thats a lie. Jim does not have to anwer to any member. He only has to answer to Sonny Hall, the man who appointed him to ATD Director.

You act as though he Jim should be there at your beckon call, well Ken it doesn’t work that way. You act as though I should be ashamed of being loyal to Jim Little; well I’m not ashamed Ken.

I think that the point Ken is bringing forward is that Jim Little is not accountable to us. And yes you should be ashamed to be loyal to someone who sells out the labor movement to line his own pockets.

As for the half-truths I suppose it depends on how big of a pair of blinders your wearing that day, you do understand the bigger the blinder the smaller your vision. I suppose half-truths are in also a particular persons ability to define what is factual and what is total fiction. I find it very disturbing that in today’s world that there is a large number of people with limited vision.

Who has the limited vision? The one who exposes the truth or the one who resfuses to see it? Even you admit that from what you see Ken posts "half truths", well perhaps if you took the blinders off you could see the rest of the truth. The TWU has been selling out airline workers for twenty years in order to gain members. Members at the expense of other unions. We have a union that is closer to the company than its members, as displayed at Koziateks retirement party, the union officials on company payroll, and the most concessionary contract in the history of the labor movement.

Again if you were Jims only member he would be able to drop everything deal with your every whim. And one of the last but not least is the fact that the man is trying recover from cancer or did you conveniently forget about that fact? Ken now that Jim answered your questions, enough is enough.

The questions that Ken asked were questions that most of us here on the line want addressed. If the man is sick then he should step down. The membership should not suffer because he is unable to perform his appointed duties. I'm sure that the TWU and the company will provide for his and his family's financial needs a lot better than the contracts they get for their members provide for them. We recently buried one of our EAP coordinators, the International was a no-show, they did not expect to stop everything while he was sick and dying. Just because the man is sick that does not change what happened here with what the TWU did to its members. Its unfortunate that Jim Little is ill, but it should have no bearing whatsoever on what goes on between the members and the International.

Your last stament pretty much sums up our feelings about the TWU. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. Tewnty years of Industry Leading Concessions and excuses from the TWU International is enough. Its time for them to go AMFA and the AGW.

 

[Bob Owens]

Quintus Fabius Maximus (200 BC - 203 BC):
To be turned from one's course by men's opinions, by blame,
and by misrepresentation shows a man unfit to hold an office.

Titus Livius (59 BC - 17 AD)
Men are only clever at shifting blame from their own
shoulders to those of others.

Your post hits the nail on the head. Blame is what the TWU is all about. They have set up eloborate structures in which to deflect blame.

Your quotes describe Sonny and Little to a "T".


Little blames Sonny "I dont have a budget".

Sonny blames Little; "Sure I'd love to consolidate all the ATDs into one union, its not the guys at the top, its those just below who dont want it".

The Presidents blame the International "We would love to do it but the International stops us".

The International blames the Presidents "Your Presidents council voted this in".

And when not of that is applicable, they all blame the members "The memberrs do not participate".

They love that phrase, it says nothing but for some reason it works. Participate in what?

The fact is that most of the time, the person deflecting blame is a liar. The exception being the Presidents.

The fact of the matter is that the International has control over our contract. They are not subordinate to the Presidents council. That was proven when the International made the seperate locals for Maintenance.

The deflection of blame starts right at the top. Sonny Hall is the King at this. When Sonny removed me from office he refused to answer my calls or face me in court. The letter was clear that HE was the person removing me from office. It was his decision, yet to one of Local 562 members he later claimed that the Presidents council made him do it. This is the same body that sued Sonny and the International and the court agreed with Sonny's claim that the Presidents council was merely a committee of convienance not an authoritive body within the Union.

Shortly after coming into office I initiated an exchange of letters between Sonny and myself calling for the consolidation of all the AFL-CIO affiliated unions ATDs into one union. I demonstrated the merits of such an organization. At first Sonny claimed it was a push for AMFA, then he claimed that we had that already, then he claimed that it was a good idea but that it would never happen. He failed to state why and he ended the correspondance with an offer to meet and discuss the issue face to face. I accepted the opffer however on the scheduled date his secretary called me twenty minutes before the meeting, (I was nearly there already), and cancelled the meeting. He never agreed to another meeting. In May of last year I, along with Rick DeMarco, dropped in on Sonny. Oncee again I brought up having the AFL-CIO unions do what was right for airline workers. Once again Sonny blamed everyone else.

So what you get with the TWU is blame. You never get accountability. You never get "Ok, we were wrong, we will try to do better". Instead you get "Do you think its easy, then you try and do this job", or "Its not my fault". And even if the did say they would try and do better, what can you do about it if they reneg on their promise? You cant remove them unles you remove the whole union.

