Locals Stripped of Representation

[TWU informer]

Oh great another TWU Secret Keeper has arrived to post.

 

[MTheory]

Oh great another TWU Secret Keeper has arrived to post.

"SHTHSLWYR" does bring up some good points. It seems to me some people think its OK to resort to kindergarden name calling when others dont agree with their point of view. Being outspoken on issues is one thing. Name calling is another.

Some here may not like Gilboy's approach, but thats for his members to address. If you dont like how he does things, just explain why and move on.

I would have hoped that my local president would have exercised better judgement before calling Gilboy a "Company man". If he wants other members of the Negotiating Committee to listen to his concerns, and properly represent me....he needs to learn to put a filter between his brain and his mouth, or fingers.

Owens has some very good points, and a passion for the job. I cant take that away from him. But his actions have seriously impeded his ability to convey his points to his collegues, and has isolated our Local from the rest of the negotiating committee.

You can not serve the membership from the outside of a locked door.

 

[shthslwyr]

Oh great another TWU Secret Keeper has arrived to post.

Nah, I know what's going on, and it's no secret. Besides, there's no keeping secrets on here, everybody knows everything; just ask them.

 

[Hopeful]

Oh great another TWU Secret Keeper has arrived to post.

Yea, he and his 4 posts are going to set us straight.

 

[Hopeful]

. I commend Steve for his integrity and I believe that Bob owes him an apology for his unkind and intemperate comments about him.

I

I guess Bob is not owed an apology for being physically threatened by the Miami local rep, is he?

And with respect to what other presidents' positions are, we'll never know unless they break their silence.

The bottom line is that ALL OF US are going to take it in the shorts again..The company wants to give us NOTHING.....And we will get nothing because of the company's unwillingness to bargain in good faith. So whatever Bob or Gilboy's approach's are, unless the TWU decides to get serious and tough with AA, then yes the sheep will prevail.

 

[shthslwyr]

Yea, he and his 4 posts are going to set us straight.

Yea, Lord knows that you and your 3,620 posts have set the world afire

 

[shthslwyr]

I guess Bob is not owed an apology for being physically threatened by the Miami local rep, is he?

And with respect to what other presidents' positions are, we'll never know unless they break their silence.

The bottom line is that ALL OF US are going to take it in the shorts again..The company wants to give us NOTHING.....And we will get nothing because of the company's unwillingness to bargain in good faith. So whatever Bob or Gilboy's approach's are, unless the TWU decides to get serious and tough with AA, then yes the sheep will prevail.

What does one apology have to do with the other? It certainly isn't Gilboy's apology to make, nor does what happened between those two excuse or justify bad behavior toward anyone else. Of course Bob is owed an apology for being physically threatened, as he should apologize for publically impugning the honor and intentions of others who are trying to do the best they can under very challenging conditions. How in the world are we going to get tough with AA when we can't even turn our guns away from each other?

People who don't agree with you about how we should go about getting what we need from AA are not sheep just because they think it might be a bad idea to to attempt to get AA to change course by shooting a hole in the bottom of our own boat. Those of you who are fond of likening our situation to that of the founding of our country would be well advised to keep in mind that with limited resources and few options if defeated, the Generals who fought that war were always careful not to engage in battle on a field that favored their enemy. Sometimes discretion is the greater part of valor, and the object is to live to fight another day.<_<

 

[TWU informer]

I will not speak to the specifics of why regional pay was removed from the table out of respect for Steve's committment not to disclose the business of the negotiating committee, but I absolutely guarantee you that if you speak to other presidents beside Bob, you will get a version of the story that is so breathtakingly at variance with what you've been told as to be a difference in kind rather than degree.

TWU Secrets .....Really? Why would other Presidents tell us the facts and you wont? Seems they would gagged by the same "committment" the friend in your pcoket named Stave has. What Steve is committed to non-disclosure except when he talks to you?

 

[Hopeful]

Yea, Lord knows that you and your 3,620 posts have set the world afire

Not quite, I've argued and debated here on just about every topic...unlike you who just popped up when your boy Gilboy was spoken of...You seem to have a personal interest in Gilboy.

 

[1AA]

I will not speak to the specifics of why regional pay was removed from the table out of respect for Steve's committment not to disclose the business of the negotiating committee, but I absolutely guarantee you that if you speak to other presidents beside Bob, you will get a version of the story that is so breathtakingly at variance with what you've been told as to be a difference in kind rather than degree. I do know one thing: In October 2007, a full fourteen months before Bob ever showed up, regional pay was put on the table for the first time in recent AA/TWU negotiation history because of Steve's advocacy of it and his ability to achieve consensus on the issue, but because it doesn't fit the conspiracy theory narrative that seems to be the dominant one here, you never heard it.

I can tell you why it was removed. I asked a few reliable sources around the system.
The local prez from MIAMI and DFW stated that GEO pay was not fair. It seems that they were not happy that the Northeast and the West coast locals would get more than Miami and DFW. Last time I checked those places are more expensive to live than MIA and DFW. That is why it is called GEO pay.
As for my opinion I believe that the Miami Prez was under orders to remove it from higher union officials. I think they call that licking my boots or attaching lips to a certain part of the body.

As far as keeping secrets inside the negotiating committee? Good luck. I get info from various sources from different stations and confirm it all to be the same before I spew it off. Either everyone is lying or everyone is telling the truth. With the TWU they can not differentiate between the two. They believe their own lies to be the truth.

 

[shthslwyr]

Not quite, I've argued and debated here on just about every topic...unlike you who just popped up when your boy Gilboy was spoken of...You seem to have a personal interest in Gilboy.

