I'm leaving also 22 years but taking the buyout
VOTE YES !
- Thread starter Blueweng48
- Start date
I'm leaving also 22 years but taking the buyout
No guarantee you will get it. Just because it is in the LBO.
The devil is in the details. How many will get it, what age and how much time with the company and so on are all details that need to be verified not just agreed upon.
OP
Blueweng48
Member
- Aug 3, 2012
- 35
- 14
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #79
Best of luck Brother and God Bless
OP
Blueweng48
Member
- Aug 3, 2012
- 35
- 14
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #80
Just because you take the job protection out does not mean there will be more people laid off. We didn't have it when i came here and i have never been laid off. Don't slam Gary, at least he got involved and did more than most people. He has more union backbone than most of our members, he makes the meetings at least, and only about 100 other people can say that. It will cause less lay offs with a YES VOTE so do what is best for your family, but don't try to misslead those that are going to be affected with a no vote.
AGAIN I ask you and you have not answered, how will the membership be better off with a NO VOTE?
AC Tynker
Senior
- Jun 24, 2012
- 481
- 107
Most don't care about that here in Tulsa because it's TWU which is lame if you ask me because no matter what, it is the Union we have at the moment. I have also heard the "Your out of Order Brother" from so may people that it supposedly happened to I don't think they could have finished a meeting in under 3hrs without the minutes being nothing but that comment.
have a wonderful life
Yup, gonna be "Life After Aviation" for a lot of folks here at AA no matter what the vote..!!
Overspeed
Veteran
- Jun 27, 2011
- 3,245
- 1,065
Really? That's all you got?
The real problem is believing Peterson, Ruiz, Owens, and Rojas. All the APA, APFA, and TWU senior leadership is telling their members to accept the deals and that abrogation is an almost certainty.
Vote no and let's see if the vote no coalition can prove all the experts wrong.
How long did it take you to cut and paste their names over and over again? Very creative and took a lot of thought and effort...not!
Supercat575sci
Newbie
- Apr 17, 2012
- 11
- 4
TWU informer
Veteran
- Nov 4, 2003
- 7,550
- 3,731
Some openly wilful sinners are like this madman. The commands of the law are as chains and fetters, to restrain sinners from their wicked courses; but they break those bands in sunder; and it is an evidence of the power of the devil in them. A legion of soldiers consisted of six thousand men, or more. What multitudes of fallen spirits there must be, and all enemies to God and man, when here was a legion in one poor wretched creature! Many there are that rise up against us. We are not a match for our spiritual enemies, in our own strength; but in the Lord, and in the power of his might, we shall be able to stand against them, though there are legions of them. When the vilest transgressor is delivered by the power of Jesus from the bondage of Satan, he will gladly sit at the feet of his Deliverer, and hear his word, who delivers the wretched slaves of Satan, and numbers them among his saints and servants. When the people found that their swine were lost, they had a dislike to Christ. Long-suffering and mercy may be seen, even in the corrections by which men lose their property while their lives are saved, and warning given them to seek the salvation of their souls. The man joyfully proclaimed what great things Jesus had done for him. All men marvelled, but few followed him. Many who cannot but wonder at the works of Christ, yet do not, as they ought, wonder after him.
Overspeed
Veteran
- Jun 27, 2011
- 3,245
- 1,065
I remember you! Your the one that was used as the example during the ASAP debrief on people who are using "one word" signoffs. Damn, the Feds really wanted you. Good thing the TWU blocked them. You are hilarious though.
Why should I or anyone believe you? Those guys are leaders and are looking out for our best interest. What are you looking out for? We do not even know who you are.
Your trying to lead here like a union official but yet who are you? Have you posted letters from your local? Informed the membership with videos that explain the LBO and how it will or will not help us? Are you in Negotiations? So why should we all believe you when you slam the local presidents for doing their elected duty?
Believe the senior membership? You referring to the International officers? The ones that do NOT have to live with this LBO? The same International officers that are held unaccountable to no one?
No thank you.
I'm Voting NO!!
My seniority number went down about 300. That is above me. Below me was another 300 or so. That's my numbers.
Overspeed
Veteran
- Jun 27, 2011
- 3,245
- 1,065
Which means you are voting for abrogation. The creditors and all the members of AA senior management are so happy you are voting no. Outsourcing will increase, no pay raises, and no 401(k) match is their dream. Now that will make their stock options worth more at the expense or your paycheck and jobs. I guess you like paying more for health insurance while getting no pay raise. Better make adjustments to your expenses now, your net pay will be dropping August 16th.