We have given the TWU twenty years to straighten up their act. They continue on the path of concessions for more members, of eroding the top scale in order to get more lower paid members on the dues paying membership rolls. This is a union that has no particular focus or interest upon any profession, they only care about fattening up their treasury so those at the International can live the lives of corporate executives.

 

[High Speed Steel]

Hey Johnny Lunchbox, I was really impressed with "OL" Buck's knowledge of the AMFA weren't you?. I have followed his posts for a while and the questions you asked him are a little over his head. He is one of those guys that is trying to sell an idea that they apparently know little about...!

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AMFA: The YUGO of the labor movement
Where barganing means YOU GO....!

 

[Checking it Out]

Buck is a follower; he very rarely does anything without Dave and Don pulling his strings. He has little knowledge beyond his world.

Between Dave wanting members to be laid off and Buck unwilling to preserve work there is little else to say!!!!

I think Jim Little did an excellent job in responding to ken's email!

 

[Buck]

Oh now my feelings are hurt. And to be discredited by the TWU, I believe I will follow Dave and Don over to Delles and beg for our cards back. Your posting ability has made me realize that I have been bad and should request an audience with Sonny the King to beg forgivingness.

I answered the mans questions and you made this whole issue about me. Nice attempt at deflection again. I know that you are not really concerned with me, you just did not have anything intelligent to say.

I never said I did not want to preserve work, I said I want all mechanics to be compensated equally for that work. You on the other condone the OSM classification.


I answered those questioned posed to me, now you industrial unionists answer one for me.

What has the AFL-CIO and it's affiliates done for the mechanic craft and class of the airline industry?

 

[Checking it Out]

Go to the many threads which have been started, as recent as today to see what, is, has and will be done for Us!

Please show us the accomplishments of the organization you are advocating!

 

[Checking it Out]

QUESTION #1: Did the TWU keep three maintenance bases open? Shouldn’t the credit go to the taxpayers and the local city governments that put together financial incentive packages, giving millions of dollars to American Airlines in Tulsa and at MCI.

ANSWER #1: Ken, when we negotiated the restructuring agreement that kept American Airlines out of bankruptcy, we let the company know that we were serious about saving jobs. Arpey knows that we have the power to make this company sink or swim. The TWU’s preference is for the company to swim with all three maintenance bases open and our members’ jobs protected.

Keeping all three bases open has been one of my top priorities. It is not only important to our members on the overhaul bases; it is also crucial for thousands of members at line stations who would be bumped if the bases shut down. By avoiding bankruptcy, we stopped American from implementing plans to downsize Tulsa and shut down MCI and AFW – and eliminate 12,000 jobs.

Even after we eliminated the bankruptcy threat, American continued to threaten to close one of the three bases. We kept the pressure on management, and with the help of the AFL-CIO, we bombarded Arpey with thousands of emails demanding that all three bases be kept open.

As you have noted, we also got city and state officials to help us keep the bases open in Tulsa and Kansas City. This didn’t just happen on its own. With the help of the AFL-CIO, we reached out to the public officials and worked with them to ensure that the bases remained open.

With regard to these efforts, I wish you had read our first mailing that explained the benefits of AFL-CIO affiliation and political involvement. Unlike AMFA, we are fully engaged in the political process and wield considerable political influence. It is through this involvement that we successfully convinced state and local leaders to support our members’ interests. We fought to get the tax initiative passed in Tulsa and the bond initiative passed in Kansas City. If you don’t believe that the TWU played a critical role in getting these initiatives passed, start reading the newspapers.

 

[Buck]

You did not answer the question.

 

[Bob Owens]

Buck is a follower; he very rarely does anything without Dave and Don pulling his strings. He has little knowledge beyond his world.

Between Dave wanting members to be laid off and Buck unwilling to preserve work there is little else to say!!!!

I think Jim Little did an excellent job in responding to ken's email!

And what are you? A leader?!!!!

A leader who hides behind an alias shouting out lies and accusations! A leader who does as he is told?

God help us!

 

[Johnny Lunchbox]

Is Bob Owens your real name or a fat alias?

 

[Buck]

Ok Bob now you have to give up.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Is Bob Owens your real name or a fat alias?

JL, it has only taken you 4 posts before you resorted to typical twu actions of childish actions. How many posts before you post the truth about the twu's ineptness in protecting our profession?
Bob is man enough to state facts while using his real name. The twu posts lies and half truths behind an alias. This makes you a coward. Pure and simple. Step out into the light... the warmth feels good.

 

[High Speed Steel]

Yeah Johnny Lunchbox, Kenny Boy wants to know your name so the next time he see's ya he can flick a booger on ya...! Kenny Boy wants you to be accountable! He must be one of the AMFA Organizing Committee members that voted not to have TWU Informer be accountable to the membership he is trying to solicit...! Remeber Accountability Lane is a ONE-WAY Street in the eyes of AMFA...!

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AMFA: The YUGO of the labor movement
Where barganing means YOU GO....!