USAPA Loses DFR Case!/US pilot thread

[hp_fa]

Thanks HP, you blew me way out of the water with that, So am I wrong to assume the appeals court would have to find error with the jury or Judge Wakes ruling based on statutory or case law? There for ordering a new trial? Thanks, I'm confused most of the time, but my level of confusion is at an all time high...........HA

The Judge's rulings only. The appellate courts do not decide "facts", only law. However, besides the "law", they also can rule on evidenciary rulings by the Judge. In other words regarding evidence, did the Judge misapply the Rules of Evidence to a specific ruling?

Thanks for the kind words.

 

[N924PS]

The Judge's rulings only. The appellate courts do not decide "facts", only law. However, besides the "law", they also can rule on evidenciary rulings by the Judge. In other words regarding evidence, did the Judge misapply the Rules of Evidence to a specific ruling?

Thanks for the kind words.

No matter the verdict, the respective law firms should have steady income from their clients for another year or two.

Thanks for taking your time in the courtroom and at the keyboard providing an unbiased view of the proceedings.

 

[nic4us]

My barber has magazines older than that still laying around in his barbershop.

And I am sure many of our grandchildren were born prior to that date, but LCC had no employees prior to that date.

 

[oscarjazz]

After reading the last transcript I now know what the Rakestraw case was about and why it is different than the USAPA case. As I read it, the Rakestraw case changed the seniority of scabs and the purpose of this was to make it tougher on scabs. Punishing scabs helps the union because a full scale strike provides power to the union and therefore makes it easier for the union to negotiate better wages and benefit for their members.

In this case, USAPA is stating that the legitimate purpose of the union is to satisfy the majority East pilots that lost their arbitration case. Since they were upset, they would not vote on a new contract. Therefore, we have to satisfy the majority by discriminating against the minority. To me, this is a classic violation of the duty of fair representation.

I predict that Am West pilot have a very good chance of prevailing in this case. The tough part is what happens next? I think the central question is does the East have any decent leadership that will allow them to find a way to more pay and benefits while using the Nicolau list? The ancillary question is will the West pilots be big enough to make some concession to the East pilots. I understand the hard feelings, they are well deserved, but right now I think we are into the cutting off the nose to spite your face phase.

Up to now, I haven't seen it. It will take some real leaders to step up on both sides.

 

[cubfan]

I predict that Am West pilot have a very good chance of prevailing in this case. The tough part is what happens next? I think the central question is does the East have any decent leadership that will allow them to find a way to more pay and benefits while using the Nicolau list? The ancillary question is will the West pilots be big enough to make some concession to the East pilots. I understand the hard feelings, they are well deserved, but right now I think we are into the cutting off the nose to spite your face phase.

Up to now, I haven't seen it. It will take some real leaders to step up on both sides.

I feel your correct with your feelings, alot of scars on both sides. If either side can't swallow some pride, we will be all doomed.

 

[Metroyet]

In this case, USAPA is stating that the legitimate purpose of the union is to satisfy the majority East pilots that lost their arbitration case.

You have a very good grasp on the situation. However, this statement above was regurgitated over and over and in my opinion is completely wrong. The East didn't "LOSE" the arbitration. The seniority integration was determined to be fair by Nic. and the neutrals. The West lost plenty of % as well. This wasn't a win/lose situation and nobody entered into the process looking to "WIN". It simply is what it is and the East used their majority to subvert/pervert the system. Hopefully the Jury followed Marty Harpers Eloquent, simple closing.
'

 

[oscarjazz]

You have a very good grasp on the situation. However, this statement above was regurgitated over and over and in my opinion is completely wrong. The East didn't "LOSE" the arbitration. The seniority integration was determined to be fair by Nic. and the neutrals. The West lost plenty of % as well. This wasn't a win/lose situation and nobody entered into the process looking to "WIN". It simply is what it is and the East used their majority to subvert/pervert the system. Hopefully the Jury followed Marty Harpers Eloquent, simple closing.
'

You are correct, I am sorry for misstating that. If you follow a fair and equitable process the result is fair and equitable.

 

[Tiger 1050]

After reading the last transcript I now know what the Rakestraw case was about and why it is different than the USAPA case. As I read it, the Rakestraw case changed the seniority of scabs and the purpose of this was to make it tougher on scabs. Punishing scabs helps the union because a full scale strike provides power to the union and therefore makes it easier for the union to negotiate better wages and benefit for their members.

In this case, USAPA is stating that the legitimate purpose of the union is to satisfy the majority East pilots that lost their arbitration case. Since they were upset, they would not vote on a new contract. Therefore, we have to satisfy the majority by discriminating against the minority. To me, this is a classic violation of the duty of fair representation.

I predict that Am West pilot have a very good chance of prevailing in this case. The tough part is what happens next? I think the central question is does the East have any decent leadership that will allow them to find a way to more pay and benefits while using the Nicolau list? The ancillary question is will the West pilots be big enough to make some concession to the East pilots. I understand the hard feelings, they are well deserved, but right now I think we are into the cutting off the nose to spite your face phase.

Up to now, I haven't seen it. It will take some real leaders to step up on both sides.

Regardless of some of the semantics others may point out I have to say I applaud your candor. With the wolves on this board looking for easy prey it takes a big man to say what you said. Thank you. You do get it.

Regarding hardened positions etc., well let's take it day by day. I do see a future where this will be a grand story to relay to others following us in their career but for now let's lay low. Like you said it will take real leadership at USAPA or whoever our CBA is to pull this group together. It can be done. It will just take the right people to do it.

Good day to you.

 

[cubfan]

Regardless of some of the semantics others may point out I have to say I applaud your candor. With the wolves on this board looking for easy prey it takes a big man to say what you said. Thank you. You do get it.

Regarding hardened positions etc., well let's take it day by day. I do see a future where this will be a grand story to relay to others following us in their career but for now let's lay low. Like you said it will take real leadership at USAPA or whoever our CBA is to pull this group together. It can be done. It will just take the right people to do it.

Good day to you.

well said

 

[aquagreen73s]

It's over.

Now we can move on.

 

[Tiger 1050]

OH YEAH BABY!!!!!!!!!!

 

[cubfan]

OH YEAH BABY!!!!!!!!!!

where can you read the verdict

 

[Elevation]

YES

Jury came back before 11:00 am with guilty verdict. Judge now is discussing the remedy.

 

[etops1]

Thank you. As an east f/a all i can say is. Can we move on now???

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

where can you read the verdict

Today at the Sandra Day O’Connor federal court house in PHX room 504. A nine member jury found USAPA liable in the Addington case. This is a Duty of Fair Representation law suit.

It has been a long journey to this point. But we now have a final resolution to our arbitrated seniority. We have come to the end of our disagreement.

Many pilots have been waiting for this answer. The time has arrived to set aside our differences and to now join the legal bargaining unit for US Airways. It is time to become a member in good standing in USAPA.

The arbitration award was released over two years ago. Even though some may feel that the west has won. The reality is no one has won anything. In fact we have all lost along the way. That is because we are right back to where we were two years ago. We must put the past behind us and move forward together. Together to get a leading contract. Together to fight management and get the improvements that we all deserve.
We ask you to continue to be the polite professionals that you have been throughout this process.



Xxxx Yyyyyyyy
PHX communications Chairman