I guess shouting into an echo box 3600 times gives you the cache here to dismiss the opinions of others based on that fact alone. Venting and making unexamined, unfounded and unfair assertions about someone you don't even know is not argument and debate, it's Fox News.

Gilboy is not my "boy" he is the President of my Local and I will defend him anywhere from anyone who calls him a "company man" because I KNOW differently.

 

[The Goose]

One thing I am certain of:

Any legal action we, as a union group, have available to us is playing into the hands of the enemy - they have planned for this and bought the proper people (Little Jimmy, etc.) to ensure success.

Any non-legit job action we might try is playing into their plans in an even a greater way.

Centerpork has this planned fairly well - all that will bring them down is something making the BOD look like the buffoons they are - what that might be, I haven't a clue.

 

[Bob Owens]

Keep in mind that Steve Gilboy was elected by us to do exactly what he's doing, and was re-elected to keep doing it. We've never heard Steve bad mouth Bob around here, ever; even when Bob has, on more than one occasion, not felt constrained to show the same courtesy.

Why would he? Who in your Local would even know me? I didnt bring his name into this conversation, MTheory did.

Theres a good chance that Hopeful does know Gilboy.

Gilboy made a point of becoming known in our local. Mr Gilboy came to our Local, weeks before our elections campaigning for my opponent and criticizing our Stores Rep (who was also running for office on the same ticket as me). He then came again last January making all sorts of promises, claiming that the August 98 proposal (which he spearheaded the resurrection of this past June) was something thats off the table and wouldnt be brought back. He claimed the only reason they brought it forward then was because oil had spiked to $150/barrel. So dont claim that I havent been courteous to Mr Gilboy, I think I've been more than courteous.

In October 2007, a full fourteen months before Bob ever showed up, regional pay was put on the table for the first time in recent AA/TWU negotiation history because of Steve's advocacy of it and his ability to achieve consensus on the issue, but because it doesn't fit the conspiracy theory narrative that seems to be the dominant one here, you never heard it.

You need to check your facts. Geo pay was part of the last "negotiations" until July of 2001, (2003 wasnt negotiations, it was a shakedown) I have the 2001 books if you want proof. I believe that the formula that was in place then was more realistic than the more recent one. The fact is that many carriers have some sort of GEO pay, Continental offered to expand it to most of their high cost stations just a few weeks ago. Several members of Management have said to me that they recognize that we need to have it but they arent going to offer it (although they did open the contract to give NY boiler mechanics several dollars an hour over what everyone else gets because they couldnt get anybody to take the job).

You claim that I've sad bad things about Gilboy, I dont see it that way. I feel that union people should stand together as much as possible. Fleet service, the Flight Attendants and the Pilots are not the enemy at negotiations, the company is, once the contract is settled we can work together, but until then, they are the enemy. I dont feel that mechanics are the only underpaid workers at AA. I consider Title III Presidents my equal, I give them the same respect that I expect. I dont think that SWA workers screwed up the industry by getting top wages across the board. I dont think the status quo at AA, which to me means further inflation induced paycuts, is acceptable. I've seen Gilboy take a hard line on some issues, and I support him when he does, but I've seen other times when I feel like I'm debating management. You take offense to "company man", well thats how he was introduced to me back in 2000 or so by fellow 563 officers when all the new locals met in Dallas.

 

[shthslwyr]

Why would he?

He would because this is not the first time you've come out with a public statement where you cast yourself in the role of the only honest man left in the process beset on all sides by conniving and obsequious reprobates who must be part of a Company/International/Government cabal, eager to sell their souls and their memberships out for their own private gain and to undermine your clearly more astute understanding of our problems and what is to be done about them.

Who in your Local would even know me?

Bob, that's just way on the high side of disingenuous. You know, and you know that I know that you know who in my Local would even know you.

Theres a good chance that Hopeful does know Gilboy.

Gilboy made a point of becoming known in our local. Mr Gilboy came to our Local, weeks before our elections campaigning for my opponent and criticizing our Stores Rep (who was also running for office on the same ticket as me).

Funny thing about that, Bob. The phone wires here were burning up with those allegations, but went stone cold when the request went out for someone to put a name to them so they could be openly and properly investigated. Sounds like more of the same kind of innuendo and crackpot conspiracy theorist nonsense that you put forward to explain why you were sent from the room last week.

You need to check your facts. Geo pay was part of the last "negotiations" until July of 2001, (2003 wasnt negotiations, it was a shakedown) I have the 2001 books if you want proof.

I will check on that and get back to you; however, it doesn't change the fact about how it survived as long as it did on this go around.

You claim that I've sad bad things about Gilboy, I dont see it that way.

I don't claim it, I proclaim it; you did and you were wrong, period. Of course you don't see it that way, to do so would require you to acknowledge that you were wrong, which you are apparently incapaable of doing.

You take offense to "company man", well thats how he was introduced to me back in 2000 or so by fellow 563 officers when all the new locals met in Dallas.

Aside from the fact that the above statement further detracts from the force of your rhetorical question above about the extent of your association with members of 563, it seems that this is a weak basis for such a strong, and wrong, opinion, given the attenuation of time and circumstances from from then to the present day, and the sense of certainty I'm feeling now about the identity of those "fellow" officers of ten years past, makes me chuckle, because they daily go about here chanelling the spirit of what you and your fellow travellers do on this forum.

 

[DallasConehead]

Dont be so dramatic, the high cost areas were not "stripped of representation". You still have a voice and a vote. I hope that over the past 11 months you developed a good working relationship with Gilboy and Zimmerman. If you did then there should be no problem in getting your point across.

You have known Gilboy since 562 was charterd in 1999, and I know that you supported Zimmerman in his bid for election. Certainly there can be some commonality here?