Why I Voted Yes

[Just the Facts II]

I simply cannot believe you goofs are falling for this line vs. overhaul garbage.We are one group.One seniority list.What happens to one affects the other.We at the line do have the advantage of interacting with other employee groups more then TULE.Therefore the company's lies are more readily apparent, and the TWU cannot use tools like Hewett to advance the international agenda without us seeing what is really at play.I'm a line guy.I voted no mostly because this will gut Tulsa.No job protection.None.No Eagle ASM cap.They can run an unlimited parallel operation.So many articles do not even have finished language.Are you going to go on someones word that this will "save jobs" even when the contract language itself says that it won't?I'm an average line mech at ORD, no hidden agenda,I want the best for all of us and this isn't it.

I stand with you in wanting the best for all of us, however by examining this LBO2 or the term sheet, it is obvious to me that the company does not value base maintenance.
Because of that attitude, all mechanic wages and benefits are being trashed no matter where you work, base or line.
I believe that within six years whether this POS2 passes or the term sheet is implemented, the Tulsa base will likely not exist under AA, but as a seperate entity or purchased by a third party MRO.
The base is simply competing with MRO's and that is all that the bean counters like Horton will ever see. Horton has always wanted to dump maintenance and is no longer willing to pay base mechs more than simple MRO's. So like it or not, the company has indeed made this about line vs base.
Only after the base is decimated one way or another, can line mechanics hope to make even industry standards.
It is my opinion that the base is just an MRO to the company and will be treated as such. Whether it is under POS2, or, if not ratified, the company will drag out section 6 and it's term sheet long enough to accomplish ejecting the base and/or replacing the MD80s, or a far fetched idea, have seperate contracts for base and line. In any case, when the MD80s are gone, so is the base as it exists now under AA.
So, I believe we are looking at 2 years at best under the term sheet before the line gets what it wants and the base is spun off. Probably 8 years if POS2 passes since everyone will be making MRO wages.
I am a mechanic at the Tulsa base and this is just reality as I see it. I will likely end up on the line someday, somewhere.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Of course it will pass. Why would anyone in their right mind vote no and let the creditors decide their fate. Honestly, to vote no is just dumb.

"Dumb"?

You must be insane. To vote yes is stupid. To vote yes on a contract that still has unwritten language is stupid. To vote yes on a contract that willingly gives the company the right to screw our craaft & profession is stupid.

Vote NO! That is the rational, sane thing to do.

 

[Flying low]

I stand with you in wanting the best for all of us, however by examining this LBO2 or the term sheet, it is obvious to me that the company does not value base maintenance.

We all knew that once horton was promoted to ceo/pres.

 

[Overspeed]

"Dumb"?

You must be insane. To vote yes is stupid. To vote yes on a contract that still has unwritten language is stupid. To vote yes on a contract that willingly gives the company the right to screw our craaft & profession is stupid.

Vote NO! That is the rational, sane thing to do.

To tell people to give back their AIP checks then accept $3,000 from the same company that is trying to destroy and outsource your job, THAT'S stupid. To accept money from an organization (ARSA) that wants the 145 Repair Station licensing ban dropped so more work can be outsourced, THAT'S stupid. To ask and accept for help on a transfer and get strings pulled by an Int'l rep so you can get to DFW and then talk sh*t about him, THAT'S stupid.

 

[High Speed Steel]

To tell people to give back their AIP checks then accept $3,000 from the same company that is trying to destroy and outsource your job, THAT'S stupid. To accept money from an organization (ARSA) that wants the 145 Repair Station licensing ban dropped so more work can be outsourced, THAT'S stupid. To ask and accept for help on a transfer and get strings pulled by an Int'l rep so you can get to DFW and then talk sh*t about him, THAT'S stupid.

Overspeed, I don't give much credit to a mouse with ears.....Besides, he ran back to SAN with his tail between his legs

 

[Strake]

Overspeed, I don't give much credit to a mouse with ears.....Besides, he ran back to SAN with his tail between his legs

Yeah no shite.... Mouse Man still thinks we're voting on a contract.... Wow, just wow.

 

[Mr Red]

The AA/TWU MANIFESTO Brought to you by TheTWU INTERNATIONAL who don't have to live under IT!
And CENTER PORK who will laugh all the way to the BANK !!!!
VOTE NO !!!

 

[riceweevil]

This is why. Makes more sense than anything any of the naysayers have come up with.

