Vote no demonstration in Tulsa

[TLW]

VOTE NO!!!!!!

 

[Mr Red]

I didn't say what you or the rest of the vote no crowd are saying is false.
I look at it as the vote no crowd is pushing their agenda real hard, the same as the vote yes crowd.
To me, anyone typing in capitol letters (same as yelling) or typing in 56 or bigger point fonts taking up a 1/2 page, is using intimidation and pressure.

i will try to be more gentle with u.

 

[1AA]

Looks like fun

http://www.ktul.com/...&autoStart=true

I saw the video, one poster commented that the girl in stores is a full time union employee. She was not properly rehearsed. Little does she know that a low timer will be laid off regardless if this LBO passes. Then management gets in on the action. That's a desperate move. The union gets out there with their vote yes group. First time I have seen this. The union is worried and so is management. I have never seen so much infighting in my life.
The company is against us.
The Union is against us.
The union is more interested in having their legal fees covered more than trying to
be a union and support the members.
Unionism 101 has drifted away from the TWU's agenda.
The Yes voters do not care or are misinformed.
This vote should have never taken place.
How sad.... -_-

Fun it is not.

 

[Overspeed]

One big problem we have here is there is a huge division at local 514. In my opinion since there is such a big division if I was a TWU official, I would try to get an injunction to stop this vote. (don't even know if this is possible, but if I was a lawyer I wouldn't be here) and then get everyone together to figure out the next step. It is clear that a large portion (hopefully more than half) of the M&R group are tired of giving away pay and benefits to see their wages at the bottom of the industry while EVERY OTHER work group including management are paid at industry average or above. But the international and local don't seem to care. As a matter of fact, they are fighting harder against their own members than they did against the company. If you remember, back in 2003 Jim Little went to a federal judge to squash an attempt to void the vote since important information was deliberately kept from us before the vote. This is not the kind of union we need. I have seen the TWU brag about how militant they are and how they fight for 27 years, but I have only seen them fight hard a few times.
1- They fought tooth and nail to prevent seperate negotiations.
2- They fought hard to defeat the AMFA drive.
3- They fought and sued the members to force the 2003 agreement on us that they co-conspired with the company. and
4- They are fighting like hell to force mechanics to take a much bigger share of more concessions.

If I missed any then please accept my apologies, but the pattern here is that TWU historically has fought their own membership.
A former plumber who is now a six figured salaried appointed international employee stood out there yesterday fighting to deny AMTs basic benefits. These benefits are enjoyed by other airlines as well as other TWU employee groups at AA. This TWU official enjoys all of those that we used to have as well as many more we never had nor will ever get. I call again for Rick Mullings to put his money where his mouth is and resign from the international so he can live with the same concessions that he is trying to force us to accept. If this is the kind of leadership you yes voters want, you can have it. Mullings makes the best case for AMFA.

We have had separate negotiations since the 2001 agreement.

If someone is raiding your organization with an another union that has not done anything to prevent outsourcing at UA, NW, and AS it makes sense you would fight them.

The court case had to do with who "owned" the contract and all labor unions own the contract, not the membership. When you file a grievance it becomes property of the union and the union leadership determines the course of action per the CBA. You as the grievant can say you want it to go forward but the leadership determines if there is sufficient merit. Same goes with the CBA, the union owns the contract and that goes for AMFA as well. Why did the UA or AS membership not sue AMFA when they did not enforce the existing outsourcing language? Didn't OV stated during the AMFA BK that the members knew the risks were too high in BK court? Yes. The union owns the contract and the court reaffirmed that.

No the TWU is fighting like hell to reduce the amount of concession being forced upon us in the 1113c process. If you vote no AA will push the judge to abrogate. After the 15th we will most likely get slammed with concessions that will amount to no raise, deeper benefit cuts, and more job loss. Both the APA and APFA realize this and our informing their members that they are convinced the judge will abrogate. The TWU is not fighting for you to take concessions, they are doing only what they can to mitigate the ones will have to take. No one in the Int'l has said this is a great deal but instead stated this is better than abrogation based on real expert testimony and counsel.

 

[aapitbull]

Hey you were at least listening. Wasn't for sure if you could hear me since some of my comments were directed to you and your pittbull pal, hey what about that $35.82 Informer, your gonna jump on it aren't ya....

No sign, no comment....you're voting YES on the TA

I heard your whining, I like Informer have very little time to scream at someone I know will not hear me. You are narrow minded and lack the ability to think for yourself you follow a failed idea in industrial unionism and I have given up trying to change your mind.You have seen the facts and choose to ignore them why should I lose my voice yelling at you when I can give interveiws to the media and talk to those who are willing to at least listen.

As far as the money goes I voted no in 2010 and that was a better deal than this one so, I think you know what I am going to do just in case you do not understand.

I will Vote NO!

 

[OldGuy@AA]

To set the record straight Raptorman does not like or listen to any International reps & his issue with Mullins has nothing to do with whether or not he is in the International nothing in my post or any of his previous post's indicated it was an International issue ! please don't make stuff up he was surprised that you would do something like that.

Just got another text from Raptorman. Apparently his text yesterday was not intended to mock. I misundestood and I have apologized to him and now do it on this forum. As you know, he stood out there with me before the previous vote. So my bad.

 

[aapitbull]

I watched the ktul video and the compelling thing within the video for me was the company dude who basically said "we don't want to do it, but we may be forced to impose the March 22, 2012 Term Sheet if M&R rejects this Tenative Agreement"....That's what I got out of the video....