TWU informer
Veteran
- Nov 4, 2003
- 7,550
- 3,731
Fellow APA Pilots,
We have less than a week before the final tabulation results of American Airlines Last Best Final Offer is revealed. I would be terribly remiss if I did NOT disclose to the membership a dialog session which transpired in Marina Del Rey, CA. The locale was the Warehouse, a restaurant, and I was accompanied by 15 fellow pilots of the LAX domicile, ranging from line pilots, check airmen, Flight Department Pilots who all dined with Captain John Hale and Senior VP of Operations, Mr. Jim Ream.
The meeting occurred on the eve of July 26th. Captain Hale was the financial host of the get together which was arranged specifically to give both Captain Hale and Mr. Ream a cross stratification from the most Junior in our base ranks to the most Senior, from managerial types to union advocates, for the sole purpose of edifying where the rank and file actually stand on this LBFO.
Once dinner was concluded, the small talk ceased as we moved to a more private setting in the restaurant where Captain Hale delivered some opening remarks then handed off the dialog to Mr. Ream who gave us a Macro Economic overview of American Airlines and the goals and Objectives he and others are trying to achieve.
After an opening question by one of our former negotiators was posed regarding the culture of distrust and apparent over reach of this TA, I followed on to ask Mr. Ream a multi faceted question relevant to his Macro vision, which is the heart of my post today.
I stated to Mr. Ream, since it is the public posture of APA for regime change with US AIR being the desired player, that the equity ploy (including F/As & mechanics) would still leave organized labor 15% short of a blocking vote. I felt the POR blocking strategy was indeed a long shot and would very possibly still find us working under a very draconian TA for the next 10 years.
I further stated, I feel American would pursue purchasing JetBlue. Therefore, the existing TA as it stands, leaves the American Airline pilot exposed.
In short, I explained that I felt manipulated and used by BOTH sides and he would not achieve labor peace with the pilots when the depth of deception was revealed. He appeared surprised by how much push back he was sensing from the pilots for he had been led to believe that this TA was a good deal for the pilots inside of bankruptcy.
My question was could He alter the TA before the vote was tabulated, if we could propose a viable argument for why such amendment was necessary.
Mr. Ream responded:
(Not exact quotes, but accurate content, vetted by three other pilots present.)
1) It is the desire of AAL to purchase JetBlue. This would be completed through a complex deal including debt, private equity and preferential shares. He explained that we are far along the road to negotiating this deal and the critical part is HAVING Contracts in place with LABOR. He further acknowledged that the same people that would be loaning us the money for Americans desired POR were consolidating Americans debt. By doing this, they are buying debt at a discounted rate, gaining power on the UCC and have little exposure for they know the financing is viable to emerge from BK.
2) IF the TA were to be voted down by a close margin, they would immediately RE-negotiate to gain a speedy solution with labor. Time being the critical factor to American Airlines due to the in place financing. He stated, the labor stress just ADDS to the Cost of Financing.
3) IF the TA passes, they have done their job for the creditors and have achieved the best deal possible for the debtors.
4) He indicated that changing the TA at this late stage was problematic. The money factor being locked and reported to the UCC. However, he wanted to hear what the pilots felt were the problem areas of the TA.
Dinner was concluded and some very valuable information was exchanged between all parties in attendance. The remainder of the eve was spent discussing the TA and how it affects the pilots. Mr. Ream asked those in attendance to send him 5 bullet points they would want to see in TA #2.
Friday / 27 July:
I was informed that a pilot who was present, had written a debrief and forwarded it to Negotiating Chairman Neil Roghair as well as both LAX Base Representatives.
The remainder of my day was spent sending the attendees 5 Bullet points to Captain Hale and Captain Smith.
Saturday / 28 July:
Captain Hale informed me he was going to be addressing MR. Horton, Ms. Denise Lynn (HR) and would be informing them of the pilots view of this TA from our dialog session.
I assured Captain Hale I would not disclose nor campaign the content of the Warehouse Revelations for five days to allow him to possibly get an internal solution to the very defective TA.
In Conclusion,
True to my word, I promised not to disclose nor discuss the events of 26 July 2012 in order to allow Captain Hale to affect an amendment. Nothing has transpired from either Captain Hales focused efforts, nor has the APA in any official capacity commented on these developments.
PLEASE, Understand this.
1) Americans Stand Alone Plan is fictitious JetBlue is their goal.
2) The APA is so myopic on management change that we are continuing a course of action, so shaky and anemic in terms of substantiation to the failed logic of you wont have to fly under it.
3) If you Vote YES / In favor of this LBFO, you will likely suffer under its compromised content for a minimum of six years.
4) If you elect to REJECT this TA, American will renegotiate to gain a labor agreement.
5) Last, but certainly not least, I am staking my own personal reputation behind stating these facts of the evenings dialog. My passionate pursuit of doing what is right has led me to revealing these details to you today.
Ladies and Gentlemen of the APA, look within your soul and please find the strength to vote with your dignity intact and overcome your fear.