"The theory that there will be either expeditious negotiations or a quick release in the wake of the rejection of our contract by the Bankruptcy Court is, at best, pure speculation. What is not speculation is that, while this process is playing out over the course of years the membership will be unneccessarily fuloughed or downgraded. The bottom line is that no work group has ever fared better after having its contract rejected in bankruptcy and those advocating such strategy will be unable to point to a single instance in which it worked."

So get to pointing all you industry sages out there!



grrrrrr

How do you know that Judge Lane will abrogate the current labor agreements and impose the Term Sheets?

 

[FWAAA]

How do you know that Judge Lane will abrogate the current labor agreements and impose the Term Sheets?

Judge Lane won't abrogate the current agreements and impose anything.

All he'll do is either grant or deny AA's motion. If he grants the motion (practically guaranteed), then AA is free to impose new terms.

 

[riceweevil]

Judge Lane won't abrogate the current agreements and impose anything.

All he'll do is either grant or deny AA's motion. If he grants the motion (practically guaranteed), then AA is free to impose new terms.

Do you think AA REALLY WANTS TO IMPOSE THE TERM SHEETS? If they impose the Term Sheets then they will throw their Company into caos by getting rid of 4100 Title 1 employees and dealing with the left over carnage.The AA management cannot/or will not even make any basic decisions much less know how to handle imposing the Term Sheets.
The old attage applies to AA management here " Be careful what you ask for because you might actually get it"

 

[FWAAA]

Do you think AA REALLY WANTS TO IMPOSE THE TERM SHEETS? If they impose the Term Sheets then they will throw their Company into caos by getting rid of 4100 Title 1 employees and dealing with the left over carnage.The AA management cannot/or will not even make any basic decisions much less know how to handle imposing the Term Sheets.
The old attage applies to AA management here " Be careful what you ask for because you might actually get it"

You may want to read my post again. I didn't say that AA would impose the term sheets. I said that if the judge grants AA's motion, AA would be free to impose new terms. I don't pretend to know what terms AA would impose.

The law in the Second Circuit permits the debtor to impose the initial demand (the term sheets) but I don't know whether AA would impose those terms or something closer to the failed TAs/LBOs.

 

[AC Tynker]

It is about progression and you appear to be okay with regression.

I guess appearances are deceiving depending on what progression and regression you are referring to. Care to share instead of the trying to be cryptic or whatever you may call it ? I liked it better when you put your all into making me laugh.

 

[Buck]

I guess appearances are deceiving depending on what progression and regression you are referring to. Care to share instead of the trying to be cryptic or whatever you may call it ? I liked it better when you put your all into making me laugh.

I believe in a mechanics union and you appear to want industrial unionism. We are far apart in that aspect. I believe that the political contributions of our dues are a waste. I believe that the TWU International is corrupt, without the ability of the membership having the right of recall.

Who is Gary Drummond?

 

[AC Tynker]

I believe in a mechanics union and you appear to want industrial unionism. We are far apart in that aspect. I believe that the political contributions of our dues are a waste. I believe that the TWU International is corrupt, without the ability of the membership having the right of recall.

Who is Gary Drummond?

I never advocated any type Union on here. I have been somewhat neutral except for when it comes to AMFA. One of the main reasons I am against it I have stated before it is because of what people that are promoting it convey. It may be totally different than what I and others have been introduced to through promoters at AA . The militant us against the company, if you don't believe what I say 100% then you are 100% wrong. The AMFA guys at WN have even stated on here that they have told their supervisors they wanted to keep the lines of communication open to make sure the goal stayed common with them. The face of AMFA I have seen at AA is totally opposite and no I don't buy into what you guys have made it. I have also stated that whoever represents us I will support and do my part however small even if it were to be AMFA. You know and I know who Gary Drummond is and we both know how positions are obtained throughout the ATD and the International so you can save your quiz. Like I said the wannabe militant stance is not appealing as an AMT. If I wanted to live that I would have stayed in the Army Infantry where it is more than accepted, it is expected.

aapitbull confuses me as a IBT advocate and you a TWU advocate and that's fine but in reality I am just a Union advocate and a ticketed AMT.

 

[Strake]

How do you know that Judge Lane will abrogate the current labor agreements and impose the Term Sheets?

I think the Judge will abrogate the contracts and the creditors will impose the term sheets if given the chance. It's all about the money. Their money. Not our money.