That shows what a fool you are if the Judge says they can abrogate the contract the company is free to impose LBO2 if they choose so for you to set here and say that is compelling shows your ignorance of the issue the company can impose the term sheet or LBO1 or LBO2 if the judge says ok.So if they say we do not want to good then don't you cannot be that thick to buy that crap.

 

[Tulsamechanic9]

I saw the video, one poster commented that the girl in stores is a full time union employee. She was not properly rehearsed. Little does she know that a low timer will be laid off regardless if this LBO passes. Then management gets in on the action. That's a desperate move. The union gets out there with their vote yes group. First time I have seen this. The union is worried and so is management. I have never seen so much infighting in my life.
The company is against us.
The Union is against us.
The union is more interested in having their legal fees covered more than trying to
be a union and support the members.
Unionism 101 has drifted away from the TWU's agenda.
The Yes voters do not care or are misinformed.
This vote should have never taken place.
How sad.... -_-

Fun it is not.

Actually I agree that non of this is fun, friends picking different sides & fighting with each other isn't much fun, I am looking forward to this being over.

 

[Tulsamechanic9]

Just got another text from Raptorman. Apparently his text yesterday was not intended to mock. I misundestood and I have apologized to him and now do it on this forum. As you know, he stood out there with me before the previous vote. So my bad.

I respect anyone who fights for what they believe in regardless of which side their on, this will affect everyone working for AA, had I been on the corner I would not have been yelling anything to the other side, the fact is their are thousands of members who are doing nothing but being apathetic, I was one of those people, it was actually Raptorman & a couple others that convinced me to become more involved in fighting for what I want to happen instead of just voting & nothing more, I am trying to do that but being an extrovert like some is not in my nature so it is difficult.

 

[1AA]

The fighting continues. Yes, No, save jobs, blaa, blaa, blaa.
I like the part where one says we get a substantial raise and 1500 jobs will be saved.
How about the lack of job security and medical expenses rising and lose of pension and retirement medical? That must have been over looked.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?subjectid=585&articleid=20120803_45_E1_CUTLIN465737

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

We have had separate negotiations since the 2001 agreement.

If someone is raiding your organization with an another union that has not done anything to prevent outsourcing at UA, NW, and AS it makes sense you would fight them.

The court case had to do with who "owned" the contract and all labor unions own the contract, not the membership. When you file a grievance it becomes property of the union and the union leadership determines the course of action per the CBA. You as the grievant can say you want it to go forward but the leadership determines if there is sufficient merit. Same goes with the CBA, the union owns the contract and that goes for AMFA as well. Why did the UA or AS membership not sue AMFA when they did not enforce the existing outsourcing language? Didn't OV stated during the AMFA BK that the members knew the risks were too high in BK court? Yes. The union owns the contract and the court reaffirmed that.

No the TWU is fighting like hell to reduce the amount of concession being forced upon us in the 1113c process. If you vote no AA will push the judge to abrogate. After the 15th we will most likely get slammed with concessions that will amount to no raise, deeper benefit cuts, and more job loss. Both the APA and APFA realize this and our informing their members that they are convinced the judge will abrogate. The TWU is not fighting for you to take concessions, they are doing only what they can to mitigate the ones will have to take. No one in the Int'l has said this is a great deal but instead stated this is better than abrogation based on real expert testimony and counsel.

Hey speedie,

With AMFA the membership owns the contract.

"No one in the Int'l has said this is a great deal but instead stated this is better than abrogation based on real expert testimony and counsel."

BS! gary drummond put out a letter stating we should vote yes!

 

[Mired in AA Mediocrity]

VOTE NO ! ! !

 

[TWU informer]

VOTE NO!!

 

[OldGuy@AA]

I respect anyone who fights for what they believe in regardless of which side their on, this will affect everyone working for AA, had I been on the corner I would not have been yelling anything to the other side, the fact is their are thousands of members who are doing nothing but being apathetic, I was one of those people, it was actually Raptorman & a couple others that convinced me to become more involved in fighting for what I want to happen instead of just voting & nothing more, I am trying to do that but being an extrovert like some is not in my nature so it is difficult.

Like I said before, holding a sign is easy. Yes I stood out there holding a sign just to show no voters they were not alone. One day I was alone, the next time one man joined me. The next time many joined me. Now more want to join me at another time. I am pleasantly surprised at this. It gives me an idea. Maybe I will make a new sign and hold it out in front of the union hall before the next meeting. It will simply read "Change". Could this have the same effect on people? Will enough be motivated to actually join together and demand this change? maybe this is just an OldGuy's dream. The point is that we cannot do this as individuals. We must be together and not settle for anything but what we deserve. So if you see an OldGuy holding a sign in front of the union hall before a meeting, think about where we are and where we could be if we got together and fought. There are those in power in the TWU that have created division in order to prevent us from joining together and demanding that ALL of our interests are considered when negotiating instead of looking for a 50% plus one. Just remember. Holding the sign is easy. Fighting for what is right is hard. It takes time, and dedication. In the process people will hate you for what you believe. I do not hate people who disagree with me on these issues. I respect those who actually will have to live with the results of this vote and have none whatsoever for those who will lose nothing but are using fear and lies to convince my coworkers to vote away their futures by giving AA a blank check. The lines have been drawn and both sides have beaten the horse to death. My position is well known. I have no illusions of changing anyone's mind as to how they should vote. I pray all voters study all issues and make the best choice that they can. Don't take anyone's word. Do your research and make up your own mind. I pray for the correct result.

 

[comatose]

Actually I agree that non of this is fun, friends picking different sides & fighting with each other isn't much fun, I am looking forward to this being over.

Over? I think it's just beginning.