We have less than a week before the final tabulation results of American Airlines Last Best Final Offer is revealed. I would be terribly remiss if I did NOT disclose to the membership a dialog session which transpired in Marina Del Rey, CA. The locale was the Warehouse, a restaurant, and I was accompanied by 15 fellow pilots of the LAX domicile, ranging from line pilots, check airmen, Flight Department Pilots who all dined with Captain John Hale and Senior VP of Operations, Mr. Jim Ream.
The meeting occurred on the eve of July 26th. Captain Hale was the financial host of the get together which was arranged specifically to give both Captain Hale and Mr. Ream a cross stratification from the most Junior in our base ranks to the most Senior, from managerial types to union advocates, for the sole purpose of edifying where the rank and file actually stand on this LBFO.
Once dinner was concluded, the small talk ceased as we moved to a more private setting in the restaurant where Captain Hale delivered some opening remarks then handed off the dialog to Mr. Ream who gave us a Macro Economic overview of American Airlines and the goals and Objectives he and others are trying to achieve.
After an opening question by one of our former negotiators was posed regarding the culture of distrust and apparent over reach of this TA, I followed on to ask Mr. Ream a multi faceted question relevant to his Macro vision, which is the heart of my post today.
I stated to Mr. Ream, since it is the public posture of APA for regime change with US AIR being the desired player, that the equity ploy (including F/As & mechanics) would still leave organized labor 15% short of a blocking vote. I felt the POR blocking strategy was indeed a long shot and would very possibly still find us working under a very draconian TA for the next 10 years.
I further stated, I feel American would pursue purchasing JetBlue. Therefore, the existing TA as it stands, leaves the American Airline pilot exposed.
In short, I explained that I felt manipulated and used by BOTH sides and he would not achieve labor peace with the pilots when the depth of deception was revealed. He appeared surprised by how much push back he was sensing from the pilots for he had been led to believe that this TA was a good deal for the pilots inside of bankruptcy.
My question was could He alter the TA before the vote was tabulated, if we could propose a viable argument for why such amendment was necessary.
Mr. Ream responded:
(Not exact quotes, but accurate content, vetted by three other pilots present.)
1) It is the desire of AAL to purchase JetBlue. This would be completed through a complex deal including debt, private equity and preferential shares. He explained that we are far along the road to negotiating this deal and the critical part is HAVING Contracts in place with LABOR. He further acknowledged that the same people that would be loaning us the money for Americans desired POR were consolidating Americans debt. By doing this, they are buying debt at a discounted rate, gaining power on the UCC and have little exposure for they know the financing is viable to emerge from BK.
2) IF the TA were to be voted down by a close margin, they would immediately RE-negotiate to gain a speedy solution with labor. Time being the critical factor to American Airlines due to the in place financing. He stated, the labor stress just ADDS to the Cost of Financing.
3) IF the TA passes, they have done their job for the creditors and have achieved the best deal possible for the debtors.
4) He indicated that changing the TA at this late stage was problematic. The money factor being locked and reported to the UCC. However, he wanted to hear what the pilots felt were the problem areas of the TA.
Dinner was concluded and some very valuable information was exchanged between all parties in attendance. The remainder of the eve was spent discussing the TA and how it affects the pilots. Mr. Ream asked those in attendance to send him 5 bullet points they would want to see in TA #2.
Friday / 27 July:
I was informed that a pilot who was present, had written a debrief and forwarded it to Negotiating Chairman Neil Roghair as well as both LAX Base Representatives.
The remainder of my day was spent sending the attendees 5 Bullet points to Captain Hale and Captain Smith.
Saturday / 28 July:
Captain Hale informed me he was going to be addressing MR. Horton, Ms. Denise Lynn (HR) and would be informing them of the pilots view of this TA from our dialog session.
I assured Captain Hale I would not disclose nor campaign the content of the Warehouse Revelations for five days to allow him to possibly get an internal solution to the very defective TA.
In Conclusion,
True to my word, I promised not to disclose nor discuss the events of 26 July 2012 in order to allow Captain Hale to affect an amendment. Nothing has transpired from either Captain Hales focused efforts, nor has the APA in any official capacity commented on these developments.
PLEASE, Understand this.
1) Americans Stand Alone Plan is fictitious JetBlue is their goal.
2) The APA is so myopic on management change that we are continuing a course of action, so shaky and anemic in terms of substantiation to the failed logic of you wont have to fly under it.
3) If you Vote YES / In favor of this LBFO, you will likely suffer under its compromised content for a minimum of six years.
4) If you elect to REJECT this TA, American will renegotiate to gain a labor agreement.
5) Last, but certainly not least, I am staking my own personal reputation behind stating these facts of the evenings dialog. My passionate pursuit of doing what is right has led me to revealing these details to you today.
Ladies and Gentlemen of the APA, look within your soul and please find the strength to vote with your dignity intact and overcome your fear.
